Making Launch Window Planners and Ejection Angle Calculators as Standard KSP Features

[rodion_herrera]

While I enjoy every new thing that Squad puts into KSP each time a new version comes out, I've always wondered why certain things that I feel need to be "standard" are still being left out. Aside from making the game "feel" like a different game, my idea why mods exist is a player felt that a certain feature has been left out of a game, and thus he/she made that mod to augment a certain necessary function, to make it more convenient for a player to use such a function within the game. The recent changes/enhancements to the nav ball is a good example of what I mean. I've always felt that the nav ball should have been like this since the very early versions, and I'm very happy with the recent enhancements to it. I believe that if this wasn't implemented as a standard feature, someone would eventually make a mod that would feature functionality similar to it.

But, I've always wondered why some things that I felt were integral to KSP gameplay, are still only available as mods or an external "app". Such is the case of ejection angle planners or calculators. I hate the hassle of having to ALT-TAB and visit these pages:

http://ksp.olex.biz/

alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

just to plan my trips to the outer planets.

Yes, I know that it's part of the KSP challenge and experience to be able to figure these things out on your own, but then, flying (defined as the deliberate act of using the arrow keys or equivalent key bindings, to point the nose of your spacecraft into the intended heading/direction) well has also been much of a manual endeavor in the early versions of the game, until SAS and ASAS came along, and etc. So I was thinking, why not integrate such calculators as part of the KSP spacecraft instrumentation, but can only be available once that part become unlocked in the tech tree. So in the early stages of the game, say, before you reach Duna or Eve (using "standard" difficulty), you'd be forced to figure out ejection ejection angles purely on your own. But later, once you get more science in, you can unlock parts that will allow you access to an internal, integrated ejection angle or launch window planner, in the same function and style as the navball or map view. I believe this will significantly improve playability, esp. when preventing player from having to rely on external apps to help with ejection planning and navigation chores.

Edited October 9, 2014 by rodion_herrera

[prophet_01]

I am fine with the maneuver nodes tbh. I know that it's more precise to do it with ejection angles, but it's not worth the trouble for me. Afterall, Ksp is a game and not an orbiter like hardcore simulation.

I rly enjoy the fact that there are mods that provide the mechanics to use real life methods, but I would rather like a more precise maneuver node mechanic with the option to input numbers.

On the launch window planer, that would come in handy and I would definetly use it. Wouldn't be my priority on the wishlist, but it could reduce the planing time a lot. At the moment it takes quite some time plan interplanetary transfers (although it takes me significantly longer to adjust the node precisely)

[Laie]

I am fine with the maneuver nodes tbh. I know that it's more precise to do it with ejection angles, but it's not worth the trouble for me.

How do you know when and where to place the maneuver?

[Mecripp]

There are a handful of mods that give you the info Void and MJ and you might check this one http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/224116-transfer-window-planner

[Guest]

"SQUAD wants us to use trial and error approach" - quote from similar thread.

Like:

Sent crewed mission to Jool - lost it ... sent - lost it, sent - lost it. Not so funny to me, that's why I use KER, KAC and Protractor almost from the start.

SQUAD have other opinion on that matter.

[Sky_walker]

"SQUAD wants us to use trial and error approach" - quote from similar thread.

Like:

Sent crewed mission to Jool - lost it ... sent - lost it, sent - lost it. Not so funny to me,

Welcome to the club.

Sit here, please. Cookies on a left, coffee in the corner.

First huge breakthrough we await for would be for devs to implement rocket tonnage, thrust, WTR, and delta-V visible in a stock game.

If that ever happens - then perhaps suggestion from this thread got a chance to be implemented.

[prophet_01]

Yep basic numbers on mass, twr and delta-v would rly enhance the stock gameplay. Honestly, I've never stumbled across a threat saying "I don't want more info on my vessels"

On the how do I do interplanetary maneuvers post: place a node that would take you just out of kerbins soi. Place another node on the planed course and make it reach for the planets orbit around the sun (basic hohman). Drag the second node around until you get an intercept with the planet. Look at the second nodes time and add roughly 10 days (depending how fast you are going to leave kerbins soi). Thats an aproximation to the launch window. Tweak it a little and your good to go. It's a lot easyer if you can insert some numbers to the nodes by using mods like precise nodes or mechjebs maneuver node tool.

Most of the time I am too lazy to alttab and do it that way although it most likely takes more time

[Hannu]

This is very good idea, if it is implemented well. It means, that there is porkchop plot calculator and tools to determine accurate initial orbits and exact launch times when you get correct INC and LAN to optimal injection burn. And it should be able to handle KSP's patched conic physics and give accurate predictions to even hardest transfers (to Moho and between Jool's moons). It is also nice to have a porkchop plot in one window and see changes of orbit in another, when you move mouse over plot. However, i doubt that this kind of nerdy stuff is not in SQUAD's interests in foreseeable future, if ever. We have practically no information about orbits and superprimitive maneuver planning and orbit prediction system. Mechjeb's information and functionality should be absolute minimum level in this kind of game.

[Mr Shifty]

But, I've always wondered why some things that I felt were integral to KSP gameplay, are still only available as mods or an external "app". Such is the case of ejection angle planners or calculators. I hate the hassle of having to ALT-TAB and visit these pages:

http://ksp.olex.biz/

alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

TriggerAu's [thread=93115]Transfer Window Planner mod[/thread] is an in-game version of Alex Moon's trajectory planner and his [thread=24786]Kerbal Alarm Clock mod[/thread] has had olex's ejection angle information in it for over a year.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Mr Shifty

[rodion_herrera]

TriggerAu's [thread=93115]Transfer Window Planner mod[/thread] is an in-game version of Alex Moon's trajectory planner and his [thread=24786]Kerbal Alarm Clock mod[/thread] has had olex's ejection angle information in it for over a year.

