The Ultimate SKYLON Challenge --- [open]

[SkyRex94]

I'll give this a swing. Few questions before I begin, though...

-Is Tweakscale acceptable or not allowed? (I plan on using it on the main gear and the RCS blocks only)

-Can I use MechJeb autopilots to help hold precise attitudes?

-NO for Tweakscale, because having the limited possibilities of e.g. the stock wheels is part of the engineering challenge and should be same for everyone

-YES for MechJeb, if it works with FAR/NEAR, although you should mention it if you use it

What engine is that on the tail? Rocket or jet?

It's the Aerospike Rocket, because it's 390 ISP is better than the RAPIERs

Also I'd like to note that it feels like overkill to make the points linearly proportional to payload mass. I understand 500kg payloads should receive a penalty, but a 20t payload that is raised at 200$ per t surely should not receive more points vs a payload of 5t at 100$ per t, right? I think a formula like [Price / (payloadMass - 100kg)] is much fairer. It penalizes undersized launchers but not so much that a 5x bigger payload launched 3x less efficiently will outrank it by lightyears.

ps. the reason I didn't include the 12 units of fuel from the payload in the launch price was because it was payload. The decreased mass is its own penalty imo.

But only counting the decreased mass would not follow the formular for points, and to make it fair every entry has to be calculated in exactly the same way, that was not a penalty.

And for the general points: For your example: I think a 20t for 200$/t craft is indeed better and should recieve more points than a 5t for 100 $/t craft. This is not a Challenge for the 'most efficient' Craft, but for the most practical and usefull, and this usefulness is calculated in through the maximum payload, because you simply can build bigger construction, bring bigger things at once into orbit and so on, indeed saving a lot of docking ports for orbital constructions compared to more and smaller pieces.

And the formular is linear in both directions right now, so fair imo:

example : 100kg / 50 $/t = 2p

double mass = double points : 200/50 = 4

double efficiency = also double points : 100/25 = 4

Edited October 9, 2014 by SkyRex94

[MaverickSawyer]

-NO for Tweakscale, because having the limited possibilities of e.g. the stock wheels is part of the engineering challenge and should be same for everyone

-YES for MechJeb, if it works with FAR/NEAR, although you should mention it if you use it

Ok, that's fair.

One last thing that came to mind: Tweakable Everything (only to disable the ejection force on a decoupler to release the cargo in the hold...)

[PTNLemay]

I wasn't able to meet the full requirements, but I'd still like to share my attempts. I ended up building a kind of Skylon-DreamChaser hybrid. It has air-breathing nacelles, but it gets into orbit a-top a conventional chemical booster. On a quasi-related note, I can't figure out how to make those nice Imgur albums that people post for these things, how do I make one? All I know how to do it post all the pics manually, like so.

Simple design.

http://i.imgur.com/dXb33Aq.png

Ready to launch.

http://i.imgur.com/KpDhrDu.png

Getting into orbit.

http://i.imgur.com/O4XRA2g.png

Release mini-satellite!

http://i.imgur.com/5vE4Uh5.png

I forgot to screengrab the shuttle's orbit, but this at least to shows the satellite got up there safely.

http://i.imgur.com/RWfT143.png

Coming back home.

http://i.imgur.com/tsQIYil.png

Observe pretty cockpit lights.

http://i.imgur.com/UEcKtI3.png

Fail to pull nose up to safely disperse reentry heat.

http://i.imgur.com/XqfzTUN.png

Slight damage on landing, an engine appears to be missing.

http://i.imgur.com/FTTYSYc.png

*Puts on sunglasses* Mission accomplished.

http://i.imgur.com/MlWUg7f.png

So yeah, any tips on how to make the imgur albums would be nice, thanks. Also sorry if failed attempts aren't really things you can post in these challenge threads, first time I try my hand at it. Let me know if you want me to edit it out.

[CaptainKipard]

It's the Aerospike Rocket, because it's 390 ISP is better than the RAPIERs

Ok just FYI, IRL Sabres and the orbital manoeuvring assembly both have the same Isp. Using the aerospikes seems a little cheaty to me.

[SkyRex94]

Ok, that's fair.

