0.25 Discussion thread

[monophonic]

It could also be completely the other way round. Fail too much, and you get demoted to a pilot. You no longer can choose your contracts or missions, instead you're just given a predesigned rocket and a job to do. Succeed in enough of these and you may get your manager's desk back, along with some advice to choose more carefully what you try to accomplish in the future.

The 90% groundwork could be the system to decide you've failed too much, and you would notice it through your available contracts list becoming almost empty. You might also see some already completed scripted contracts ("make altitude record" and "achieve orbit" kind of contracts) coming back. Then 0.26 would just add the predesigned rockets and dialog explaining what you now must do, making the new system visible and part of the gameplay.

This might even be the starting mode, in full career mode at least. You have to show you got what it takes before you're given the go ahead to have at it.

Of course, it could be something completely different. In fact I think it's quite likely it is something completely different.

[NWDogg]

Don't worry, no offense taken. Above is not my wish, certainly. It is simply a (perhaps under-researched) prediction as to what the new systems in question could be. I came to the theory above by looking at the direction KSP development has been moving towards, and combining my interpretation of that with the information we have available so far. The auto-pilot mode wouldn't necessarily have to be a requisite if you lose, but simply an option...and also a separate game-mode. I wouldn't be too thrilled for it, but it might appeal to a broader audience.

That said though, I think it is more likely than not that the game will see more advances towards the management end, rather than the cool stuff we (the current playerbase) want to have in the game. I hope we'll get new aerodynamics and re-entry heating and the like, but I'm sure the devs want to make sure the average 'tycoon-game' player has all the tools they need to enjoy the game as well.

[Hannu]

My guess is that this system will have something to do with going bankrupt, or failing too many contracts, or something. I would bet that if you end up failing too many missions, or run out of funds, that an 'auto-pilot' mode will activate. In this mode (coming in 0.26), you will only have to worry about managing your contracts and funds, hiring Kerbals, and other 'Administration' stuff. You can leave the technical stuff like flying to space or landing on the Mun for the Kerbals to handle themselves.

I hope that Squad do not put huge amount of work to make player's failing experience smoother. If you fail, it is easy to start a new game, maybe watch some tutorials from youtube and try again. And who want to play KSP as resource management game? There are much more interesting games in that area. KSP should concentrate to building and flying spaceships and administration and economic resources should have a small role.

[Sky_walker]

;1379297']^^^ This will be disastrous!

I do not want to be too offensive' date=' but losing is earning experience. Player must not be protected from losing. [/quote']

So very much this.

All the time they spent working on a current funds system was IMHO a waste of time. It's nothing more than aesthetics. Funds are non-factor in a decision making process while playing the game. Science mode was also a waste of time made only because some people pissed their pants when noticed that their beloved game might change (the events before 0.24 release leading up to the announcement of Science mode were IMHO ridiculously stupid)

;1379297']I personally think that it can be some preparations for either aerodynamics overhaul' date=' or some preparations for more planets, which were announced long time ago.[/quote']

Considering the amount of parts they're working on? I would hope for aerodynamics too. Though it might be anything (eg. they signed a deal with some other space agency and we'll get another parts pack like the NASA one?).

I hope we'll get new aerodynamics and re-entry heating and the like, but I'm sure the devs want to make sure the average 'tycoon-game' player has all the tools they need to enjoy the game as well.

Wait... what? It makes no sense. How exactly did you come up with a conclusion that tycoon-game player will not enjoy aerodynamics or re-entry heating?

If anything - it'll be exactly the opposite. I'm a tycoon player myself (or at least - want to be with my self-imposed rules, cause BS going on when game is flooding you with money is totally crippling in trying to do that) and having nose cones that do nothing but cripple your designs along with lack of any penalty for improper reentry while you try to do your best to get it right is IMHO a huge problem with a game as it discourages people from doing a logically optimal designs.

More realism == BETTER gameplay for tycoon players.

NOT worse.

And if 0.26 in deed will bring something to improve the situation than I'm sure anyone wanting to manage his own space program will be happy to see that logic finally starts working with KSP.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Sky_walker

[MisterDoubleSevens]

Nevermind, didn't see the Realism thread, missed a page of this one and didn't see the realism debate (was supposed to have) ended in this thread, you know the drill.

