[1.2 - 1.4][WIP] Joolian Discovery v0.8 (2015-08-14)

[NecroBones]

Does this work with 0.25?

Yep, actually I posted the update before I saw your question. Nothing appears to have broken.

[NecroBones]

Does this work with 0.25?

Yep, actually I posted the update before I saw your question. Nothing appears to have broken.

... And I made a liar of myself. The texture on the neck-adapter broke (not sure why) on my last update. So I've updated again.

(Curse is being a pain tonight. might have to download it from Kerbal Stuff or from my server)

[Odyssey]

Any thoughts on launching this? I built Discovery, put it on the pad and fired up the engines to full and she went nowhere (not that I was expecting that to work).

She's not designed for atmospheric flight. Personally, I'd love to build her one piece at a time with KSO.

Anyone have a good launching method?

[NecroBones]

Any thoughts on launching this? I built Discovery, put it on the pad and fired up the engines to full and she went nowhere (not that I was expecting that to work).

She's not designed for atmospheric flight. Personally, I'd love to build her one piece at a time with KSO.

Anyone have a good launching method?

That's a good question. For testing, I was just doing some save-editing to put it into orbit. I imagined building some radial boosters, with Discovery in the middle, to get it to LKO, but I haven't tried it yet.

Theoretically, you could fit it (or halves of it) inside some of the larger fairings from some of the mods out there. The largest diameter piece is the command pod, at 4.5m across.

[NecroBones]

Still working on IVA for the Discovery. I'm not completely happy with it, so it's possible I may start over again at some point, but for now the almost-"Star Trek" sort of look will be OK. It was never meant to be a 100% replica of the 2001 Discovery anyway, so having a cockpit that looks nothing like the one in the movie doesn't bother me too much.

So I may put a little more detail in, and then call it "good enough for the time being".

[E.Nygma]

Love the HAL detail and thanks again for an awesome mod! Now, if I can get ATM, LOD to work properly, I will go to Jool "Discovery"-style

[stardestroyer]

Evil computer?!? What do you mean for...evil?!!

Seriously this IVA is amazing!!! Screens seems identical to the movie!

Do you pland an integration with Raster prop monitor?

You should also ask Porkjet permission to add his IVA of small centrifuge from Habitat Pack that is also inspired from 2001: A space odissey

[NecroBones]

Love the HAL detail and thanks again for an awesome mod! Now, if I can get ATM, LOD to work properly, I will go to Jool "Discovery"-style

Heh, yeah Discovery does use some large textures. The good news is that there aren't many of them. The boom sections all share their textures too. So really, it's almost like having only about 6 parts, though the IVA also adds a bunch of texture detail.

Evil computer?!? What do you mean for...evil?!!

Seriously this IVA is amazing!!! Screens seems identical to the movie!

Do you pland an integration with Raster prop monitor?

You should also ask Porkjet permission to add his IVA of small centrifuge from Habitat Pack that is also inspired from 2001: A space odissey

Glad you like the IVA! I'm my own worst critic, I know. I'm not done with it yet, so don't worry.

I'm going to look at adding the stock props to the IVA, but if that works out well, I may look at RPM too.

[E.Nygma]

Well, actually I don't think it's the Discovery's textures, more the plethora of textures im my game (aka many mods) but thanks for the warning about texture size anyway

[UltraVires]

Very Cool Mod! Been hoping someone would make the Discovery one day! And a Monolith Too!!! (now all we need is some Trippy music... XD) I especially like the way you stayed true to the original from the movie, while still giving the ship a "Kerbal" feel. Well done.

I've been doing some playing around, and I can confirm it is possible to launch the Discovery from the KSC... and it's not even that hard... (I used no cheats or mod parts other than being in Sandbox mode)

Observe;

I basically just built 2 SLS stacks side by side.

Yeehaw!

Jeb says "I see you there, Mun..."

On the last stage, on our way into Orbit.

Discovery; at full thrust.

And... here we are in orbit! When Jeb, Bill, and Bob are smiling... you know you've done good...

I built the launch rig so that Discovery would have to do some of it's final circularization burn on it's own fuel, it has plenty and it keeps the space debris down to a minimum.

Who needs homicidal computers, when you've got Jebediah Kerman... XD

Edited October 22, 2014 by UltraVires

[NecroBones]

Very Cool Mod! Been hoping someone would make the Discovery one day! And a Monolith Too!!! (now all we need is some Trippy music... XD) I especially like the way you stayed true to the original from the movie, while still giving the ship a "Kerbal" feel. Well done.

I've been doing some playing around, and I can confirm it is possible to launch the Discovery from the KSC... and it's not even that hard... (I used no cheats or mod parts other than being in Sandbox mode)

Observe;

http://i.imgur.com/7Pweq0p.png

I basically just built 2 SLS stacks side by side.

http://i.imgur.com/ukJVKZB.png

Yeehaw!

http://i.imgur.com/C9Twe0I.png

Jeb says "I see you there, Mun..."

http://i.imgur.com/KNfCLjK.png

On the last stage, on our way into Orbit.

http://i.imgur.com/WH9l5sf.png

Discovery; at full thrust.

http://i.imgur.com/3tcooe4.png

And... here we are in orbit! When Jeb, Bill, and Bob are smiling... you know you've done good...

