Is rocket+lander worth it?

[Xadhoom]

With the new career mode, where money DOES count, do you think it's worth to build a rocket with a lander? I could build ship that can land then get back to Kerbin on its own, instead... I am already doing this for short travels (like Kerbin to Mun) but i was wondering if it's actually a good idea.

In scientific mode i usually don't care, since it's more fun with a lander... but i honestly don't see the point in using lander in career mode.

Thanks for your opinion & sorry if my english is not perfect.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Xadhoom

[RexKramer]

A lander which separates from the main ship is more efficient- you aren't lugging your entire fuel load to the surface and back. So your ship needs less fuel overall if you use a small lander. Small reductions in weight at the top (upper stages) of your ship have a huge impact in how much thrust you need at the bottom (the first stage, at launch).

The cost of adding a few docking collars and tiny engines is very minor compared to the cost you save by not needing extra giant boosters and fuel tanks.

The cost savings really add up if you are planning multiple trips to the surface. Refueling a very small lander does not require very much fuel for each descent to the surface. Refueling a larger ship without a dedicated lander will require more fuel each time, because the extra weight requires more fuel to be consumed during each descent. Again, the more fuel you need to bring along for each descent the more your rocket will cost.

[dzikakulka]

Yes it is. It saves a lot of fuel - you probably can do an extra hop or two between biomes and still return than you would if moving that whole mass at once. It also (most of the time) gives you better control, easier landings and is a great opportunity to train at randezvous and docking. Which are important to get most of the game

[Xadhoom]

Well, thank you!

Now i actually understand why it's a good idea, even for small travel... and by the way, I never thought about going to several biomes with a lander! I had the idea of building a big space lab and then land with smaller ship, but i can actually already do this... on a smaller scale, a by bringing lots of scientific equipment

[dzikakulka]

Actually you had great idea, with rocket consisting of lab and docked lander (with all the science stuff) you can land, perform experiments and then dock with "base" module (lab). When you're docked you can clean up goo and science jr. experiments making them reusable, load your lander with more fuel if you have some to spare and grab all the experiments with kerbal on eva and put them into "base" command module. You don't have to do the last thing, but it will allow you to have multiple "crew reports" - you can't do one if you have one already stored but you can transfer them (and have multiple that way) no problem.

Sorry if you know this all, maybe others can see that too then

Have fun and many "succesful" missions!

[Alshain]

Actually you had great idea, with rocket consisting of lab and docked lander (with all the science stuff) you can land, perform experiments and then dock with "base" module (lab). When you're docked you can clean up goo and science jr. experiments making them reusable, load your lander with more fuel if you have some to spare and grab all the experiments with kerbal on eva and put them into "base" command module. You don't have to do the last thing, but it will allow you to have multiple "crew reports" - you can't do one if you have one already stored but you can transfer them (and have multiple that way) no problem.

Sorry if you know this all, maybe others can see that too then

Have fun and many "succesful" missions!

You can do multiple crew reports just by taking them out and putting them back in your lander command pod. I don't know why that is, seems silly, but that is how it works. With that knowledge you can jump to several biomes in one landing before returning to your lab.

What you can't do is put multiple science data from the same biome in the command pod (i.e. two mystery goo from the lesser flats of minmus will not work). You can only do that by putting it in the lab.

[dzikakulka]

You can do multiple crew reports just by taking them out and putting them back in your lander command pod. I don't know why that is, seems silly, but that is how it works. With that knowledge you can jump to several biomes in one landing before returning to your lab.

But goo and science jr. need cleaning or they won't work

[Alshain]

But goo and science jr. need cleaning or they won't work

Correct. When I really get going, I build landers with 4 of each of those. Then I can do 4 hops before returning to my station.

[Master Tao]

Mostly wanted to add this: the science experiments are among the most expensive parts in the game, so concentrate your efforts on bringing them and possibly your lander engine back. In my case, I launched a fully-reusable lander sent it to the Mun. After hitting many biomes there, I moved it and the refueling station to Minmus. Just budget your biome-hopping dv with the number of Science Jr. and Mystery Goo experiments you bring.

You can do multiple crew reports just by taking them out and putting them back in your lander command pod. I don't know why that is, seems silly, but that is how it works. With that knowledge you can jump to several biomes in one landing before returning to your lab.

The game doesn't gracefully handle the way command pods are both science experiments and science containers. When you put the crew report back in the pod, it's stored in a different way.

[Alshain]

Mostly wanted to add this: the science experiments are among the most expensive parts in the game, so concentrate your efforts on bringing them and possibly your lander engine back. In my case, I launched a fully-reusable lander sent it to the Mun. After hitting many biomes there, I moved it and the refueling station to Minmus. Just budget your biome-hopping dv with the number of Science Jr. and Mystery Goo experiments you bring.

Yep, my last game I made a grand total of two landers for all of the mun and minmus. The first one was a throw away because I needed the science to docking ports, but the second one made multiple trips to both moons. And whenever I needed to add newly researched science gear, I just added a docking port sandwich with the gear attached to a small fuel tank.

The game doesn't gracefully handle the way command pods are both science experiments and science containers. When you put the crew report back in the pod, it's stored in a different way.

From a programmers perspective, that does make sense.

[Pecan]

I prefer to build space-stations with dedicated landers in each system, although not usually each moon. SSTOs for launch to Kerbin station, stations and transfer vehicles that never land, dedicated landers. Once the infrastructure is in place you can go anywhere as many times as you like just for the cost of fuel.