Good news everyone! KSP enters Beta version. What you like the most, what you don't?

[KasperVld]

So, it seams that my previous posts were not exaggerated when I said something about Squad "copy" mods to implement on the game or in future releases. Guess I'm not the only one thinking like that....

Just because two people share a thought does not mean it's true. We'll see what happens.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

As I think has been pointed out before, there are very few things that squad might implemented that haven't already been implemented in some form in mods, so they'll either buy a mod and integrate it, then be accused of mooching off other's work, or they'll do their own thing, and be accused of mooching off what others have done because it's really similar to what a mod has done because really, what can they do at this point which isn't? But if they don't implement the mod, then they are leaving out a critical function of the game. *shrugs*

[EladDv]

i would love if squad put some check boxes near some realistic features that could make the game lees fun for some people like deadly reentry and life support and if they are getting far and near into the game a switch between the two

[stupid_chris]

So, it seams that my previous posts were not exaggerated when I said something about Squad "copy" mods to implement on the game or in future releases. Guess I'm not the only one thinking like that....

Y'all aware that FAR/NEAR can't really be implemented into the game because the GPL license it's under does not really allow that? GPL is pretty complicated on that regards. Even if ferram agreed to it, that does not allow the work to be in the game per the license.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Y'all aware that FAR/NEAR can't really be implemented into the game because the GPL license it's under does not really allow that? GPL is pretty complicated on that regards. Even if ferram agreed to it, that does not allow the work to be in the game per the license.

Also, doesn't FAR/NEAR kind of shoehorn proper aerodynamic calculations into the game? I'm not a modder so I might be wrong, but wouldn't that sort of coding be rather different than integrating it into the game proper?

[Alshain]

Y'all aware that FAR/NEAR can't really be implemented into the game because the GPL license it's under does not really allow that? GPL is pretty complicated on that regards. Even if ferram agreed to it, that does not allow the work to be in the game per the license.

Assuming all the work has been done by ferram4 (or the license provides any contributions become his), he has the right to change the license from GPL, so if ferram4 agreed to it he could in fact allow it to be in the game. However, he can only apply that to future releases. Existing code already released under GPL will still be GPL, you can't allow people to make their own forks following one rule set and then come back and prosecute ex post facto. For a license to remove the owner's right to choose a new license, that would be counter productive.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Alshain

[EladDv]

Y'all aware that FAR/NEAR can't really be implemented into the game because the GPL license it's under does not really allow that? GPL is pretty complicated on that regards. Even if ferram agreed to it, that does not allow the work to be in the game per the license.

why? i would have thought that if the mod and Squad agree to the implementation for payment it would work?

[SelectHalfling0]

I feel like what they announced is only what they are certain they will implement. Don't forget KSP just updated. They are still in early development of the next update

[KasperVld]

I'd like to make a point about a message that was posted in this thread where it was suggested that Squad could label the beta, or for that matter any version of KSP before the final release (or what is called 1.0), as a new program, requiring you to repurchase the game - while at the same time restricting access to already released versions of the game. I can say, confirmed by Squad, that these scenarios are false. KSP is KSP and the terms of purchase are very clear and will be honoured.

[Levelord]

Y'all aware that FAR/NEAR can't really be implemented into the game because the GPL license it's under does not really allow that? GPL is pretty complicated on that regards. Even if ferram agreed to it, that does not allow the work to be in the game per the license.

How do GPL licenses work? I've never heard of it before and from the sounds of it, it seems to function in a weird way.

[EladDv]

I'd like to make a point about a message that was posted in this thread where it was suggested that Squad could label the beta, or for that matter any version of KSP before the final release (or what is called 1.0), as a new program, requiring you to repurchase the game - while at the same time restricting access to already released versions of the game. I can say, confirmed by Squad, that these scenarios are false. KSP is KSP and the terms of purchase are very clear and will be honoured.

as if they would have done that they would have been susceptible to a lawsuit which i assure you they are smart enough to not get into (plus there is that thing called honour and dignity)

[[email protected]]

I don't realistically think SQUAD will ever be able to sufficiently develop KSP for me to consider it a full game. At least not with the size of the dev team. I'm not really concerned with them adding parts, life support, clouds, weather systems, better textures, reentry shock heating, better parachutes, or much of what a myriad of mods can do.

I'd rather see them add new functionality to the game that does not exist and update a few systems that desperately need it (aerodynamics) so that our huge community of talented modders can take advantage of those systems to bring us new content.

I'm not diminishing Squad at all, I love the game they have created in spite of their tiny team and meager resources, but lets not lie to ourselves and pretend that the stock game is even remotely polished or complete- or ever will be ( I don't care if you call it 1.0 or not). It is apparent Squad simply lacks the resources to do it. The community has outgrown the stock game, sure some diehard Kerbonauts still play it that way, but I doubt its the norm in the community. The game really shines once its modded to the breaking point.

[Sky_walker]

Assuming all the work has been done by ferram4 (or the license provides any contributions become his), he has the right to change the license from GPL, so if ferram4 agreed to it he could in fact allow it to be in the game. However, he can only apply that to future releases. Existing code already released under GPL will still be GPL, you can't allow people to make their own forks following one rule set and then come back and prosecute ex post facto. For a license to remove the owner's right to choose a new license, that would be counter productive.

