What is purpose of Mobile processing lab

[KerikBalm]

You can already DL a custom biomes mod to add biomes to (almost) everything.

And I agree, reuse the lab I sent 1 mission to get Mun and Minmus biomes. I unlocked enough of the tech tree through contracts to get the grav detector/science lab/docking ports, too LV-Ns from an exerimental contract, and send a lander+ fuel depot to the mun.

In the end I got bored of the Mun before getting every single biome (I've done it in .22... or was it .23), and for less than 300 m/s dV, I moved the whole depot + lander into minmus orbit (includes capture burn).

No need to redeseign the lander, I simply loaded it with less fuel for each trip (to conserve fuel, though in the end, it seems I have plenty, and should have done a few more mun biomes before departure).

But I didn't even have orange tanks for that fuel depot, its a bit ugly, my duna and Jool mission will each have a lab of their own (since they will also be simultaneous).

In the end, I think I'll be leaving a lab in orbit around every planet (or one of the planets moons if not the planet).

I've got my moho lab on the way, my duna and Jool labs already launched, my Kerbin lab orbiting Minmus, so its just Dres and Eeloo now.

As I already said, I don't use TAC or anything like that, but I like to include it and a hitchhiker or 2 as its more living space for a more reasonable interplanetary craft

[capi3101]

They help to make all your base belong to us -

Seriously, I've found that their most valuable usage is as a storage module. Take a lab, add a docking port and a couple of fuel tanks to it, launch it to the Mun as an orbiting station. Then take a Geschosskopf Science Pack Lander, take off the top Mk-16 and replace it with a docking port, add a couple of roundified RCS tanks to the fuel pods and some RCS blocks to it. Use the Sci lander to go to the Mun, land, do science, take off, rendezvous with the lab, refuel the lander and store all the experiments in the lab, go back down to a different biome, rinse and repeat. Send the lab module back to Kerbin, recover it, profit. As others have stated, you can easily grind out the tech tree this way in only one or two missions.

[Geschosskopf]

Send the lab module back to Kerbin, recover it, profit. As others have stated, you can easily grind out the tech tree this way in only one or two missions.

The only hitch with sending the lab back to Kerbin is that if you've totally pillaged Mun or Minmus, you'll easily have dozens, maybe over 100, separate data sets in it. Because no other parts can hold that much data, the only practical option is to land the lab itself. This requires the following at a minimum:

1. A probe core so you can actually control the thing during descent and do important things like open the parachutes.

2. A battery or 2 to make sure the probe core is still alive when it's time to open the parachutes.

3. 4 of the big blue-tip chutes to get landing speed down to about 4m/s, which the lab will survive even splashing down.

Highly recommended to aim for the water so you don't have to watch all your hard-earned data roll down a mountainside and explode.

And thanks BTW for the prop on the lander .

[Hannu]

The only hitch with sending the lab back to Kerbin is that if you've totally pillaged Mun or Minmus, you'll easily have dozens, maybe over 100, separate data sets in it. Because no other parts can hold that much data, the only practical option is to land the lab itself. This requires the following at a minimum:

Lab is very difficult to land. I do not do that, because the first copy of science gives about 80 % of all points. Science is so abundant that return per cost and work is far too low for that last 20 %.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Hannu
Writing error.

[Geschosskopf]

Lab is very difficult to land.

No, it's actually pretty easy. All you need is 4 big blue chutes and a probe core. I land them all the time, sometimes even with lots more stuff attached to them. Such as in this adventure, where the lab was an integral part of the super-sized lander and I brought it all back home (for the recovery money).

[Frank327]

The "reset" function is only useful if you plan on doing more than 11 pairs of materials bay and goo experiments - which basically means only for cases where you visit more than 5 biomes (lets assume you do 2x experiments per biome).

In fact, the break even point is even beyond that if you use an orbiting lab (as I do), because you can use disposable mat and goo bays, and you don't have to haul them back up to orbit to be reset (and I lack the patience to rove all over the mun)

One goo + one materials bay: 350kg. One lab: 3.5 tons. So strictly speaking, the lab becomes interesting if you want to bring home more than twelve results. But who's gonna be strict about it? Taste and preferences are just as important.

A mobile processing lab becomes useful way earlier than that if you're doing apollo style missions. For example my mission to duna + ike had two science jr. and goo containers on the lander and a processing lab in the main module. The lander was really small, which was useful because it burned some 2k more dv than the main module.

[Laie]

The only hitch with sending the lab back to Kerbin is that if you've totally pillaged Mun or Minmus, you'll easily have dozens, maybe over 100, separate data sets in it. Because no other parts can hold that much data, the only practical option is to land the lab itself. This requires the following at a minimum:

(stuff)

Lab is very difficult to land. I do not do that, because the first copy of science gives about 80 % of all points.

