magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Death Engineering said: Have you considered including Life Support parts in the list of things that get refilled when a craft is recovered through your GUI and tanks-filled in the VAB? When a stage is recovered using Stage Recovery mod, is it treated like a KSP-recover or a KCT-recover? Is there any progression in sandbox mode for build points or is KCT intended to use the starting (default 45) value throughout the sandbox play? Does sandbox support re-allocating the points? 1. When you recover to storage and then edit the craft to refill tanks, the "Refill Tanks" button on the KCT GUI should refill life support containers as well. If it isn't, that's a bug. It should reset all resources back to their default values (so fuel and food fill fully, but CO2 safely says sayonara). 2. KSP-recover. The parts get added to the inventory. Recovering them as a vessel would usually be pretty useless, since you'd have to scrap them to put them back on a ship (they're typically spent stages), plus the KCT-recover function is very error prone (KSP doesn't like going from a Vessel to a craft file.) 3. I leave sandbox up to the player. I don't like Sandbox being treated as "you must have everything unlocked for you automatically" but prefer it to be "you can do whatever you want". 45 upgrades is less than the fully unlocked tech tree but still pretty high. Depending on your play style you might start with a lower number (like the default 15 for Career/Science) then increase that number when you do something that you consider deserves a reward. Example: if I were to play Sandbox right now I'd probably start with 15, then give myself 1 or 2 for reaching orbit, 5 or so after landing on the Mun, another 5 for Minmus, 10 or 15 for Duna or Eve, etc. Sandbox is about defining your own progression, to me at least, so KCT is designed around that idea (45 is just a nice high-middleground for generally playing around. Also keep in mind that you'll need less upgrades total, since you don't have to put anything into unlocking tech nodes faster). You can reassign points by using the "Reset Points" button, like normal. You might want to change the formula that controls that if it's something you'll be doing often (like if you're just experimenting with different point values). If you have any other questions/comments/suggestions, let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Engineering Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, magico13 said: 1. When you recover to storage and then edit the craft to refill tanks, the "Refill Tanks" button on the KCT GUI should refill life support containers as well. If it isn't, that's a bug. It should reset all resources back to their default values (so fuel and food fill fully, but CO2 safely says sayonara). I can state from testing that USI-LS in it's current form and KCT in it's previous form (just prior to multiple launch pads) does not refill the LS tanks I had unlocked at the time (just the wee radial ones). Thanks for the reply! edit Edited January 7, 2016 by Death Engineering fnord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 28 minutes ago, Death Engineering said: I can state from testing that USI-LS in it's current form and KCT in it's previous form (just prior to multiple launch pads) does not refill the LS tanks I had unlocked at the time (just the wee radial ones). Thanks for the reply! Alright, I'll have to test that out later. There are a few other fixes I need to make to the refill code (specifically for procedural tanks) so maybe I'll try to fix those both at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Engineering Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I do have just ONE more question.. (for now ) In sandbox mode, I'm guessing the inventory parts are completely tracked as they are in career mode since I see them in inventory and they affect build times. Would you consider adding an option to toggle the cost-effect of using the parts in inventory while in sandbox? Edited January 7, 2016 by Death Engineering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Death Engineering said: Would you consider adding an option to toggle the cost-effect of using the parts in inventory while in sandbox? I think you'll have to explain this a bit further for me. You want it so the inventory parts don't adjust the build times? There are several ways of achieving that already: The easy way - Set the "Inventory Effect" to 0 in the settings (you might also want to change the Build Effect to 0 as well, when it's non-zero then subsequent builds with the same parts are faster). The "more options" way - Change the EffectivePartFormula to something else (in this case, remove the "[ I]+" part of the formula). To call KCT "configurable" might be an understatement, as pretty much every equation that KCT uses to determine times/costs/values can be defined by the user. Read up on Presets and on the various formulas that can be changed if you're interested in more. Edited January 7, 2016 by magico13 Darn thing keeps trying to italicize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperCooper Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Overlapping launch windows! Weeeeee! Finally I am able to do this! Thanks for the great update. I have a little suggestion. Not sure if this is possible, but... when you fly relatively large rockets, especially in RSS, part count seriously matters. I found myself not trying at all to do parachute-based recoveries, since I would need to spam loads and loads of chutes on stages I would like to recover. It would be nice if KCT would incorporate the procedural changes made to parachutes in the Real Chutes mod. Or does it do that nowadays? IIRC in earlier versions it did not. Tweakscale changes would also be nice. But from what I can tell that does not work together with Real Chutes. Anyway, as always... thanks for your great modding work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, TrooperCooper said: It would be nice if KCT would incorporate the procedural changes made to parachutes in the Real Chutes mod. Or does it do that nowadays? IIRC in earlier versions it did not. If you're talking about in terms of the part inventory, then RealChutes are handled there the same way any Procedural Part is handled (stored as 100x their cost, then pulled out at the same conversion. Procedural parts also don't get as much of a reduction in time because of retooling and all that). If you're talking about parachute based recovery of stages, that was actually removed from KCT and put exclusively into StageRecovery. KCT/StageRecovery have supported RealChutes since PreRelease 4 I think (I think that was around April of 2014). Tweakscale has been supported since KCT 1.0 For StageRecovery it just had support added in 1.6 (a few weeks ago). Regarding RSS: if you're running RP-0 I don't think the Preset has been updated to support multiple launch pads. They will probably up the cost quite a bit for multiple pads once that's updated. I'm glad you're enjoying the new features! Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me their stories of how they bought 10 pads so they could launch a whole fleet off at once (um, stagger your launches dude ) or how they've started rolling out a rescue mission at the same time as their main mission (and perhaps has needed to use it) much like they did with the later shuttle missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperCooper Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, magico13 said: If you're talking about in terms of the part inventory, then RealChutes are handled there the same way any Procedural Part is handled (stored as 100x their cost, then pulled out at the same conversion. Procedural parts also don't get as much of a reduction in time because of retooling and all that). If you're talking about parachute based recovery of stages, that was actually removed from KCT and put exclusively into StageRecovery. KCT/StageRecovery have supported RealChutes since PreRelease 4 I think (I think that was around April of 2014). Tweakscale has been supported since KCT 1.0 For StageRecovery it just had support added in 1.6 (a few weeks ago). Oh, sorry, wrong thread then. My bad. :-/ I will have to try that out then. I'm pretty sure it did not work as intended last time I did. I'll let you know. 11 minutes ago, magico13 said: Regarding RSS: if you're running RP-0 I don't think the Preset has been updated to support multiple launch pads. They will probably up the cost quite a bit for multiple pads once that's updated. I'm glad you're enjoying the new features! Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me their stories of how they bought 10 pads so they could launch a whole fleet off at once (um, stagger your launches dude ) or how they've started rolling out a rescue mission at the same time as their main mission (and perhaps has needed to use it) much like they did with the later shuttle missions. Yeah, they will prolly up the cost. But hopefully they cant rob me mine anymore. And yes, from now on every manned flight will have a rescue craft on standby for me. Would have been handy yesterday already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, TrooperCooper said: Oh, sorry, wrong thread then. My bad. :-/ I will have to try that out then. I'm pretty sure it did not work as intended last time I did. I'll let you know. StageRecovery comes from KCT's code anyway, so no worries KCT had its own separate recovery code until fairly recently, but it didn't make sense to do upkeep on two pieces of code that were nearly identical (with the exception that KCT's code did substantially fewer things), so I made StageRecovery a requirement for that and moved it out of KCT entirely. Hopefully RealChutes still works with it, since I always run RealChutes in my games (I'm 99% sure it's working fine still). If you find evidence to the contrary then I'd be very interested in seeing that! If you end up doing a rescue mission that's made possible by the multi-pads, let me know. I'd be interested in seeing/reading that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Engineering Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 19 hours ago, magico13 said: I think you'll have to explain this a bit further for me. You want it so the inventory parts don't adjust the build times? Hmm.. What I've observed in sandbox with recovered parts is that when using recovered parts the build time changes, but the vehicle cost does not seem to change. While this is irrelevant in sandbox by the nature of sandbox, it would be interesting to know the reflected cost using recovered parts as well as build time. ediot: I was doing something else entirely, sorry. (messing with KCT recovered craft and editing). Edited January 8, 2016 by Death Engineering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, Death Engineering said: the vehicle cost does not seem to change It doesn't change in career either. Parts that are in the inventory don't reduce costs, because by recovering them in the first place you've received that money back as if you sold the part. It's something I want to change when I (eventually) split the inventory into a separate mod, so that when you buy parts you hold onto them until you either destroy them or sell them and don't have to pay for their reuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorvusCorax Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Hereby doing that. This happens with KCT in combo with TestFlight Reproduction: Have an engine fail (loss of thrust, engine failure or explosion) in flight (thanks to "TestFlight") Recover the vehicle into the VAB/SPH using KCT Either try to edit this vehicle or try to re-launch it (both leads to this nice error) I uploaded the logs and filed more detailed information at https://github.com/magico13/KCT/issues/114 (hope thats the right place) Edit: found the cause. The issue is that an engine or tank "exploded" thanks to TestFlight often removes one of several symmetric parts. This triggeres a known issue in KCT when symmetric parts are rendered "no-longer-symmetric" in flight (like clipped wings) but with higher incident-rate. Work around is to "Scrap" such vessels (or recover "old style") and then rebuild them from parts (takes longer though). Apparently there's a relatively easy fix for this, so it should likely be fixed very soon Edited January 8, 2016 by CorvusCorax solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt77 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I'm at a point in my career where I badly need to upgrade my stuff, but upgrade points are coming quite slowly - so I'm checking every few scene changes to see if I've got a point yet. Could we get a notification when points become available? Maybe even visualise the progress toward a new upgrade point? I find the current system slightly opaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 There already is a message that tells you when you have a new point. It pops up when you pay for a tech node, since that's the only way you earn upgrades without buying them. There's no system that gives you upgrades over time or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt77 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, magico13 said: There already is a message that tells you when you have a new point. It pops up when you pay for a tech node, since that's the only way you earn