Edited August 28, 2014 by MisterDoubleSevens
Whoops.

[cantab]

It could also be completely the other way round. Fail too much, and you get demoted to a pilot. You no longer can choose your contracts or missions, instead you're just given a predesigned rocket and a job to do.

If KSP2 is released as an MMO this would be lulzy.

But as for this new system, I'm assuming it means .25 will have a lot of "back end" stuff that the game won't really use but a future release will take advantage of it. It's like how the game already records who the first kerbals to orbit or land on each body were, but never exposes this to the player.

[Yakuzi]

But as for this new system, I'm assuming it means .25 will have a lot of "back end" stuff that the game won't really use but a future release will take advantage of it. It's like how the game already records who the first kerbals to orbit or land on each body were, but never exposes this to the player.

I think 0.25 will bring more than just "back end stuff". Let's have a look what has been mentioned in the dev blogs and Kerbal Podcast so far:

0.25

1 Admin building with slider bars, allows for more interaction of currencies (i.e. credits, tech and rep)

2 Integration of Spaceplane Plus mod by Porkjet

3 EDIT: Updated navball with Radial, Normal, and Maneuver point direction indicator icons (thx Alshain, pls note the caps )

4 Largest 3D asset endeavour ever undertaken in KSP, currently 10% of 64 aesthetically congruous models done (this might not make it into 0.25, no details on exactly what is modelled/remodelled)

5 Menu that allows for crew transfer menu without EVA

6 Difficulty options panel at game mode start

7 Flight logs of vessels and Kerbals

8 Feature 1 (undisclosed); affects gameplay and will be talked about next week

9 Feature 2 (undisclosed); affects gameplay unless you play really well. Has not been addressed by any mod to date. Will be discussed during QA.

0.26

1 Feature 3 (undisclosed); based on the feature 2 framework provided in 0.25. This will be a "huge feature" and "gamechanging like contracts".

So quite a number of additions in 0.25, I’m still somewhat hopeful Feature 1 is an updated aerodynamics system. No idea what feature 2 and 3 may encompass though, but I doubt it’s a “game over†mode.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Yakuzi

[Sky_walker]

4 Largest 3D asset endeavour ever undertaken in KSP, currently 10% of 64 aesthetically congruous models done (this might not make it into 0.25, no details on exactly what is modelled/remodelled)

I thought it was confirmed NOT to be in 0.25.

So quite a number of additions in 0.25, I’m still somewhat hopeful Feature 1 is an updated aerodynamics system.

I don't have any hope to see it in 0.25. If anything - 0.26. It's such a huge change that it might take them a whole patch cycle to get it into the game.

No idea what feature 2 and 3 may encompass though, but I doubt it’s a “game over†mode.

Hehe, funny, cause I thought exact opposite - that one of these features to come in 0.25 might be a game-over to be enabled in difficulty settings. I think that the release of 0.24 proven beyond shadow of doubt that omitting it from the game was a mistake.

[Alshain]

3 Enhanced NavBall

This is inaccurate. They are adding Radial, Normal, and Maneuver point direction indicator icons ONLY. This is not Enhanced NavBall as the mod does much more. If your merely trying to say navball enhancements, watch the caps at the very least or better choose descriptors that don't confuse with the mod. People are going to get their hopes up that Enhanced NavBall is being integrated and that simply isn't the case.

Here is a comparison from the mod's features. The ones in green are going to be in stock, confirmed. The ones in blue are an alternate implementation that will be in stock (as far as we know). The ones in red won't be in stock, as far as we know.

Enhanced navball adds the following vectors to the navball:

- Radial +/-

- Normal +/-

- Anti-Maneuver node

- Ghosting on Prograde/Retrograde in Surface and Orbital mode

- Ghosting on the Maneuver node

- Sliding/scaling of navball

Intended features:

- Customisation of displayed vectors

- High-Contrast navball option

Edited August 28, 2014 by Alshain

[Yakuzi]

This is inaccurate. They are adding Radial, Normal, and Maneuver point direction indicator icons ONLY. This is not Enhanced NavBall as the mod does much more. If your merely trying to say navball enhancements, watch the caps at the very least or better choose descriptors that don't confuse with the mod. People are going to get their hopes up that Enhanced NavBall is being integrated and that simply isn't the case.