I built the launch rig so that Discovery would have to do some of it's final circularization burn on it's own fuel, it has plenty and it keeps the space debris down to a minimum.

Who needs homicidal computers, when you've got Jebediah Kerman... XD

Awesome, nicely done! I've been meaning to try some radial booster arrangements like that. I figured it shouldn't be too hard, especially since the part count in the ship is low, so joint strength shouldn't be too bad to work around.

Most of my testing has been in orbit (via save-editing).

[Helix935]

Question: are you planning on building the exploration pod from 2001?

[Spork of Doom]

Her NecroBones, is there a chance you can provide an alternate set of cfg files for the parts that changes the fuel back to plain old LFO. This way we can use the fuel segments on other crafts and stations. I would do it my self but I'm not sure how much fuel should go in each segment.

[UltraVires]

Her NecroBones, is there a chance you can provide an alternate set of cfg files for the parts that changes the fuel back to plain old LFO. This way we can use the fuel segments on other crafts and stations. I would do it my self but I'm not sure how much fuel should go in each segment.

You can do it yourself, just stick with the amounts already in the tanks. Just be sure to change the engine configs to use Liquid fuel too, but don't change the ISP, or the amount of fuel they use per second. If you don't change those, then the ship will "perform" in the same way: the same amount of fuel will equal the same amount of Delta V*(see below).

Be aware though, that I'm not sure how much mass Necrobones gave his Nuclear Fuel, so changing it to Liquid will probably make the ship much heavier. With a similar effect on performance. Depending on how much heavier the fuel switch makes the ship, you may have to increase the thrust of the engines to compensate. So you may have to just play around a little bit to get a ratio of propellant mass/engine thrust that will work.

Though it would probably make things more difficult for Necrobones, I would like to see this made as a "normal" part of the mod. This would make the ship more usable in the game, and be more realistic. There is a big difference in Spacecraft in Fuel, and Propellant (also called Reaction Mass).

Fuel is what makes your engines work, propellant is what you shoot out the back of your engine to make the ship move. For example; on a ship with an NTR or the Cavradyne Gas Core Nuclear Engines the Discovery is supposed to have, the "fuel" is Uranium or Plutonium; the reaction of which makes Heat in the Reactor. The Propellant (liquid hydrogen usually) is run through the Reactor as coolant. When you want to make your ship go, you power up the Reactor to it's highest temperature and run your propellant through it, but instead of capturing the heated coolant/propellant to be cooled and used again, you squirt it out of a rocket nozzle to make your thrust. So while Discovery's Reactor "runs" on Nuclear fuel, the engines have to squirt out reaction mass (propellant) to make the ship move.

Or it could be that Necrobones has already thought of this, and is just using "Nuclear Fuel" as a stand in for Liquid Hydrogen (etc) because no one is quite sure what liquid fuel in KSP actually is. In which case I'm talking out of my ass... lol He is right tho, in the OP that Nuclear Engines don't use oxidizers (ok, there are some designs for "hybrid" NTR's which use oxidizer, but they gain thrust at the expense of efficiency- Isp)

Either way, it would be nice to be able to easily refuel Discovery from other ships, and have it be compatible with the various resource mods (Karbonite, Kethane etc) since they all work with the stock fuel system.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

This website has a very good explanation of Fuel Vs. Propellant (and the science behind it), as well as lots of other useful information for people looking to apply real science to fictional spaceships.

Being as this is a long ass post anyways... I'm gonna make it longer!!!

I've had some Ideas about how to make the Discovery more usable in the game (other than just making the pod bay functional- tho that would be awesome.. ). The Novel 2001 goes into more detail about the Discovery than the movie does, (since in the movie the mission definitely did not go according to plan) so most of the things I'm about the say come from that.

In the Novel (and film as well, though it's not shown on camera) the top and bottom of the Command Pod are blow away panels covering storage areas; in the novel the top is an auxiliary comm dish, the bottom is where the science payload was stored. Which is why Discovery actually needed EVA Pods, to remove the mission cargo and set up the science equipment. I'm not sure I'd like to have them as blow away panels, but I would like a "cargo bay" where the top and bottom of the command pod are large doors that open up.

The AE-35 Antennae: It would be nice if the Antennae could fold down along the hull when not in use, this would make docking things to Discovery, or docking the ship itself much easier. I'm not sure how Remote Tech does it, but the Solar Panels have a tracking mode in the configs (so they can always point at the sun). It would be really cool if the AE-35 could swivel and track Kerbin as the ship moves around. That doesn't really make it more "useful", but as I said... It's cool!

That's about all I can think of that fits in with the Movie/Novel. I could probably come up with some other ideas, like an "Elephant Ear" Command Pod, with large cargo mounts on the sides (like Elephant Ears) so the cargo could "hang" from them and be under tension while the ship is thrusting... other stuff..

