Planes fall apart upon loading the runway scene

[bmyers831]

Update: This seems to be fixed in Modular Fuel Tanks 5.2.2.

KSP 25, lots of mods, nearly all of which have been upgraded to ksp 25 versions. 32-bit install.

When I go to launch the plane will 1) fall apart the moment it becomes active on the runway. 2) the center of mass starts to shift around. 3) At least one part will remain "attached" even after the part it was attached to has fallen off.

I've built many planes, large and small and I know how to strut them together. This is on a minimal plane with or without modded parts.

I'll be troubleshooting this when I get home from work tonight... it would be great to have somebody save time if they have seen this before and know what it is. The only similar forum post I've found was with stock parts on a complex craft that needed struts.

Here is what the bug looks like:

http://youtu.be/aMe79mvxEbY Using a mix of stock and B9 parts. Watch till the end to see the center of mass moving around. I can tell because the center of view starts moving without me doing anything.

http://youtu.be/gWFNVsOr7Qw Using stock parts only but with mods installed. On this one the engine still works even though the part it was attached to has fallen off the craft.

I did do a test with all mods removed and the bug doesn't happen then on the same plane used in the stock parts video above.

Tonight when I get home from work I'll have time to start narrowing down install to isolate the cause.

-Bryan

UPDATE:

While driving to work I was thinking about this and it's likely two mods conflicting. It's to obvious to fly under the radar of a developer testing just his/her mod.

Q: Are the parts clickable?

Yes the parts laying on the ground are still right clickable. They highlight and the menu appears. As the plane moves forward they are left behind of course. This may explain some of the shifting mass (though the mass shifts more than you would expect. On the first video the parts stay above ground but center of mass drops below it). TAC life support detects that they have fallen off as it reports 0 resources. Interestingly, the nose of the craft is still angled like it is being supported by rear landing gear even those are now on parts laying around the runway.

I did delete FAR and re-downloaded/installed a fresh FAR 14.2. No luck.

Here is a link to my mod spreadsheet which I'm 99% sure accurately reflects what is currently inside my gamedata, complete with mod version numbers.

Here is a link to the game log file.

Here is a screen shot of my game data folder.

Edited October 20, 2014 by bmyers831
Added new info

[Tw1]

That's quite some bug. Where you still able to click on parts that had dropped, as if they were part of the same ship, or did they properly fall off?

I'm wondering if the camera wierdness in one of those videos is another bug that sometimes happens, or just the result of the COM not being inside the part of the craft that's flying.

A quick way to show all your mods is to screenshot your gamedata folder, but I'm pretty sure those clever modder people can also work it out if you give them the output log (in KSP data).

[nli2work]

try a fresh install of FAR. I had similar issues last night after partially updating FAR with a new build. Everything went back to normal after I replaced all my old files with ones from github.

[bmyers831]

Update- I did some mod narrowing at lunch.

1) Pulled Crossfeedenabler, Ferram, modular fuel tanks. SUCCESS

2) Put back in CFE and MFT but kept out Ferram. FAILED

3) Pulled only Modular Fuel Tanks. SUCCESS

4) Tried pulling everything from my gamedata folder except Squad and Modular Fuel Tanks. SUCCESS.

I thought test 4 would be the smoking gun but now tt appears that Modular Fuel Tanks and SOMETHING are conflicting.

More later....

Edited October 13, 2014 by bmyers831
added 2

[bmyers831]

Well if I take out enough mods it works but it MFT seems to conflict with more than one mod.

As I haven't used MFT before this I'm just going to take it out and keep playing.

[NathanKell]

Try updating to the current release of MFT, and make sure all the mods you have are their absolute latest versions (note a lot have updated over the last few days), then post log again? Clearly MFT is throwing, but it's unclear whether it's a KSPAPIExtensions conflict or something else.

[Ruedii]

I've encountered a similar bug with rockets on FAR (except a tad more explosive). It seemed to be fixed by either disabling aerodynamic failures or installing Kerbal Joint Reenforcement.

Additionally, make sure all your mods are running the latest version of KSPAPIExtensions. You can get the updated DLL from the KSPAPIExtensions GitHub page.

[bmyers831]

Thanks Ruedii. yeah I'm all too familiar with the consequences of not flying well when using FAR

This one is/was very different.

Nathan- all mods latest version.

I see Mod fuel tanks has been updated due to some "conflict with KSPAPI". I'll give it a try.

[Excrubulent]

Got the same issue, except it only happens after closing the game and reloading a flight in progress.