Ah yes, you're absolutely right. I sorta copied what Maxmaps said in the Podcast and will modify this in my previous post.

[Yakuzi]

I thought it was confirmed NOT to be in 0.25.

From what I understood it was a maybe for 0.25, but most likely not.

I don't have any hope to see it in 0.25. If anything - 0.26. It's such a huge change that it might take them a whole patch cycle to get it into the game.

I'm not implying that inclusion of an updated aerodynamic system for 0.25 is likely, however, since SQUAD is incorporating SP+ and mentioned another "gamechanging feature" for this update, I'm enjoying one more week of hopeful speculative ignorance.

Hehe, funny, cause I thought exact opposite - that one of these features to come in 0.25 might be a game-over to be enabled in difficulty settings. I think that the release of 0.24 proven beyond shadow of doubt that omitting it from the game was a mistake.

Yes, those were my original thoughts as well. But then I wouldn't know how this feature would be the framework for the "really really huge" feature being added in 0.26 (that no mod has done and is a big as contracts). Unless it'd be a Sims kinda thing for Kerbals, then again, there's a mod for that.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Yakuzi

[EnderSpace]

i think you need to see main page

UPDATE!

First Look At Administer Facility

[HafCoJoe]

Here I just listened and summarized in order what was announced. I see lists already made, but I'll post mine too. From my post in Devnotes:

There wasn't much actually announced about the admin building. They talked about mk3 parts and spaceplane plus and basically just said there was an admin building. They did share some information on it though. Hold on a sec and I'll find it .

Info shared in the KerbalCast interview with Maxmaps a approximate order (kerbal_Podcast_016):

2:00 - "Almost as big as .24 currencies". Maxmaps says there are the three currencies (Reputation, Science, Money) and there is no cohesiveness or interplay between them and that's "not particularly cool".

2:40 - The admin building includes new systems that makes your play style more customizable. It adds a lot of interaction between the 3 currencies.

3:00 - The admin building is mostly the focus of .25

3:15 - "There are 2 new systems being added that are going to modify how you play" - one announced next week, one announced at QA. "It's something that no mod whatsoever has done to this point" - it wasn't even considered anywhere. You won't run in to it if you play really well.

4:00 - It's somewhere around 90% of the framework for a big feature going to be added to .26.

4:15 - Helipad is basically just to land on.

5:00 - talks about their beginnings in career

6:00 - intetragion of spaceplane+. Hugo built a "whole bunch" of mk3 parts, and SpacePlane+ is added.

End of the first interview segment and the majority of announcements,

29:20 - Contracts with modders and updating of rules - Asking for donations OUTSIDE of KSP is fine, no "adds", make it easy to say no to data gathering. Keep gathered data closed. Data gathering would be fine if they knew everyone was going to play nice, but they don't and they don't want excuses or possibilities of things going wrong.

48:00 - About an end game goal - There is a signed document of what it should look like at the end, but they have lots of wiggle room and room for extra things added. (More or less.)

54:00 - Maxmaps background with career and joining SQUAD! Just listen I'm not summarizing this.

That's about it. Hope this helps! Please tell me if I missed anything of importance and I'll add it.

[Rowsdower]

I'm going to be posting up more reminders about this on the rest of our channels, but be sure to watch Squadcast tomorrow. Max will be following through on last week's mention of an "info dump" about 0.25.

[Sky_walker]

i think you need to see main page

UPDATE!

First Look At Administer Facility

1. No need to use large fonts. We can see a regular one just fine.

2. I don't see anything with that title on a main page - be it blog, forum, or KSP website.

There was that image that was posted days ago:

But nothing new since then. Care to point me in a right direction?