Most of the science effort is getting there in the first place. May as well collect plenty of data while you're at it -- and although returning a lab isn't as simple as returning a pod, it isn't all that difficult either.

But... you can also use pods. They can hold no duplicates, but any amount of different results. If you want to return three results each from any number of biomes/situations, all you need is three pods. Either all together in a single vessel (Pecan has a nice three-cockpit spaceplane for that purpose) or individually.

[capi3101]

And thanks BTW for the prop on the lander .

No prob - that design is pretty much what I roll with these days.

If you were to attach lander legs to the bottom of the lab (perhaps on I-beams to widen the base?), do you think a safe ground landing would be possible?

I've also been playing around with including a lab module in a spaceplane; I've had success getting the design into orbit, less success on a proper landing (though that's mainly due to balancing issues inherent with spaceplanes in general - and I think I've got that problem ironed out with my latest design, if she can make orbit (which I have yet to test)). Same purpose.

[KerikBalm]

A mobile processing lab becomes useful way earlier than that if you're doing apollo style missions. For example my mission to duna + ike had two science jr. and goo containers on the lander and a processing lab in the main module. The lander was really small, which was useful because it burned some 2k more dv than the main module.

Huh?

It could be even lighter if you took data out of the mat bay and goo pod, and left them on Ike/Duna.

When you get back to orbit, you dock with another matbay+goo pod pack, and go down to duna.

Retreive data, and leave the mat bay+ good pod on the surface.

In this case, your lander is lighter, your mothership is lighter... win win...

[Laie]

It could be even lighter if you took data out of the mat bay and goo pod, and left them on Ike/Duna.

(etc)

Ahm... That's in space high, in space low and landed at for two bodies, plus upper/lower atmosphere for Duna. Eight situations, am I right?

We're approaching the regions where a lab becomes pretty interesting, at least if you want to return more than one result per situation.

[Geschosskopf]

If you were to attach lander legs to the bottom of the lab (perhaps on I-beams to widen the base?), do you think a safe ground landing would be possible?

You don't need the outriggers. Just put 4 of the big legs directly on the lab. Still only need 4x blue chutes and a probe core for this extra weight to get down safely. TBH, I usually put legs on my lab and try to land it at KSC, but it's really a better idea to drop it in the ocean so you don't risk landing on a mountain. For example:

This is 2 motherships docked nose-to-nose. The one with the returnable lab is on the right. As you can see, it's lab has a probe core, 4x blue chutes, and 4x big lander legs. That's what actually came down on Kerbin. The small rocket stage between the lab and the orange tank was to deorbit the lab, after which both it and the conical nose docking adaptor were jettisoned. This left the orange tank and the interplanetary drive unit in orbit to be refueled for another trip to Duna. The lander, shown here docked to the return ship, was actually left behind with the ship on the left, which became a permanent station at Duna (its lab served no real game function, just role-playing).

And here's the lab safely down almost at KSC. 4 big chutes and 4 legs is all you need.

I've also been playing around with including a lab module in a spaceplane; I've had success getting the design into orbit, less success on a proper landing (though that's mainly due to balancing issues inherent with spaceplanes in general - and I think I've got that problem ironed out with my latest design, if she can make orbit (which I have yet to test)). Same purpose.

I see this as more of a personal challenge than a practical way of doing things. Spaceplanes are a lot of time and effort (in design, testing, and then actually flying the mission) that produce something that's not as useful or capable as a rocket you can throw together in 5 minutes. And you don't lose enough money on disposable rocket parts to make it worth the trouble to do the spaceplane. So I only mess with them when I just want to be different.

Ahm... That's in space high, in space low and landed at for two bodies, plus upper/lower atmosphere for Duna. Eight situations, am I right?

We're approaching the regions where a lab becomes pretty interesting, at least if you want to return more than one result per situation.

The best way I've found to pillage Duna/Ike is as follows:

Ship:

Mobile lab that can land on Kerbin, a lander with all the science parts you have that can do Duna, and enough fuel to get all this there, move around within the system some, refuel the lander 3 times, and get the lab back home.

Mission Profile:

1. Leave Kerbin. As soon as you're out of Kerbin's SOI, get "high orbit over the sun" using the landers instruments. Transmit what you can, store the rest in the lab, and reset the goos and materials using the lab.

2. Arrive in Duna's SOI. Get "high orbit over Duna". Store data and reset instruments.

3. Aerocapture at Duna to put your Ap out by Ike's orbit. As you go by Duna, get "low orbit over Duna" data.

4. Enter Ike's SOI, get "high orbit over Ike" data.

5. Circularlize in low Ike orbit, get the data from there.

6. Land on Ike, get the data from the surface.

7. Return the lander to the mothership, move the whole show back to low Duna orbit.

8. Land on Duna, get data from the surface.

9. Return the lander to the mothership, refuel it, and send it down again. Get data "flying over Duna" data while hanging on parachutes just before touching down.

