FAR jet engines are seriously nerfed.

[Pds314]

I've been trying to make SSTOs in FAR and I've made a discovery:

0.14.1.1v------------------------------------

Features:

Ensured 0.24.2 compatibility

Tweaks:

Un-nerfed air-breathers in overall thrust and thrust curves

Bugfixes:

Fixed some issues where FARControlSys GUIs could be wonky

Apparently, they didn't get un-nerfed. Jets provide exactly no thrust and don't even make sound above 1800 m/s surface speed. FAR machingbird now just got a whole lot less interesting. FAR SSTOs are now much more difficult, and nuclear ones are all-but-impossible to make good.

Anyone know if this is a bug or if Ferram4 intends to keep it this way? This may affect whether I can use FAR to make decent SSTOs.

[Wanderfound]

I've been trying to make SSTOs in FAR and I've made a discovery:

0.14.1.1v------------------------------------

Features:

Ensured 0.24.2 compatibility

Tweaks:

Un-nerfed air-breathers in overall thrust and thrust curves

Bugfixes:

Fixed some issues where FARControlSys GUIs could be wonky

Apparently, they didn't get un-nerfed. Jets provide exactly no thrust and don't even make sound above 1800 m/s surface speed. FAR machingbird now just got a whole lot less interesting. FAR SSTOs are now much more difficult, and nuclear ones are all-but-impossible to make good.

Anyone know if this is a bug or if Ferram4 intends to keep it this way? This may affect whether I can use FAR to make decent SSTOs.

They did get denerfed, just not entirely. FAR originally cut them to 33% thrust, then beefed them back up to 50% when too many folks complained. Jet engines in stock are extremely overpowered, and the lower drag at altitude in FAR exacerbated the problem. As well as chopping overall power, Ferram redid the speed/thrust curves to make them more realistic.

Turbojets shouldn't be able to beat Mach 6; that's scramjet country. There are limits to how fast you can run a jet engine before it blows up. And, yes, it's staying this way; Ferram has strongly stated that he's not reversing the decision any further.

It is still easy to make highly effective spaceplanes in FAR, and it is still possible to get an air-breather over Mach 5. You don't need hypersonic speeds; Mach 4.5 at 30,000m is enough to reach orbit with less than 60 seconds of rocket power. You just have to give a bit more attention to piloting and streamlining now. Before, you could bully through bad aerodynamic design with pure thrust; that is no longer easy to do.

If you want a demo, go play with some of the planes at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1353924

The Velociraptor in particular is ridiculously quick. The main issue when flying it is in trying to avoid going too fast in the lower atmosphere, because you'll destroy the airframe due to excessive dynamic pressure.

Also see http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90354-Spaceplane-speed-challenge-shortest-elapsed-time-from-runway-to-orbit

Even with the nerf, you can get from runway to orbit in well under four minutes.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Wanderfound

[technion]

that's scramjet country.

I feel suddenly obligated to hope above hopes for a scramjet mod.

[Wanderfound]

I feel suddenly obligated to hope above hopes for a scramjet mod.

Google and ye shall find.

No idea if they're any good, though; I haven't used any myself.

[Hodo]

I've been trying to make SSTOs in FAR and I've made a discovery:

0.14.1.1v------------------------------------

Features:

Ensured 0.24.2 compatibility

Tweaks:

Un-nerfed air-breathers in overall thrust and thrust curves

Bugfixes:

Fixed some issues where FARControlSys GUIs could be wonky

Apparently, they didn't get un-nerfed. Jets provide exactly no thrust and don't even make sound above 1800 m/s surface speed. FAR machingbird now just got a whole lot less interesting. FAR SSTOs are now much more difficult, and nuclear ones are all-but-impossible to make good.

Anyone know if this is a bug or if Ferram4 intends to keep it this way? This may affect whether I can use FAR to make decent SSTOs.

Yes FAR jets got nerfed, and people still complain that FAR use is overpowered. But these are people who think a brick with a mainsail on the bottom is a functional like real rockets and asparagus launchers with 14 stages just to get to an orbit of 75km.

It is still very possible to make a function SSTO space plane or tail sitter. I have made a few already, haven't made much lately been busy with WARGAME:Red Dragon. But I have made a few that use SABREs and RAPIERs and a few that use jets and rockets.

EDIT- Here is a couple that I have made that work using FAR.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Javascript is disabled. View full album

EDIT2-

Here is one that is completely stock.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

It uses a turbojet and to tiny rockets to achieve orbit, so it can still be done.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Hodo

[Pds314]

Yes FAR jets got nerfed, and people still complain that FAR use is overpowered. But these are people who think a brick with a mainsail on the bottom is a functional like real rockets and asparagus launchers with 14 stages just to get to an orbit of 75km.

It is still very possible to make a function SSTO space plane or tail sitter. I have made a few already, haven't made much lately been busy with WARGAME:Red Dragon. But I have made a few that use SABREs and RAPIERs and a few that use jets and rockets.

EDIT- Here is a couple that I have made that work using FAR.

http://imgur.com/a/i60z8

http://imgur.com/a/5bj0i

I see. Well, it looks like the days of the turbojets-to-orbit spaceplane are over. Time to re-learn how to make SSTOs that need an actual amount of rocket thrust.

Also, I just realized, this makes orbital lift much less valuable, as your plane will always have a positive weight exceeding 20% of its original weight, likely exceeding 30%.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Pds314

[Hodo]

I see. Well, it looks like the days of the turbojets-to-orbit spaceplane are over. Time to re-learn how to make SSTOs that need an actual amount of rocket thrust.

Also, I just realized, this makes orbital lift much less valuable, as your plane will always have a positive weight exceeding 20% of its original weight, likely exceeding 30%.

Is that a bad thing? And I think I have one design that currently uses jet engines with a rocket engine that can achieve orbit. I will have to load up and check.

[Hodo]

Here is one that is completely stock in FAR and uses a Turbojet it still manages orbit.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And this is a VTOL version that I was testing some concepts out on, it manages to meet my test requirements of 100km orbit, barely.....

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Wanderfound]

I see. Well, it looks like the days of the turbojets-to-orbit spaceplane are over. Time to re-learn how to make SSTOs that need an actual amount of rocket thrust.

Also, I just realized, this makes orbital lift much less valuable, as your plane will always have a positive weight exceeding 20% of its original weight, likely exceeding 30%.

You can still lift bulky payloads to orbit for a tiny fraction of the cost of a staged oxidising rocket. The equivalent of a Rockomax 64 in orbit costs less than √5,000.