[EnderSpace]

1. No need to use large fonts. We can see a regular one just fine.

2. I don't see anything with that title on a main page - be it blog, forum, or KSP website.

There was that image that was posted days ago:

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/30e868319422f17aaad812b65b4ea6fc/tumblr_inline_naqfs9CWkN1rr2wit.jpg

But nothing new since then. Care to point me in a right direction?

lol i mean first page

sorry for late posting

[Sky_walker]

lol i mean first page

sorry for late posting

Oh... I get it now Hehehehe

Would you mind quoting the post by Avera9eJoe with the KerbalCast interview summary in a first post of this topic? I think it might be really helpful for future reference.

[HafCoJoe]

I'm going to be posting up more reminders about this on the rest of our channels, but be sure to watch Squadcast tomorrow. Max will be following through on last week's mention of an "info dump" about 0.25.

I just saw that on Twitter! Here's his tweet. I shall keep my schedule at that time wide open.

Oh and EnderSpace, I don't think the EVA suits or going to be in game. They're for cinematics only (for now?). Your reference seems like they're going to be in-game.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Avera9eJoe

[Cal'Mihe]

I think the "feature-you-won't-see-much-unless-you-play-well" feature is going to be an instant replay of the mission in case of catastrophic failure. Possibly with some added analysis features such as seeing structural stresses / temperature stresses, etc.

This then to tie in to an archive feature in the next update where you can keep saved footage and mission logs

Systems to "downgrade" your level of involvement in the game seems too artificial to me.

[EnderSpace]

I just saw that on Twitter! Here's his tweet. I shall keep my schedule at that time wide open.

Oh and EnderSpace, I don't think the EVA suits or going to be in game. They're for cinematics only (for now?). Your reference seems like they're going to be in-game.

see the wiki , planned , its marked by blue and tell new eva (Already in cinematic )

[Sky_walker]

see the wiki , planned , its marked by blue and tell new eva (Already in cinematic )

Wiki is something anyone can edit. It was already pointed out that Wiki is wrong.

That suit was made purely for cinematic. We won't see it in the game.

[tntristan12]

I think the "feature-you-won't-see-much-unless-you-play-well" feature is going to be an instant replay of the mission in case of catastrophic failure. Possibly with some added analysis features such as seeing structural stresses / temperature stresses' date=' etc.

This then to tie in to an archive feature in the next update where you can keep saved footage and mission logs.[/quote']

That... Would actually be pretty awesome!

[Franklin]

I think 0.25 will bring more than just "back end stuff". Let's have a look what has been mentioned in the dev blogs and Kerbal Podcast so far:

0.25

...

9 Feature 2 (undisclosed); affects gameplay unless you play really well. Has not been addressed by any mod to date. Will be discussed during QA.

0.26

1 Feature 3 (undisclosed); based on the feature 2 framework provided in 0.25. This will be a "huge feature" and "gamechanging like contracts".

Honestly, given the current workload elements, the "huge, gamechanging feature" planned for .26 in my mind, especially given the inclusion of an administration building in .25, seems most likely to be Employee Management. Hire, fire, payroll, train, etc. The superfluous astronaut complex has been neglected and collecting dust for a while, so it only makes sense that's the next major gameplay element to get overhauled. Maybe the other large models are training elements and facilities? But that's more speculation than deduction.

I don't know why everyone's speculating on left-field elements like an atmospheric overhaul, more planets or multiplayer, since those topics have barely even been broached yet and have so far been un-marked hopefuls.

It'll be a fleshing of the astronaut/employee management elements, I'm almost certain.

[tater]

You have to wonder what courage and stupidity are for (forgive me if this is old news, but I have no idea) other than deciding how to animate the faces during scary stuff (concern vs stupid glee). At some point you'd expect modifiers for something based on astronaut skill. Dunno what, though (getting more science based on lack of stupidity, per perhaps more in some dangerous missions based on courage?).

[timsfitz]

You have to wonder what courage and stupidity are for (forgive me if this is old news, but I have no idea) other than deciding how to animate the faces during scary stuff (concern vs stupid glee). At some point you'd expect modifiers for something based on astronaut skill. Dunno what, though (getting more science based on lack of stupidity, per perhaps more in some dangerous missions based on courage?).

Well the Kerbals aren't flying the ship's, the player is. I don't think there will be any changes based on Kerbal stats.