10. Return lander to the mothership, offload the data, and ditch the lander.

11. Return mothership to Kerbin, land the lab.

So, all 9 available situations totally pillaged in 1 trip.

[capi3101]

8. Land on Duna, get data from the surface.

What's your lander configuration typically like for Duna? You kinda skip over that bit in the Sci Pack tutorial; only reason why I ask. Same as Mun, or do you tweak it a bit?

[Geschosskopf]

What's your lander configuration typically like for Duna? You kinda skip over that bit in the Sci Pack tutorial; only reason why I ask. Same as Mun, or do you tweak it a bit?

You can see a Duna lander in my 1st pic above. It's the thing with 4 radial tanks docked on the side of the righthand orange tank. It's a bit bigger than a Mun lander.

Per the Delta-V map, it takes 2600m/s delta-V to make a round trip from LDO to the surface and back. Take that with a grain of salt. You can get by with less on the descent side by using chutes but due to Duna's thin air, you usually can't rely totally on chutes. OTOH, on the ascent you'll have to spend a bit more rendezvousing with the mothership. And then you want a safety margin, remembering that you might bugger up your chutes so they'll only work once (see below), in which case the 2nd landing will have to be all powered. So, I like to put 3000-3500 delta-V on my Duna landers, just to be safe.

As to reusing the chutes, if you go with stock, DO NOT EVER use spacebar to deploy them. If you stage stock chutes, they'll never work right again even if you repack them. So you'll need an action group to deploy the chutes. Plus some way to get a Kerbal close enough to them to repack them. Kerbals have a very long reach so you don't have to get all that close, and you can wait until you're back on the mothership, but I don't like to leave the ground without good chutes. But as you can see, you always run the risk of hitting the spacebar out of habit and ruining your chutes on the 1st landing. Alternatively, you can use the RealChutes mod. This does a couple good things for you. First, it means you can use fewer chute parts so everything is neater and less complicated. Second, you can stage RealChutes, repack them, and they'll work with staging again.

[tsotha]

The best way I've found to pillage Duna/Ike is as follows:

Taking eight materials bay/goo container pairs is less mass, particularly since you can get rid of them as they're used, e.g. ditch the "high orbit over the sun", "high orbit over Duna", and "low orbit over Duna" experiments before you do your Ike transfer burn. That's going to have a large effect on your dv.

Assuming you want to return to Kerbin, I can't see any reason for the mobile lab unless you're going to do more than eleven materials bay/goo container experiments or you intend to return multiple samples from the same biomes. Even in the second case it might make more sense to take extra capsules/lander cans instead.

IMO what they should do is remove the Kerbals from the lab and make it automated. Then it might useful for unmanned missions.

[Beachernaut]

I've been working through a career without transmitting any science. A science lab in orbit around mun allowed me to hit most of the biomes with 2 launches from Kerbin rather than a dozen. With some engines and a fuel tank attached it doesn't take all that much delta V to move that science lab from Mun orbit to Minmus orbit. So with 2 launches I was able to gather all of the science I wanted from both Mun and Minmus, then return the lab to Kerbin for maximum science points.

I recently brought back my science lab/mother ship from the Jool system. It consists of a large command module (can't remember exact name) with docking port on top, battery, science lab with 4 radial parachutes and 4 landing legs, then a decoupler with some tanks and LVNs below that. It packed a small lander with the science experiments on it's docking port. Unfortunately, my lander was a bit light when it came to Laythe and Tylo. Those were the only moons I didn't get "landed" science and surface samples for. Otherwise, it worked well and when it returned to Kerbin, my science lab was packing quite a lot of science.

Granted you can pack quite a lot of science experiments before you equal the weight of a science lab, but IMO that just over complicates ship design and I will ALWAYS forget something when things get complicated.

[KerikBalm]

Beacher- yes, the mun and minmus, with their many biomes, seem to be the best uses of the lab.

As far as storing multiple data entries: I think 4x mat bays are just wasteful for a lander. 2 entries is plenty IMO.

Also note, if you use the lab, you need a way to return 2 kerbals (assuming you don't send them on suicide missions) - and the most mass efficient way is 2x1 person capsules... ie, storage for 2 sets of data, that means I pretty much never bother to return a lab.

Also, as far as duna... I use a disposable science package for going to ike, rather than moving my entire lab into orbit, and then back to duna.

My duna lander also has the dV to go to Ike and back from dunar orbit, so, it seems worth it to take a disposabel package, rather than moving another 2.5 tons (plus fuel needed) to ike orbit and back to dunar orbit.