Got this beast into orbit:

Then the next day loading it back in:

Ouch. That's approximately a 350,000 monies ship lost there, plus my most senior of Kerbals, unless I can figure out how to stop this bug.

I don't have modular fuel tanks installed myself, here's my GameData folder:

It also happened with another spaceplane I was using, much smaller and simpler. I got it into orbit around the Mun, including a bunch of reloads along the way. Then after closing the game and reloading the ship later, kaboom. Sometimes bits explode and sometimes they don't, but it always winds up as an unrecoverable mess.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Excrubulent

[bmyers831]

I used to try and hide my batteries and antenna inside the ship. They always seemed to be okay, I even got them up 2 mun or minmus but sometime later they would have spontaneous explosion. Reloads were probably involved too. Are you doing that?

[Master Tao]

@Excrubulent:

Update your mods and install them correctly. The How to Get Support (READ FIRST) sticky has guidelines for how to install mods if you're not sure.

The obvious example is Kerbal Alarm Clock, which I can tell is outdated because you haven't installed it correctly. Based on the dates, Active Texture Management and ResearchThemAll! are similarly outdated. dtobi's Klockheed Martian parts (Space Shuttle Engines, Smart Parts, Special Parts) are discontinued and haven't been updated for KSP 0.25; use at your own risk.

If that doesn't fix it, please provide the log (details in the Support sticky above).

@bymyers831:

That sounds like normal part clipping issues. Have you been able to solve the original problem?

[Excrubulent]

I am using part clipping. I'm using a shape that clips through the wings to make the engines more aerodynamic. I need to do that because I'm using FAR. This never happened before 0.25, and now it's happened twice in a row. I've updated all my mods, including the 0.25 updated Firespitter dll.

EDIT: Didn't see Master Tao's post. I'll try updating those parts. The Klockheed Martian parts are included in B9, if I'm not mistaken.

[Master Tao]

The Klockheed Martian parts are included in B9, if I'm not mistaken.

You're right, it's the KM plugin, so hopefully it's fine. I haven't had a chance to play around with the new B9 since it was updated for 0.25 today. Update that one, too.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Master Tao
words, or lack thereof

[Excrubulent]

The obvious example is Kerbal Alarm Clock, which I can tell is outdated because you haven't installed it correctly.

What do you mean I haven't installed it correctly? Do you mean it's got a notification in the screenshot telling me it's outdated, or is there something else?

EDIT: Okay, I figured it out. The folder should be TriggerTech, not the mod name.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Excrubulent

[Excrubulent]

You're, it's the KM plugin, so hopefully it's fine. I haven't had a chance to play around with the new B9 since it was updated for 0.25 today. Update that one, too.

Oh, wow. I was just going by what ModuleManager was flagging. I need a better way to keep track of this stuff.

[Excrubulent]

Okay, I've updated everything I've got now. Now apart from KM, NASAMission and Squad folders, everything in my GameData folder is newer than the 16th of this month. The problem remains, but looking at the mission log, it's different each time, and it's not clipped parts that are colliding with each other, it's parts that are directly connected to one another.

I've also had once or twice where the wings flew off, but there were no explosions, and nothing in the log. Nope. Nothing has gone wrong at all. Also, your wings are over there now.

Should I start a new thread about this?

[Master Tao]

Should I start a new thread about this?

Superficially, this is an extremely similar problem, so lets keep them together until we know they're different.

Try the latest dev build of MJ: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

I just learned that the version on Curse is actually 2.3.0, not 2.4.0, which explains why you have that (and maybe why there are two of them in the second screenshot).

After that, please post a log.

[bmyers831]

Master Tao- I just tried Modular Fuel tanks 5.2.2 which fixes an issue it had with the KSPAPI extension and now the planes that had this problem are fine. Thanks

[Excrubulent]

Just updated MechJeb to 2.4.0.0, no dice.

Here's the log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0rw0bwsfbhplzsu/output_log.7z?dl=0

I've never really trawled through these before, but from what I can see the procedural wings start with a different momentum to the rest of the craft. Any short term solution, so I can at least rescue my craft before this mod gets fixed?

EDIT: I X'd out of the game right after the wings came off, so the incident is right at the end of the log.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Excrubulent

[Excrubulent]

Okay, on the main thread for procedural wings, here, they're talking about the issue. I'll report back here if they find a fix.

[Excrubulent]

Okay, on the main thread for procedural wings, here, they're talking about the issue. I'll report back here if they find a fix.

Okay, they fixed it. The latest version, 0.9.1, fixes my issue.