Why are structural panels so DUMB?

[MerlinsMaster]

Hey guys,

I'm pulling my hair out here. Can anyone tell me if there is a trick to connecting structural panels, because I just can't seem to figure it out. They have a green connection marker in the center, but they only ever want to connect to the edge. Which is fine, but why show a connection marker in the center when nothing will ever connect there? But what really drives me crazy is that no matter how hard I try, I can NEVER get one structural panel to connect to another without it being a little bit off.

Well, I just can't accept that. I'm always seeing others building all of these marvels and monstrosities with dozens or even hundreds of these panels, and they are connected perfectly. What am I doing wrong?

Edited August 29, 2014 by MerlinsMaster

[GreeningGalaxy]

Structural panels are inanely difficult to place properly, I would agree with you there. You can actually get them to attach in the center (to either make a stack of panels or attach other inline parts to them), which seems to work better for me if you view the panel you're trying to attach to edge-on in the VAB/SPH. Attaching them edge-to-edge with any degree of precision is even harder, and while I have managed to make a few of them connect nicely, I can only conclude that those monstrosities you see people make out of them must have required some combination of witchcraft, thaumaturgy, or reality bending, not to mention a mad mad gaming box to run that smoothly with a ship with a part count that high.

My advice is to set your mouse sensitivity a little lower and play around with the WASD keys in the VAB a bit more (as well as viewing the target part from different angles) to see if you can get anything to meet up nicely. Oh, and of course, don't forget to turn on angle snap!

[MerlinsMaster]

I'll try that mouse sensitivity tip. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll have to start learning witchcraft.

[Claw]

I find that when you actually find the perfect center of the edge of a panel, it likes to flip. So if you can find that exact center point where the panel likes to toggle back and forth, you're very close. Then it takes a lot of zoom-in and patience to get it set right.

I'll see if I can dig up (or create) a picture of what the heck I'm talking about.

~Claw

[MerlinsMaster]

I find that when you actually find the perfect center of the edge of a panel, it likes to flip.

Yes! It DOES do that. In fact, it haunts my dreams.

I'll see if I can dig up (or create) a picture of what the heck I'm talking about.

Don't worry, I know exactly what you're talking about.

[davidclaywood]

I agree with you guys, these panels are nutz. I have seen examples of them put tegether but I can't do it. I quit!

[Kasuha]

To attach structural panel by its attach point, move your camera around the ship so you have open and clear view at the node where you want to place it - with no parts behind it. Pick up the panel, rotate it the right way to stick to the node, and approach the node with mouse carefully without pointing at any parts till it snaps to the node. By carefully moving your mouse away/towards the node you can affect which of the two points will be used - a lot of time it tries to clip the panel into the ship and attach the opposite node which you usually don't want to do. Moving the mouse by approximately width of the panel you can switch to the other node. It can be a little easier if you can zoom in to the node until the width of the attached panel becomes substantial. Another option is to put the panel on some clear node first, attach the long I-beam to it, tear it off the node together with the I-beam and then place it by that I-beam. A little more work but since such part has just one attach node it is given which one will be used. It also gives you longer handle by which you can manipulate the panel without pointing at any parts of the ship.

[M4ck]

If you use Editor Extensions, vertical snap lets you place them co-planar, so they are flat against each other, with no vertical offset. Even better is placing a panel in such a way that it has the nodes pointing to the sides, not up/down, enabling vertical snap and placing another panel on the vertical edge with 90* angle setting. It works perfectly without almost any aiming.

[Claw]

Here you go. I did this example in the SPH. The first panel was flipped down so it's easier to see.

Move the second panel left and right until it starts to flip. Get it as vertical as you can, then start moving the mouse up and down. Once the panel goes straight vertical (like in the first picture), press 'D' and it will be perfectly aligned when placed.