I also get the flying high, flying low, and surface reports all in one descent, and then ascend with a lander lacking any mat bay/goo pod.

The result: my lander is much smaller than what geschoss shows.

I use it for RP reasons, and for science farming mun and minmus in 1 mission, but I still think it needs a buff.

[tsotha]

Minmus actually works out better without the science lab.

[KerikBalm]

Well, Minmus would be just about "a wash" if you do 1x for each experiment.... 9 surface biomes+ high and low... sure the lander gets lighter after each biome...

But anyway, I do 1 large mission: Mun, then a transfer for 300m/s to Minmus

[Geschosskopf]

Taking eight materials bay/goo container pairs is less mass, particularly since you can get rid of them as they're used, e.g. ditch the "high orbit over the sun", "high orbit over Duna", and "low orbit over Duna" experiments before you do your Ike transfer burn. That's going to have a large effect on your dv.

But you leave a fairly large amount of science points on the table that way. And now in 0.25, if you're playing with some difficulty option or strategy that gives you less science per experiment than you normally get, leaving points unharvested is more of a bother than before.

Assuming you want to return to Kerbin, I can't see any reason for the mobile lab unless you're going to do more than eleven materials bay/goo container experiments or you intend to return multiple samples from the same biomes. Even in the second case it might make more sense to take extra capsules/lander cans instead.

The entire point of the lab is to return multiple samples from the same biome. If you're not going to do that, then sure, don't bother. But as I said, if you don't do multiple samples per biome, you leave enough points on the table to impact your progress, and it gets worse if you penalize your science-gathering with strategies and/or difficulty options.

IMO what they should do is remove the Kerbals from the lab and make it automated. Then it might useful for unmanned missions.

Why don't you do that yourself with Module Manager? It's a simple 1-line patch.

[Laie]

Beacher- yes, the mun and minmus, with their many biomes, seem to be the best uses of the lab.

A few posts back we've already seen that Duna, with two bodies and one atmosphere, may already justify a lab. Don't even get me started about the Jool system.

As far as storing multiple data entries: I think 4x mat bays are just wasteful for a lander. 2 entries is plenty IMO.

That's the result you have to come to when you're already determined not to bring a lab.

I've come to my decision pretty much the other way round: ran the numbers and found that a lab won't beggar me. I actually went so far as to include the lab in the lander (linked to pictures a few pages back) and boy is that ever convenient: wherever I go, I have the lab and crew with me. I can collect science as I find it and return as many results as I feel like. That convenience comes at a price, of course, but I find that it's totally worth it.

[tsotha]

Normally I take a ship to Minmus with 11 goo/Jr pairs and land in every biome. You've got me wondering what it would take to get a mobile lab there with enough fuel to clean everything out.

I tried a science mission to the Mun with a light lander and an orbital lab. It worked - I had enough fuel to land and return from every biome. It took for-freakin'-ever, though. All that docking was just tedious.

[Laie]

I tried a science mission to the Mun with a light lander and an orbital lab. It worked - I had enough fuel to land and return from every biome. It took for-freakin'-ever, though. All that docking was just tedious.

Minmus is a prime example of where it pays off to integrate the lab in the lander. Yes, the lander becomes heavier at first -- but then you can just hop from biome to biome without docking in-between. That saves a lot of fuel (and time!). It doesn't work as well on the Mun where gravity is higher and most biomes are farther apart: a practical amount of delta-V will only last you for about three to five biomes before you have to return to orbit for refueling, so whether you bring a lab or several science packages is a matter of taste.

But for purposes of sanity, it's better to touch off as many biomes as possible between dockings; even if you have mechjeb to plan it for you, much more so if you have to rely on stock tools.

[Geschosskopf]

Minmus is a prime example of where it pays off to integrate the lab in the lander. Yes, the lander becomes heavier at first -- but then you can just hop from biome to biome without docking in-between. That saves a lot of fuel (and time!). It doesn't work as well on the Mun where gravity is higher and most biomes are farther apart: a practical amount of delta-V will only last you for about three to five biomes before you have to return to orbit for refueling, so whether you bring a lab or several science packages is a matter of taste.

Yeah, lab-on-lander is great on Minmus. With Mun, I find the least bothersome way of doing this is to give the lander self-refueling capability. Because this has to be available everywhere, Kethane isn't an option; you need Karbonite or Interstellar, something on an OSR-based or -inspired system. This makes the lander big and cumbersome (like my Karbonite lander a few posts above), so it will require a big, cumbersome, expensive lifter to get to Mun to start with. But OTOH, a conventional lander with enough fuel for several hops is also going to be big and cumbersome, and in addition you'll have to lift all the extra fuel it will need to do the whole job, so a refueling lander ends up being the cheaper option. Plus of course you don't ever have to dock it, which saves time and hassle.