One last thing that came to mind: Tweakable Everything (only to disable the ejection force on a decoupler to release the cargo in the hold...)

Also no to Tweakable everything. It's a change of the properties of the stock parts, thats not allowed in the rules and everybody should have the same engineering limitations and challenges as everybody else to make the challenge fair.

Use a docking Port to eject your Cargo.

You don't need two, you can just attach one on your craft and the payload directly onto it, the decoupling works nevertheless and has no big ejection force.

[SkyRex94]

I have an entry in progress, first flight complete with a 5.68 ton payload and a cost per ton of $75.05. Not bad but I might try again with a bigger plane. I'll post pictures when I'm finished with flight 2.

Will be submitting my plane here tonight. Just reserving a spot

What happened to your designs? I'm awaiting more entries. And Highlad, you already reserved the spot, 'tonight' is a long time ago already

[Cygnus]

Hi there, I only recently found this challenge and I hope I am not too late.

Here is my entry: Perseus MK-1

It is part of my Skylon inspired all stock unmanned SSTO's built for FAR. The original model named Zeus was designed to mimic the Skylon design and lift 10 Tons to orbit in a cheap reusable unmanned SSTO. The model I am entering, Perseus, was designed to push the concept to the limit and lift 20 tons to orbit.

Specs:

Cost: 46,567 Funds

Wet weight: 28.9 Tons

Dry weight: 13.951 Tons

Power plant: 1x PB-NUK RTG

Engines: 3x RAPIERs

Intakes: 1x shock cone intake per engine

Rated to lift 20 Tons to an 80 km circular orbit.

Here is the link to the album detailing the 2 flight requirements for the challenge: Perseus Flights

Both flights carried a 20.2 Ton probe into >80 km orbit.

Flight 1:

Recovered funds: 45,183

Funds used: 1,384

Funds per Ton: 68.515

Score: 20,200 / 68.515 = 294.8

Flight 2:

Recovered funds: 45,217

Funds used: 1,350

Funds per Ton: 66.832

Score: 20,200 / 66.832 = 302.3

Average: (294.8 + 302.3) / 2 = 298.6

Total Points: 298.6

I hope more people post their designs and good luck!

[sdj64]

What happened to your designs? I'm awaiting more entries. And Highlad, you already reserved the spot, 'tonight' is a long time ago already

Sorry. I got sidetracked, forgot about this challenge, then uninstalled NEAR (usually I play with stock aero), so I never made a second flight. Here's a picture from the first flight.

Edit: this is the bigger plane that I said I might try again with.

I'm getting a joystick this weekend so I'll try it out and do a second flight with it then. It holds about 25 tons of cargo.

Edited October 23, 2014 by sdj64

[SkyRex94]

Hi there, I only recently found this challenge and I hope I am not too late.

Here is my entry: Perseus MK-1

http://i.imgur.com/ekTq6rW.png

It is part of my Skylon inspired all stock unmanned SSTO's built for FAR. The original model named Zeus was designed to mimic the Skylon design and lift 10 Tons to orbit in a cheap reusable unmanned SSTO. The model I am entering, Perseus, was designed to push the concept to the limit and lift 20 tons to orbit.

Specs:

Cost: 46,567 Funds

Wet weight: 28.9 Tons

Dry weight: 13.951 Tons

Power plant: 1x PB-NUK RTG

Engines: 3x RAPIERs

Intakes: 1x shock cone intake per engine

Rated to lift 20 Tons to an 80 km circular orbit.

Here is the link to the album detailing the 2 flight requirements for the challenge: Perseus Flights

Both flights carried a 20.2 Ton probe into >80 km orbit.

Flight 1:

Recovered funds: 45,183

Funds used: 1,384

Funds per Ton: 68.515

Score: 20,200 / 68.515 = 294.8

Flight 2:

Recovered funds: 45,217

Funds used: 1,350

Funds per Ton: 66.832

Score: 20,200 / 66.832 = 302.3

Average: (294.8 + 302.3) / 2 = 298.6

Total Points: 298.6

I hope more people post their designs and good luck!

Congratulations, you succesfully accomplished this Challenge. Points are calculated right as far as i can see. And you're actually on the top of the List for now. Very sleek and efficient Design, well done!