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[Megalodon 720]

You have to be careful with them, they are hard to place but with practise and patience you can make masterpieces with them:

[Oafman]

What I would really like is if we could set the desired plane of the part before attaching with shift+wasd, and then it doesn't deviate from that plane while you try to get it to fit where you want. Trying to get the plane right and the position right simultaneously is what makes it hard. I'm not sure if this would have any negative implications, as I haven't thought it through. Just an idea.

[M4ck]

You have to be careful with them, they are hard to place but with practise and patience you can make masterpieces with them:

http://i.imgur.com/p5spL5j.png

Fake! Your computer would explode trying to load such a massive thing. It would, right?... It's not just that mine is so poor that it would...

[Red Iron Crown]

You have to be careful with them, they are hard to place but with practise and patience you can make masterpieces with them:

http://i.imgur.com/p5spL5j.png

I never get tired of that screenshot, the Brittanic is just beautiful. Needs some Kerbpaint to really bring it to life.

[Megalodon 720]

Kerbpainting welded objects can get a little... weird.

[M4ck]

Kerbpainting welded objects can get a little... weird.

(facepalm) Right, so it was welded together... That makes it MUCH easier to get massive vessels actually playable

[Megalodon 720]

1500 parts would melt most computers.

[Oafman]

Is it your available RAM which determines how well your machine will cope with a high parts count, in the same way that it influences how many mods you can handle?

[Laie]

Is it your available RAM which determines how well your machine will cope with a high parts count, in the same way that it influences how many mods you can handle?

Nah, in this case it's the CPU that has to calculate how all these parts interact with each other and the environment. From basic collision checks to drag to how much every connection bends and wobbles. And probably much more.

As a good part of these are interactions between parts, doubling the part count will more than double the CPU load.

[MarvinKitFox]

1500 parts would melt most computers.

Nah, i've been able to launch a 2347 part rocket just fine.

it

is

just

s

l

o

w

And when I say slow, I mean *slow*. One frame per 7 seconds slow. Not 7 frames per second, 1 frame per 7 seconds.

Figure 4.5 hours time elapsed from launchpad to orbit.

[Red Iron Crown]

Nah, i've been able to launch a 2347 part rocket just fine.

it

is

just

s

l

o

w

And when I say slow, I mean *slow*. One frame per 7 seconds slow. Not 7 frames per second, 1 frame per 7 seconds.

Figure 4.5 hours time elapsed from launchpad to orbit.

One of the best uses for MechJeb, IMO. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

[M4ck]

Is it your available RAM which determines how well your machine will cope with a high parts count, in the same way that it influences how many mods you can handle?

RAM mostly limits how much data can be kept loaded at once, like how many mod parts you use, how heavy the textures are. CPU deals with parts interactions on currently loaded vessel. GPU handles rendering of these vessels.

If the game crashes often on max textures, but works fine on 1/4 textures, then it is most likely RAM overloading.

If the game runs slow(as in low FPS, not occasional hanging for a few seconds), it will be either weak CPU or GPU. If it is slow while in flight view, and then speed up considerably while switched to the map view, it is probably caused by you graphics card not managing to draw everything pretty enough. If it is slow in both scenes for large(part number, not mass) crafts, but good for small ones - then the CPU is not strong enough to calculate physics as fast as needed. Check the colour of the timer in the upper left corner. Green means max, regular speed. Yellow indicates the game is advancing slower than it should(like at 0.9x speed or lower). Red usually shows up during physical warp. If it is yellow in flight and green in map view, it's GPU, etc.

[MarvinKitFox]

. Green means max, regular speed. Yellow indicates the game is advancing slower than it should(like at 0.9x speed or lower). Red usually shows up during physical warp. If it is yellow in flight and green in map view, it's GPU, etc.

And if it is permanently red or yellow, with rare flickers of green... i need to start saving for a better pc? Or stop imitating Whackjob maybe?

[MerlinsMaster]

Thanks, everyone. The pointers you provided have been very helpful. I am now able to get much more consistent results.