Appropriate realism combos

[wrexecute]

First I'd like to say that since I've been using FAR, I haven't had much motivation to enter space since it's just so fun to tool around Kerbin with realistic aircraft. Now after getting back into the game to check out all the great things that have changed, I finally WANT to go to space. But I have a few issues in that area I'm trying to figure out.

I absolutely NEED to have FAR, but I didn't realize how serious the "horror stories" were when they said how easy it is to get to orbit. So I thought I'd embrace RealFuel, RftS Engines, and KIDS(FAR to Real Adj setting). This is more like it... but I'm having a monster of a time trying to control the speeds of my contraptions. I either end up with a rediculous Apoapsis near the Mun, or I break apart trying to pitch down a bit. This is made extremely more difficult because of the engines pack having limits on throttling down. The early engines especially have little to no throttling down.

Should I just give up and go big with RSS? Or is there some combo of realism that works and makes sense with stock Kerbin?

[NathanKell]

Well, you know what my *first* answer will be

Actually, I take that back: a good first answer is actually to try out the 6.4x scaleup. If you're using FAR and RF, then likely it will "feel" about as easy to get into orbit as stock KSP does with stock aero and parts.

If you want to say Kerbol-sized, then you're going to have to pitch over very quickly, do reasonably flat ascents, and use very-high-thrust upper stages (so you can leave a lot of the burn for circularization).

[wrexecute]

I will try out both the 6.4 and the full sized RSS. Speeds will definitely make more sense to me either way. It's crazy how small Kerbin feels when the machinery works like its supposed to.

[EatVacuum]

From your description of problems controlling speed, I suspect you have two situations that could be looked at;

First, I suspect you have too much thrust on your first stage. You don't need to be pulling 2G at liftoff. Cut back to where your rocket lifts off fairly slowly initially, maybe 1.2 to 1.5 G max. While you burn a bit more fuel initially fighting gravity, you may save some fuel from the reduced drag by not exceeding terminal velocity. And as your altitude increases and fuel is expended your TWR will go up. It sounds like your TWR is way too high by the time you break atmo, so cutting the initial thrust back will help there.

Second, I'm guessing you have one big beefy stage to get you into space? If so, the increase in TWR/acceleration from launch to space will be huge as your rocket's mass will drop to a fraction of its initial as all that fuel is expended. Look at adding a stage or boosters to get you about half way to space and then drop them. Then your second stage should be designed to take you the rest of the way out of atmo and then circularize. Or better, drop off just before you completely circularize so that it falls back into atmosphere so you don't have orbital debris build up. Then circularize with the next stage and use it to complete your mission, transfer burn or whatever.

If you try the 6.4x rescale (my personal choice for best mix of challenge and playability) you will need a lot more rocket to get into space - about 7500 dV to orbit. If you are playing campaign that will mean your rockets will cost several times as much as stock Kerbin. In that case, I recommend you look at the Stage Recovery mod and design your lower rocket stages and boosters to be recoverable because you will need to recover those funds. Or do a lot of very efficient contracts to make up the extra money.

[regex]

As NathanKell points out 6.4x is a great place to get started with the Real Mods. I recommend using Real Fuels + the engine config of your choice, RSS + 6.4x Kerbin config, FAR, DRE + RSS-class heatshields, Procedural Parts (trust me you'll want the tanks), and anything else you want to slap on. If you're using 6.4x Kerbin I recommend NOT using Realism Overhaul for the simple fact that 6.4x Kerbin is 6.4x as big as stock for a reason, that being parts in KSP stock are 64% as large as their real counterparts. This also means you can continue to use your favorite parts packs without worrying whether they have an RO config yet. As EatVacuum says, you'll need around 7~7.5km/s to get to orbit which, with Real Fuels and engines and tanks, will give you a payload fraction of somewhere around 7% or better. This, IMO, is a good way to ease into the KSP "Realism scene" while avoiding a lot of possible "culture shock". When/if you're ready to take the next step of a full-blown Realism Overhaul install, you've already got a good idea of how things should actually go.

[regex]

When/if you're ready to take the next step of a full-blown Realism Overhaul install, you've already got a good idea of how things should actually go.

Also, just wanted to point out that if this seems condescending or anything, it wasn't meant to be; it's the same route I took to get to Realism Overhaul and I personally think 6.4x is a great compromise. It's the Way Stock Should Be IMO

[regex]

extraneous post removed.

Edited August 28, 2014 by regex

[wrexecute]

EatVacuum: You were dead-on about the TWR. It was way too powerful, and I built a lifelike R7 to compare. The R7 slowly inches up the launch clamps, beautiful star-shaped separation with no heat or flipping issues, and gets into a nice parking orbit. My other one by contrast, took off like a bottle-rocket, sometimes losing structural integrity on the way up. And yes, it was a big ol' nasty single-stage KeroLox lifter, pushing up a Hypergolic service module/MK1-2 pod. This may have worked in KSP but I obviously didn't follow Realism Overhaul's instructions of "forget KSP".

regex: I'm taking your advice and getting another flavor of the game installed with the stock 6.4 scaleup and all my old favs. I am just getting so much mileage out of this little piece of software, between my bare-stock Steam install for career play and now a folder dedicated to RSS/RO and another for 6.4x and crazy mods. I personally can't say I've ever gotten 3 games out of 1 unfinished game anywhere else.

Edited August 29, 2014 by wrexecute