I guess that's why I didn't know about it--I rarely use mods. My point is, to make it a standard feature.

[Red Iron Crown]

TriggerAu's [thread=93115]Transfer Window Planner mod[/thread] is an in-game version of Alex Moon's trajectory planner and his [thread=24786]Kerbal Alarm Clock mod[/thread] has had olex's ejection angle information in it for over a year.

Mechjeb has one now too, and it creates the maneuver node automatically. Good to see several choices available for delicious in-game porkchops now.

As for the OP's suggestion, some sort of interplanetary planning tool would be fantastic in the stock game. Getting interplanetary transfers by trial-and-error is extremely time consuming and not enjoyable. I suspect from reading around here that a large fraction of the player base rarely if ever leaves Kerbin's SoI, and I think part of the reason why is the lack of planning tools. Even Maxmaps asked for a phase angle when doing a Duna transfer in the Squadcast before last. Leaving this sort of critical info out of the game does it no favors, if players have to resort to external references or tools the game has failed them.

That said, I'm not sure a proper porkchop plotter belongs in the stock game, much as I'd love to have one. It may be more complex than what is desired. Maybe just reveal ideal phase angles in some graphical manner in map view. Messing around with ejection angles and maneuver nodes is not as costly time-wise as trying all the different phase angles.

5thHorseman has shared in his videos a method for using successive maneuver nodes to calculate IP transfers in stock, while it is clever and works it is not easily discoverable for most players. Most would have to watch one of his videos to understand it, and then we're back to requiring external references.

[DBowman]

I agree something to support IP transfers would improve the game, I'll have to read up on pork chops though. There must be an approach that could keep the 'self discoverable / seat of the pants' feel that makes Kerbals Kerbals.

[Laie]

I agree something to support IP transfers would improve the game, I'll have to read up on pork chops though. There must be an approach that could keep the 'self discoverable / seat of the pants' feel that makes Kerbals Kerbals.

Go to Alex Moon's planner and see what it spits out: that's a pork chop plot. It should be immediately obvious how it got it's name.

But you only really need them if you have life support or some other reason why travel time matters. For the stock game, it would be enough if you had a calender somewhere, "next transfer window to destination comes up in n days". The finished game should include something like Kerbal Alarm Clock anyway.

[prophet_01]

Yep red crown has a point here. The time consuming process of planing a transfer and the fact that there isn't much to see aside from the joolian system is a reason why maybe 1 out of 10 of my missions will ever leave kerbins soi. It's just not that much fun with all the planing involved, even with mechjeb or another tool to help me speed up things. I rather design a new launch vehicle (I love shuttles, as inefficint as they can be )

If you already visited those less exciting rocks once, there isn't a reason to do it again. The mun is a lot more interesting than the other bodies that lack atmosphere

[Tw1]

I had an concept for something like this in another thread, where discussion turned to mission planning features.

I agree, mission planning of some sort makes sense to be included eventually.

I'm torn between wanting it in the Tracking Station, or in Mission Control.

The Tracking Station makes sense, as the solar system map is already loaded.

But as this is about planning your missions, it would be nice to have it in Mission Control. As well as the manoeuvre node planner, they could have other info- maybe a porkchop plot generator, based of alexmoon's one, and a little explanation how it works. If "We don't want to take the trial and error out by giving you a delta V counter" is still a thing, they could not give you a delta V value, and just have it show "most efficient", and "least efficient"

Or at very least, a one dimensional version that shows no arrival date.

It could have different features to the map view in Tracking station:

• The ability to time warp forwards and backwards, without changing the "real" world. A fast forward to date would be useful to.
  
• The ability to start a node from a point on the ground, or from any ship.
  
• Maybe a tally off all the manoeuvre nodes? Or list of all nodes, and their info, letting you select each?
  
• Perhaps allowing two strings of manoeuvre nodes at once, so you can plan arrivals of two ships, or use one as a target orbit for something that's not there yet.
  
• Manuver nodes that you planned here could be saved to the ship you planned them on, or transferred to a ship you've newly put on the Launchpad/Runway.
  
• As an alternative to the Porkchop plot thing proposed above, they could have something that shows the phase angle between the body you're near/ focused on, and your target. This could go from red to green as you reach the optimal angle.
  http://gsa.thegamernation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Con5.jpg
  Though I prefer the other idea.
  

I think it should be harder, if not not possible to load a ship from this mission planning screen, to reduce the chance of accidents. Perhaps switching to ships could be done like in the space centre scene.

The main problems I see with not having it in the tracking station are-

• People could go to the tracking station by mistake. Or, they go there, then decide they want to test something first, and have to go back to the space centre, then to mission control. That's a lot more loading time than just switching a few features off.
  But maybe it's time they let us go straight from one building to another.
  
• If switching and finding asteroids can be done from there, it would make the Tracking Station redundant. The tracking station would need more tracking stuff features.
  

I think we're fine without it, but it would be useful, for bigger missions and planing gravity assists. Plus, more planning tools fleshes it out more, and would be good for immersion. Less use of outside tools, and all this planning would feel more like you're running a space program.