Kerbodyne SSTO Division: Omnibus Thread

[Wanderfound]

BTW: I did a long-range test today. If refuelled after launch in LKO, the Cacafeugo with no drop tanks has enough juice to reach Duna, but not enough to land. So, one or two drop tanks should do for a one-way trip, perhaps half a dozen for a return trip.

Also: notice the ventral stabilisers on the Infusion Corsair? Not decorative. Neither is the anhedral on the main wings.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Wanderfound

[MainSailor]

Just made a potentially nice jumbo cargo hauler with the MkIV parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/101699-0-25-Mark-IV-Spaceplane-System-%282-5m-aircraft-fuselage%29) but my game reliably craps itself once I try to launch the ship. Poot.

Any chance you'd release this and/or future Mark IV crafts? Between Farseer and Wedgetail I can bring lots of fuel/1.25m cargo up to orbit, but I'm still launching 2.5m+ parts on conventional rockets. I'd love to be able to fly 2.5m stuff up without resorting to my usual B9 overbuilt monstrosities.

[Wanderfound]

Any chance you'd release this and/or future Mark IV crafts? Between Farseer and Wedgetail I can bring lots of fuel/1.25m cargo up to orbit, but I'm still launching 2.5m+ parts on conventional rockets. I'd love to be able to fly 2.5m stuff up without resorting to my usual B9 overbuilt monstrosities.

I set up a minimum-mod install to do some Mark IV stuff. I had a nice ramp-equipped rover carrier...but for some reason the rear wheels would drop through the floor of the bay when undocked. But I've got a nice long-range MkIV jobbie with a parasite tug/tanker nearly ready to go.

Incidentally, a MkIV lifter would be perfect for delivering 2.5m droptanks for a Cacafeugo Duna trip...

[Einarr]

Don't suppose you could be convinced to come up with some designs utilizing B9 parts?

[Wanderfound]

Don't suppose you could be convinced to come up with some designs utilizing B9 parts?

My laptop can't handle it, unfortunately. My game crashes twice an hour as is.

[Wanderfound]

Teaser:

[Wanderfound]

Kerboduna part 1:

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/story

[MainSailor]

Kerboduna part 1:

Wow...double row of LFO tanks rather than the triple hull fuselage we've become accustomed to. Just wanted to carry more fuel?

[Engineer of Stuff]

Kerboduna part 1:

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/story

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/screenshot444_zps938da020.jpg

Ooh. That thing can go far.

[Wanderfound]

Wow...double row of LFO tanks rather than the triple hull fuselage we've become accustomed to. Just wanted to carry more fuel?

Yup.

Touched down on Duna, the tanks are still well over half full.

[Jovus]

Reporting back on the Kerbodyne Gull Utility:

It flies really nicely. (surpise!) I'm using a modified version that replaces the cargo bay with a short cargo bay and a crew cabin. (Aside: Good job, Wanderfound! I was able to simply plug-n-play the new parts with no changes to the airframe other than a 5-degree dihedral on the wingtips.)

My one point of less-than-stellar performance is that, despite a nearly optimal flight profile (1500m/s at 30km before switching to rockets) I hit orbit with ~200m/s. That's enough for some careful orbital maneuvering, but I tend to prefer at least 400m/s - honestly, I was hoping to get multiple things done in LKO, not just dropping off a crew at my space station. I'm a bit leery of putting an actual cargo in the original design, given how thin this margin is.

I haven't yet brought it back down; I'll report when I do.

[Wanderfound]

Kerboduna part 1:

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/story

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/screenshot444_zps938da020.jpg

Kerboduna part II: http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Kerboduna/Kerboduna%20II/story

[Wanderfound]

Reporting back on the Kerbodyne Gull Utility:

It flies really nicely. (surpise!) I'm using a modified version that replaces the cargo bay with a short cargo bay and a crew cabin. (Aside: Good job, Wanderfound! I was able to simply plug-n-play the new parts with no changes to the airframe other than a 5-degree dihedral on the wingtips.)

My one point of less-than-stellar performance is that, despite a nearly optimal flight profile (1500m/s at 30km before switching to rockets) I hit orbit with ~200m/s. That's enough for some careful orbital maneuvering, but I tend to prefer at least 400m/s - honestly, I was hoping to get multiple things done in LKO, not just dropping off a crew at my space station. I'm a bit leery of putting an actual cargo in the original design, given how thin this margin is.

I haven't yet brought it back down; I'll report when I do.

The Gull is about as short-ranged as you can be while still being useful. It's basically a De Minimus with bigger wings and a passenger cabin (this is my ship for non-Invasion scale crew transfer, BTW). As the name implies, De Minimus is not a ship overburdened with unnecessary weight. Adding more weight and drag did not increase its range, and the beefed up wings (in both size and mass; it was designed as a novice-proof early-game utility ship, although it's now occurring to me that perhaps the fuel margins are a bit too fine for that...) on the Gull aggravate that problem.

But it should have enough for an LKO rendezvous if flown in a shallow profile with maximum possible use made of air-breathing thrust. It's designed to work in concert with a refuelling station based at 75,000m or so. Hit that, refuel and you've got plenty for near-Kerbin maneouvres; combine that with a monoprop tank and some thrusters on the satellite and you can hit any Kerbin orbit you choose.

If you're after a similarly easy handling light cargo jet with longer range, have a look at the Skua: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1515151&viewfull=1#post1515151

A similar conversion to half bay/passenger cabin would work here.

