EVA Ejects at High Velocity [.25]

[micha]

Well, it took me a while but I think I finally cracked into this one. If you aren't opposed to add-ons, check out my stock bug fix add-ons. I've just uploaded v0.1 of my EVA Ejection fix.

W00t!

You, sir, have allowed me to finally enjoy playing 0.25!

I can confirm that my Kerbal's consistently grab the ladder on EVA now, regardless of whether clicking on the EVA button on the PIP or via the Hatch (I didn't even know that clicking the hatch brought up an EVA menu before this issue..)

However, despite being 75km up (so well outside the atmosphere), said Kerbal's are still slowly sliding down and off the ladder. So yes, your fix solves the ejection/non-grabby issue, but not overall EVA. Still, it's no worse than 0.24 now.

Thanks muchly!

[Claw]

W00t!

You, sir, have allowed me to finally enjoy playing 0.25!

Thanks muchly!

You are quite welcome. That's always my goal.

I can confirm that my Kerbal's consistently grab the ladder on EVA now, regardless of whether clicking on the EVA button on the PIP or via the Hatch (I didn't even know that clicking the hatch brought up an EVA menu before this issue..)

However, despite being 75km up (so well outside the atmosphere), said Kerbal's are still slowly sliding down and off the ladder. So yes, your fix solves the ejection/non-grabby issue, but not overall EVA. Still, it's no worse than 0.24 now.

Thank you for the report back. Obviously I tested it, but it's hard to test in depth when I went crosseyed from working on it.

I was able to reduce the initial ladder slide, but not eliminate it. That will require more work and I thought it would be nice to not delay the ejection fix.

Enjoy!

~Claw

[SkyRender]

"Ladder drift" is a long-running problem, actually. It can even happen on the surface of a celestial body (sometimes to absurd degrees; try landing on the north pole of the Mun and see how fast your Kerbal launches up the ladder he's ostensibly holding onto!). As for the EVA "blast-off" problem, there's two main causes. Cause #1 (which most people experience) is that Kerbals try to hold onto ladders based on their current camera orientation. If their positioning is not parallel to the hatch, they'll fling themselves around like ragdolls. This can happen even when getting out of the capsule, and is a good reason to keep your capsules oriented north-south when getting out of them. Cause #2 is having any sort of part which juts out over the top of the command pod. Even though it's not obstructing the hatch, it will cause your Kerbal to do some pretty crazy acrobatics (how crazy depending on how much headroom they've got getting out of their capsule).

[Claw]

All very true, but there is also a newer problem in 0.25 where the kerbals are much more prone to flinging themselves off of nothing more than a Mk1 capsule.

The flinging is because part of the kerbal animation while exiting the hatch intersects the capsule's collision mesh, imparting a force on the kerbal's helmet. The second problem is that the kerbal isn't always grabbing the ladder. Add the two together and the kerbal is launched fairly frequently when going EVA, even if nothing is attached to the pod.

Cheers,

-Claw

[DBowman]

Claw - will the EVA fix work also for Command Chair issues?

I made a core with a seat and hyper-edited to orbit. On leaving the chair the Kerbal always looks like he's been flung out of the chair at some speed.

On the ground when I had tested the same with some oct struts and a docking port above the Kerbal would launch himself with so much force that he vaporized against the docking port. Clearly in that case more 'headroom' required, but even on a ship with head-room it seems like the Kerbal could be flung into geometry and then spin off into space. I remember recently getting flung a few km before getting control/oriented.

I'll play around with the orientation as you indicate above.

[Claw]

Claw - will the EVA fix work also for Command Chair issues?

No. Command chairs act differently than capsule type objects.

I made a core with a seat and hyper-edited to orbit. On leaving the chair the Kerbal always looks like he's been flung out of the chair at some speed.

Pictures and/or a .craft file (if it's stock) would be incredibly helpful to diagnose your particular issue. Command chairs with stuff around them can definitely cause problems.

Cheers,

~Claw

[Padishar]

Also, trying to dock a vessel that has a kerbal in a command seat is known to give problems. The jolt as the docking ports engage (even at speeds of less than 0.1 m/s) often flings the kerbal out of his seat and through a nearby bit of rocket. I know kerbals are a brave (and somewhat foolhardy) lot but surely they would have invented some kind of seatbelt/harness that would prevent this happening at reasonable speeds...

[Claw]

Also, trying to dock a vessel that has a kerbal in a command seat is known to give problems. The jolt as the docking ports engage (even at speeds of less than 0.1 m/s) often flings the kerbal out of his seat and through a nearby bit of rocket. I know kerbals are a brave (and somewhat foolhardy) lot but surely they would have invented some kind of seatbelt/harness that would prevent this happening at reasonable speeds...

Pictures and details and I'll see about adding it to my list.

~Claw

[Padishar]

Pictures and details and I'll see about adding it to my list.

That might be tricky, I experienced it a long time ago (0.23?) when docking a rover to a station in Mun orbit. I'll try to dig up what info I can (I may have a save floating around somewhere though it won't be much help)...

Edit: found it, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66661-Any-way-to-dock-without-killing-Jeb

Edited October 30, 2014 by Padishar

[DBowman]

Claw

I'll make some img/craft files for you - all stock.

The simple case was literally small Probe + seat on top center (+girder and capsule hanging off the back to get the Kerbal on the pad).

Padishar - now that you mention it that 'thrown from chair on docking' has happened to me a couple times.

[DBowman]

I did some more tests, I'll figure out imgur and .craft - but it should be easy to reproduce with the details I'll include here. fwiw I did improve my eva skills/comfort while doing the tests.