These are just some suggestions. If I knew anything about making mods, I'd offer to help. Unfortunately I don't. All I can do is make (hopefully) helpful suggestions, and admire the work that gets done... XD

Again, great work Necrobones, and I'm excited to see where the mod goes!

Edited October 25, 2014 by UltraVires

[NecroBones]

Sorry for my late reply. But yes, that's not a bad idea to make an alternate config. I'm thinking a ModuleManager config, so that you can just rename the file to enable it, or not. I'll keep that in mind, and can probably get that together for the next release (which I want to get out sometime soon just to fix the broken back-seat angles in the one I put out).

In the meantime, I can provide some info around what I did with the fuel:

As UltraVires pointed out, true Nuclear engines will use a propellant, since the "fuel" is the nuclear reactor fuel. Usually hydrogen makes the most sense, since you can get higher engine efficiency with lighter-mass propellants, because it's easier to get a higher acceleration per unit of reaction mass.

So, my thinking is that since Discovery is meant to be a more "advanced" technology than regular chemical rockets, and KSP doesn't realistically model the nuclear fuels, I thought I'd just add my own. However, to keep things simple, I kept the mass density and units the same as KSP's default LiquidFuel and Oxidizers. I did however make the funds-cost higher per unit.

Here's the KSP definitions:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = LiquidFuel
  density = 0.005
  unitCost = 0.8
  flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxidizer
  density = 0.005
  unitCost = 0.18
  flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}

And here's Discovery's "NuclearPropellant":

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = NuclearPropellant
  density = 0.005
  unitCost = 1.0
  flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}

The stock engines+tanks use 55% Oxidizer and 45% LiquidFuel. So, for example, changing the X1 fuel tank to use the stock fuels and keep all of the mass/efficiency/etc the same, you would change this:

RESOURCE
{
 name = NuclearPropellant
 amount = 400
 maxAmount = 400
}

... to this:

RESOURCE
{
 name = LiquidFuel
 amount = 180
 maxAmount = 180
}

RESOURCE
{
 name = Oxidizer
 amount = 220
 maxAmount = 220
}

Also,

Question: are you planning on building the exploration pod from 2001?

Do you mean the EVA pods from Discovery's pod bay? I hope to, yes. I'm figuring out animation for another project (cargo bays), and hope to apply that to this later.

Edited October 27, 2014 by NecroBones

[Oafman]

Oh my! Have loads of rep.

I think the IVA looks good so far. Would be great if it could work with RPM. Of course, what would also be amazing is a working cargo bay. With doors which usually open when you want them to!

This is an EARLY BETA -- While we'll try to avoid breaking people's savegames with future updates, it may be unavoidable at some point.

Any problems can only be attributable to human error

Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do.....

[NecroBones]

Any problems can only be attributable to human error

Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do.....

lol

Yeah, I'll push out an update maybe today or tomorrow with some of the fixes I have in the IVA. I haven't added much detail yet though. I want to add more displays, some stock gauges, and so on. The pod bay with opening doors will come eventually, but I'm working on some of my other mods again, and will have to circle back later.

[NecroBones]

The new release is up. The changes are pretty minimal, but since I may not have time to work on this right away, I wanted to at least let everyone play with what I've done so far.

0.4 (2014-10-30) - Beta Release
 - Tiny bit more progress on IVA
 - Fixed IVA seat orientations
 - Slightly brightened exterior textures.
 - Switched textures back to MBM format for best performance and memory usage.

[Mekan1k]

Love the design, needs a hotrockets engine thrust though...

[Guest]

I am so freakin' happy right now...

Discovery is ready to get under way. What could go wrong?

[TonyC]

So..does this include..MechJeb ? Can it kill the crew here ?

Nevermind. Great parts Necro, congratulations !

[NecroBones]

I am so freakin' happy right now...

http://i.imgur.com/RfUGa3B.png

Discovery is ready to get under way. What could go wrong?

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't answer that.

So..does this include..MechJeb ? Can it kill the crew here ?

Nevermind. Great parts Necro, congratulations !

Heh, well it DOES contain a probe core, and lots of warning labels.

[AntiMatter001]

i'm very ashamed to say i haven't seen 2001: a space odyssey.... yet... it's in cinema next weekend!! I can't wait!

great work on the ship though. so far it looks like a good replica of pictures i've seen.

[Kerba Fett]

Really cool looking model. If you're thinking of doing other stuff based on the movie I'd like to request the Moon Bus. It seems like a nice little passenger transport that would fit in with KSP well.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=2001+moon+bus&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Php6VIWoD8-rjAKkooDoAg&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=912

[NecroBones]

Really cool looking model. If you're thinking of doing other stuff based on the movie I'd like to request the Moon Bus. It seems like a nice little passenger transport that would fit in with KSP well.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=2001+moon+bus&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Php6VIWoD8-rjAKkooDoAg&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=912

That would be cool! At some point I might try to circle back and make some of the other ships from the film, I'm just not sure when/if that'll happen yet.