To my best knowledge that is correct. GPL isn't an obstacle - if all the authors agree (I don't know either if farram4 is the only author or not) license for a later versions (including the license for a possible version integrated into KSP) can be changed.

It is apparent Squad simply lacks the resources to do it. The community has outgrown the stock game, sure some diehard Kerbonauts still play it that way, but I doubt its the norm in the community.

Not on a forum, no. Neither this nor Reddit nor Steam. But there's always a silent majority of players - and how many of them play stock version is always horribly difficult to estimate unless you have a direct tool for checking it out with every game client and then reporting back to the server.

But even that wouldn't give you a full picture as there's plenty of players who install only cosmetic mods without any mods altering gameplay (such as B9) and these players care about game updates and what new features are implemented by far more than a small minority of players having dozens of heavy mods installed.

Though I'm yet to hear about a confirmed case where majority of players would actually use modded version of a game. Always majority plays vanilla game, regardless if there is a whole lot of outstanding mods bringing the experience to a whole new level or mods are just community-created bug-fixes.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Alshain]

as if they would have done that they would have been susceptible to a lawsuit which i assure you they are smart enough to not get into (plus there is that thing called honour and dignity)

Aside from a lawsuit and other technical matters, what in the history of actions Squad has taken would lead anyone to believe they were that callous?

[EladDv]

Aside from a lawsuit and other technical matters, what in the history of actions Squad has taken would lead anyone to believe they were that callous?

i was not saying that it's a thing they showed any intentions to do. i was commenting and adding of KasperVLD's comment and this should not be taken out of context.

[GusTurbo]

Aside from a lawsuit and other technical matters, what in the history of actions Squad has taken would lead anyone to believe they were that callous?

I don't know why anyone would think that. There is a strange undercurrent of paranoia with some of the members of the community (not just this forum, but reddit as well) that Squad will suddenly turn on them and become a sort of mini-EA. It all came to the surface when there was the DLC misunderstanding last year.

[EladDv]

I don't know why anyone would think that. There is a strange undercurrent of paranoia with some of the members of the community (not just this forum, but reddit as well) that Squad will suddenly turn on them and become a sort of mini-EA. It all came to the surface when there was the DLC misunderstanding last year.

sorry i'm a bit new to KSP and the forums.. but what DLC? that DLC line with the purchase agreement in the store or something else?

[foma87]

I'm willing to bet that FAR, NEAR and/or DRE will be included in 0.90 to improve the aero because Squad likes to use other people's hard work to improve their game instead of doing it themselves.

-snip-

Because it would make so much more sense to implement these features by starting from zero and developing them from ground up?

Why would it be a problem to buy out the mods, if the features they provide coincide with Squads ideas of what the aerodynamics should look like?

And the sound of this post comes off like Squad were busy counting money and not working at all. Because apparently only modders work hard.

Great assumption!

I bought this game a year ago and was regularily lurking these forums since then. The criticism back then was much more creative and productive.

The amount of whining because feature XY has not been implemented, and unbased bashing of the developers (because they're obviously lazy, right?) in the last few weeks has gone completely overboard.

As for the features I'd like to see:

Anything that can make good use of the FinePrint mod which will be implemented is a welcome addition. (e.g.: Base building on planets, more rover parts, better use for satellites etc.)

[Franklin]

I don't know why anyone would think that. There is a strange undercurrent of paranoia with some of the members of the community (not just this forum, but reddit as well) that Squad will suddenly turn on them and become a sort of mini-EA. It all came to the surface when there was the DLC misunderstanding last year.

Squad has a marketing background and it's very evident in their developmental process. I'm sure the paranoia also stems from Squad never providing a complete start to finish plan for the game, and always just responds with avoidant, "We hope you will enjoy this adventure with us," and, "We have a vision for a fun and educating game, but here's just what we vaguely have planned in the next update. Of course, no promises on anything." It's all very razzle-dazzle to avoid short-term customer dissatisfaction. I mean it's easier to sell a fantasy than a reality, that's marketing 101.

But that said, the paranoia is eyerolling. The game's still in alpha, people need to take the tinfoil hats off and relax a bit. Worst case scenario, the game doesn't live up to your expectations and you mod it up however makes you happy. Big deal.

We're also entering beta, which means content and bug fixes, which I'm sure will shut a lot of kids up.

[EladDv]

i'm not sure for all the bug fixing...yeah i would like if the SPH symmetry would not troll me with braking the crafts sometimes and some came CRASHING bugs are never fun but K drives and random explosions and danny style bugs are fun to discover and have fun with

[KasperVld]

We're drifting, lets get back on topic here. What do we like about KSP entering beta, and what don't we like about it?

[Kinglet]

I am super happy because I hated career mode, still hate it and will hate it forever.

[Franklin]

i'm not sure for all the bug fixing...yeah i would like if the SPH symmetry would not troll me with braking the crafts sometimes and some came CRASHING bugs are never fun but K drives and random explosions and danny style bugs are fun to discover and have fun with

I'm sure Squad will make it so bugs can be toggled on or off in the difficulty panel, don't worry.

[EladDv]

I'm sure Squad will make it so bugs can be toggled on or off in the difficulty panel, don't worry.

toggling bugs would be hilarious

[Alshain]

I'm sure Squad will make it so bugs can be toggled on or off in the difficulty panel, don't worry.

Brilliant!