upgrades without buying them. There's no system that gives you upgrades over time or anything like that. Oh my bad. For some reason I thought upgrade points came when you accumulated a certain number of build points. So it's based on science spent, not construction completed. Got it. Thanks for the mod btw, while I've got your attention. It's one of several mods that transform KSP from a good concept to an amazing game. Edited January 9, 2016 by Matt77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Matt77 said: Oh my bad. For some reason I thought upgrade points came when you accumulated a certain number of build points. So it's based on science spent, not construction completed. Got it. Thanks for the mod btw, while I've got your attention. It's one of several mods that transform KSP from a good concept to an amazing game. I really should remove all mentions of Build Points and just keep them as an internal thing. They're just a way to quantify the "complexity" or "value" of a craft, so that I can calculate a total amount of time it takes for something to be built, but players only need to know times not that actual value. I kinda like the idea of getting upgrades for building a certain amount of things, I wonder if I could work that into a Preset... I'm glad you're enjoying the mod If you've got other questions or ideas, feel free to let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw2011 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I wanted to use JUST the simulate part of this mod as no other mod seems to provide this but I have hit a problem: After installing to an inprogress save I changed the settings on load to just leave the simulation and mod enabled buttons pressed and the simulation works correctly. However my launchpad lost its existing upgrades. I though no problem I have enough money to upgrade it again, so I did so but it then reverted back to the base version again immediately. I tried once more same result and then I alt-f4ed. Unfortunately it had still saved the changes so now I have a non upgradable launchpad, no money and sad face. Any ideas about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, billw2011 said: After installing to an inprogress save I changed the settings on load to just leave the simulation and mod enabled buttons pressed and the simulation works correctly. However my launchpad lost its existing upgrades. Crap. That wasn't a situation that got tested before release, sorry about that. I don't have the time tonight for a proper fix, but if you're willing to do some really simple save file editing (changing one number) you should be able to work around this bug. Open up your save file in a text editor and search for "KCT_LaunchPad" (without quotes). You should see a node saying "level = 0" and "name = LaunchPad". Change that 0 to either a 1 or a 2 and it should be properly upgraded next time you load the save (1 if it was Tier 2, 2 if it was Tier 3). I'll try to get a proper fix out in the next few days. If you want to give yourself back the money you spent, search for "funds = " and you should find a block that looks like the one below. Just change the number on the right of the equals sign. LaunchPad block: LaunchPads { KCT_LaunchPad { level = 0 name = LaunchPad DestructionState { blah blah blah... } } } Funds block: SCENARIO { name = Funding scene = 7, 8, 5, 6 funds = 370104.482297942 } Edited January 11, 2016 by magico13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torih Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 HI, I'm having a slight issue with the new update, the third pad I've unlocked won't let me roll anything out to it. When I select the third pad it still shows in storage next to the crafts and doesn't change the icon to rollout. I think that I did have something on the pad and I had been removing a couple of parts from my install which caused the craft to be removed. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26687/output_log.txt Anything I can do to get it back? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 4 hours ago, Torih said: HI, I'm having a slight issue with the new update, the third pad I've unlocked won't let me roll anything out to it. If something was on the pad and then was removed due to missing the parts then that could definitely cause that to happen (I'll get that fixed for the bugfix update I mentioned in my previous post). You'll have to do a small bit of save file editing to fix it. Search for "Recon_Rollout" in your save file (without quotes). Then find the Recon_Rollout_Item with the launchPadID that has the same name as your third launchpad (so LaunchPad 3 if you never renamed it). Delete that whole Recon_Rollout_Item (everything between the { } brackets and the "Recon_Rollout_Item" text before the brackets) and when you load the save again it should work. Here's an example Recon_Rollout_Item so you know what to look for: Recon_Rollout_Item { name = Vessel Rollout BP = 65559.3024902342 progress = 526.56598825046 cost = 0 associatedID = 99b98f0d-413e-4c3a-9460-f0a38ea80632 launchPadID = Pad A } Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torih Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks, thats sorted it Just a quick note, the warp to on rollout doesn't always stop warp completely since the update, it reduced it only to 1000x on a few occasions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 39 minutes ago, Torih said: Just a quick note, the warp to on rollout doesn't always stop warp completely since the update, it reduced it only to 1000x on a few occasions.. I've noticed some similar issues with warping down not occurring in time. It's one of the things I'm planning on trying to fix in the bugfix update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw2011 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 19 hours ago, magico13 said: Crap... Thanks, that fixed my save and the problem has not reoccurred. It never occurred to me that the save would just be a text file! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw2011 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I did run into another problem: During simulation staging doesn't doesn't work. Right click menus on parts work fine, but space bar to stage doesn't. This is using a probe core with remote tech disabled or enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magico13 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 A bunch of bug fixes in the latest development build if anyone wants to try it out. If anyone notices anything else in the next day or so, let me know. I'll fully release this either tomorrow or Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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