Or, use a De Minimus; plenty of juice left in orbit. This one is probably cargo or passengers, though:

That one is a bit sportier in the handling, however.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Wanderfound

[ExplorerKlatt]

I love your craft they fly like a dream. Used the Atlas to deliver a pair of life support drones to my interplanetary ship. Unfortunately, I lost the elevators on the tail during ascent and landing became a near impossibility. Kept over or under shooting the ksc and ended up ditching in the ocean. The pilots survived thanks to VNG parachutes.

[MainSailor]

I love your craft they fly like a dream. Used the Atlas to deliver a pair of life support drones to my interplanetary ship. Unfortunately, I lost the elevators on the tail during ascent and landing became a near impossibility. Kept over or under shooting the ksc and ended up ditching in the ocean. The pilots survived thanks to VNG parachutes.

By any chance are you using KJR? I'm having a heck of a time with it enabled even when I turn aero failures off in FAR.

[ExplorerKlatt]

No I don't use KJR.

[Hodo]

By any chance are you using KJR? I'm having a heck of a time with it enabled even when I turn aero failures off in FAR.

You are going to fast to low that is your problem. I have KJR and it really isn't needed with FAR. I have pulled 13.5Gs at mach 1 at less than 5km altitude. If you build it right you wont have parts fly off due to pressure.

To overcome the dynamic pressure issue you increase the mass/strength of the wing or control surfaces. If you are still having problems with parts flying off look at your craft and make sure you aren't sticking strong parts on light flimsy parts.

[MainSailor]

You are going to fast to low that is your problem. I have KJR and it really isn't needed with FAR. I have pulled 13.5Gs at mach 1 at less than 5km altitude. If you build it right you wont have parts fly off due to pressure.

To overcome the dynamic pressure issue you increase the mass/strength of the wing or control surfaces. If you are still having problems with parts flying off look at your craft and make sure you aren't sticking strong parts on light flimsy parts.

http://i.imgur.com/948FLnw.jpg

Well no, I mean I've had this happen even on Wander's planes, sometimes even right at takeoff. Less than 200 m/s.

It seems like it might be a conflict between KJR and the PID tuner. As soon as I uninstall either one of them I have absolutely no issues.

[Hodo]

Well no, I mean I've had this happen even on Wander's planes, sometimes even right at takeoff. Less than 200 m/s.

It seems like it might be a conflict between KJR and the PID tuner. As soon as I uninstall either one of them I have absolutely no issues.

I run KJR and I had the PID tuner, now I use the Pilot Assistant Tool, with the PID tuner in it.

I havent had that issue. check the mass of the parts comming off in the SPH.

[Wanderfound]

I love your craft they fly like a dream. Used the Atlas to deliver a pair of life support drones to my interplanetary ship. Unfortunately, I lost the elevators on the tail during ascent and landing became a near impossibility. Kept over or under shooting the ksc and ended up ditching in the ocean. The pilots survived thanks to VNG parachutes.

What exactly were you doing at the time you tore the elevators off? The Atlas is towards the more fragile end of the spectrum (the wing strength is tweaked down a bit to save weight), but it should be able to cope with a normal ascent to orbit.

It is a fast one, though; if you fly level at low altitude and full throttle it'll rapidly generate dangerously high dynamic pressures. Try to gain a few thousand metres of altitude before going supersonic.

[ExplorerKlatt]

Probably going to fast and pitched up a little too hard. I'm still getting used to FAR. I have since made several successful launches to resupply my interplanetary ships. I use tacls so this happens after every trip.

[Wanderfound]

Altitude does have a major role to play: at 10,000m you can casually do things that are suicidal at 500m. With anything except for the small aerobatic stuff, be very cautious of the combination of low altitude and supersonic speeds; climb at a speed-limiting pitch until at least 5,000m, and don't come back below 5,000m until you're approaching subsonic.

[Jovus]

Gull on descent and incidentals:

The Kerbodyne Gull variant I flew handled my standard descent protocol very well. (It involves flying around half the planet bopping between 25-30km.)

I noticed that when you get very low and very slow, it just keeps flying. Probably has a lot to do with its wing configuration, but I ended up doing multiple circles of the runway at 300m altitude going ~70m/s. (I could have landed on the paddock, but I wanted to hit the runway.) All in all a very flyable plane, though a rank novice might have trouble with overcorrection at low altitude.

In the SPH, however, I discovered that there were no flaps set up, and that all the control surfaces hadn't had their masses tweaked down from the default 1. Also, the tailplane was set at what I consider a heavy 0.5 (I use 0.3 for tails, since they don't experience as much force as lifting bits.)

Congratulations to Wanderfound on another successful design.

[Wanderfound]

Glad you liked it. Gull was done fairly early after the introduction of the mass tweakable; I was still getting the hang of it.

I usually land at about 100m/s, BTW.

[Hodo]

Altitude does have a major role to play: at 10,000m you can casually do things that are suicidal at 500m. With anything except for the small aerobatic stuff, be very cautious of the combination of low altitude and supersonic speeds; climb at a speed-limiting pitch until at least 5,000m, and don't come back below 5,000m until you're approaching subsonic.

To continue on Wanderfounds point here.

This monstrosity was able to break Mach 1.5 at nearly sea level and was still able to pull up and climb to over 20km and return and land.

It may have broke mach 1.6 if it were clean without weapon pylons.

The F-117 Vulture there has its wing mass set to 1.25 I think and is not that big of a craft and actually 62 parts by itself. But if I did a sharp, without fine controls on climb the craft turns to confetti at those speeds.