Test rig 1: small thin probe core, seat on top (orientation occupant 'upright'), capsule underneath.

Tests leave seat from Kerbin 80km orbit, control from here on cap:

- oriented North: I did multiple tests where the occupant ended up just kind of floppy 'tangled' with the seat and the seat being rendered maybe 1m off the probe core. On activating 'R' the astronaut would thrash around, pop out of the seat with some random velocity & tumble and the seat would 'return' to attachment to the core.

- I repeated the above today to get some screen shots. For some reason it was fairly well behaved today. I'd leave, recover, board, repeat so suit RC was on except for the first test and he thrashed himself out of the seat and would be oriented after 20 - 25 m

- oriented Down: on 'leave' the astronaut was flung Up (through the cap) much harder than the North orientation

Then I made a new test rig by adding oct struts and docking port; 1 strut at 45 degrees on the edge of the probe, 4 on that vertically, a couple to make a docking mount above the seat.

- on the pad leave seat tests had the astronaut thrash in the seat with enough force to topple the capsule. When I turned on the sas he ejected with enough force to be rendered 'non responsive'.

- in orbit facing Down he was popped out hard enough to break a solar array

- in orbit facing Up he generally tumbled out and could be recovered within 20m, sometimes he was 'non responsive' but cycling to the cap and back would make him respond.

It seems like the current behavior is much more painful than it needs to be, it's pretty unrealistic - I'd imagine astronauts would be pretty careful getting 'steady' and 'clear of obstruction' before they 'release' & start RCSing. I don't know if one could 'tune down' collision forces between astronaut and craft temporarily to get nicer behavior without having to do anything 'clever' or invasive re the existing animates etc etc.

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Edited November 1, 2014 by DBowman
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[Claw]

I did some more tests... Snippity snip

This is great info, thanks! The command seat thing is definitely a different animal than the capsule EVA ejection. I will add this to my list of things to look at, but it's turning into a long list.

Cheers!

~Claw

[Dre4dW0rm]

Well, problems like this one, and inability to go back to the command module due to kerbals shooting off the ladder or hatch are there since the very beginning. It's just not important enough for the ksp dev team to actually fix it.

[Zalym]

Well, it took me a while but I think I finally cracked into this one. *snip*

~Claw

On man, thank you for this fix! I had not played since .22/.23.5 and when I EVA'd with .25 the other day, I thought I was losing my mind. I checked part placement around the door, tried to remember if this always happened and I just forgot....it was getting kind of squirrely. Anyway, thanks again and I hope this is something the devs are able to fix in the future - it's no good slamming into solar panels just because Bill wants to practice his handstand, triple twist with a flip for the Kerbal Olympic diving team while he's popping out of a tiny capsule into the void space.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Zalym

[Cailean_556]

I have this problem in my current game when landing on the Mun. I have noticed an increase in HVE (High Velocity Ejections) since 0.25, as I've never used to have this problem. I landed my most complex lunar lander (complex in terms of staging) on the Mun without a hitch. Plenty of fuel to get back. Figured I should do the whole "Let's get out and take some samples and plant a flag or something" thing. I should not listen to my inner Munar surface explorer... Not only did my poor little Kerbal (JEB!) get HVE'd, the game screen goes to black. I press ESC, return to the space centre - still a black screen with only the exit button and a couple other bits of HUD displayed. Quit out of the game, restart and my X-05 lander is doing 4km/s away from the Mun - in pieces - with poor little Jeb MIA...

If this is how my manned missions are going to go, there's no point - I can achieve the same effect with unmanned misisons and a butt-load of 'Transmit Data from Orbit' contracts... Very sad panda...

[Snowman]

Claw - Thanks so much, I can dare to EVA again. Your mod, presented earlier in this thread, works perfectly to prevent ejection.

I never had an issue in 0.18 (though I was mostly using the 3 Kerbal capsule). I believe something was broken in the subsequent releases.

The bug is still there 0.90 - they should really fix this for noobs. My scenario was the 1 Kerbal capsule on a trivial rocket well beyond the atmosphere, just trying to get science!

Regarding the sliding on the ladder issue - I encountered it on 1/3 of the EVAs I tested with your mod. To address, a quick "space, F" sequence always worked for me. Perhaps that would be a good enhancement for the mod - not clear why "space, F" has a different result from your current code.

[PTNLemay]

Was this ever addressed? I didn't play 0.25 as much as I would have liked, but I'm attempting a full career mode campaign in 0.90 and I'm REALLY noticing it.

I'm attempting a mission that requires me to make multiple crew reports around the moon and I can't even step out of the capsule to refresh the reports. He gets flung at ridiculous speeds. I could use the RCS packs to get him back onto the ladder but by then I will have passed over my target area.

[Claw]

Claw - Thanks so much, I can dare to EVA again. ...

Regarding the sliding on the ladder issue...

Thanks, and I'm glad it's helping you out. This problem was first noticed in 0.25.

Space-F works because I have code in my mod which essentially freezes the kerbal when they initially EVA. Getting the slide to stop after you start moving around has been more difficult. But I fully agree with you, it would make a great addition! (Once I figure out how. )

Was this ever addressed?

I thought it was fixed in 0.90, but it looks like it wasn't. However, if you aren't opposed to mods, you can download a set of stock bug fixes that I have built from here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97285-0-25-Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules

That pack of fixes includes a few things, including a fix for a new save breaker bug in v0.90 as well as this EVA ejection problem.

Cheers,

~Claw

[PTNLemay]

I see... thanks for taking the time with the fix.