Besides: Which Mod did you use to make the Sun White? I would like to do that, too, as it resembles more our own Sun.

Edited October 24, 2014 by SkyRex94

[Cygnus]

Congratulations, you succesfully accomplished this Challenge. Points are calculated right as far as i can see. And you're actually on the top of the List for now. Very sleek and efficient Design, well done!

Besides: Which Mod did you use to make the Sun White? I would like to do that, too, as it resembles more our own Sun.

Thanks! I hope there are more contenders to compete with! For visuals, I used the Better Atmospheres mod but for the sun I think you can change that by itself using the SUNFLARE.DDS file in the better atmospheres mod and using these instructions.

[sdj64]

My entry is finished. Two very different scores for my flights since for the second I increased the payload to see if I could lift more to orbit. I could, and without much higher fuel usage. Therefore, my flight 2 score is much higher.

Flight 1:

payload = 12.43 x2 = 24.86 tons

3555-1239 = 2316 LF = $1852.8

3245-761 = 2484 OX = $447.12

total cost of launch = 2299.92 / 24.86 = 92.51 funds/ton. Score = 268.7

Flight 2:

payload = 15.43 x2 = 30.86 tons

3555-1175 = 2380 LF = $1904

3245-743 = 2502 OX = $450.36

Total cost of launch = 2354.36 / 30.86 = 76.29 funds/ton. Score = 404.5

Average Score = 336.6

Flying with a joystick is more fun, but also more difficult than with keyboard since I have a year of experience on the keyboard. I nearly lost control in the upper atmosphere a few times. Also, the joystick's smoother control input is not really necessary since I'm using NEAR not FAR, so I don't have to worry as much about aerodynamic disassembly.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[SSSPutnik]

Hi. Nice challenge. Just to keep things ticking along, I should be submitting this one shortly.

It was not designed for this challenge but fits the bill nicely. However it's more intended as a "fly to Duna and deliver a lander and return type" craft.

Hence, I need to tweak it up a bit for this challenge to convert fuel capacity into cargo capacity.

(This was my first ever space-plane landing that worked OK, I did however, miss the runway). I am using FAR, craft is all stock apart from MJ and PWings, so need to alter wing config.

Edited October 27, 2014 by SSSPutnik

[SkyRex94]

My entry is finished. Two very different scores for my flights since for the second I increased the payload to see if I could lift more to orbit. I could, and without much higher fuel usage. Therefore, my flight 2 score is much higher.

Flight 1:

payload = 12.43 x2 = 24.86 tons

3555-1239 = 2316 LF = $1852.8

3245-761 = 2484 OX = $447.12

total cost of launch = 2299.92 / 24.86 = 92.51 funds/ton. Score = 268.7

Flight 2:

payload = 15.43 x2 = 30.86 tons

3555-1175 = 2380 LF = $1904

3245-743 = 2502 OX = $450.36

Total cost of launch = 2354.36 / 30.86 = 76.29 funds/ton. Score = 404.5

Average Score = 336.6

Flying with a joystick is more fun, but also more difficult than with keyboard since I have a year of experience on the keyboard. I nearly lost control in the upper atmosphere a few times. Also, the joystick's smoother control input is not really necessary since I'm using NEAR not FAR, so I don't have to worry as much about aerodynamic disassembly.

http://imgur.com/a/dMnhv

I'm sorry but i can't accept your Entry:

1. Your second Flight Periapsis is too low.

2. several minor clipping violationts, but which are adding up to a clipping violation:

Wing Tanks inside the Wing, Wing Tanks and Engines slightly insided each other, Main Fuselage slightly inside itself(Mk2 is wider than Mk1) (and thats the reason you don't show the inside of your cargo bay)

3. I find it kinda suspicious you're not showing the underside of your craft, since i would be interested in how the Tanks(?) were the Rear Gear is attached to are attached to the craft.

And besides, if you figure out the cost by used fuel: do not use 0.18 for oxidizer multiplier but instead 0.182 since the real number is 0.18181818181818... and you're missing some funds otherwise

Sorry for that but i have to treat everyone under the same rules if a challenge shall be fair.

Cheers

Edited October 31, 2014 by SkyRex94