The Solar Flare Challenge --- explore the biggest object of them all

[SkyRex94]

The Solar Flare Challenge

The Sun is the most well known object in the sky... but KSC Scientists recently stated, that they only really know where it is and that it's bright. Many missions were made to explore the other planets, but the most dominant object of the system remained untouched. Now the Scientists want to know more about this giant sphere of plasma that holds the system together. They said the most information will be gained really close to it, inside the Corona! And that, to fully understand the magnetic forces and the eruptions, a craft has to be in an orbit where it can cover the hole star. A polar orbit, they said! Polar! And on a side note they said it has to be manned, for Science...

In the preperation meeting Jeb said "We've been to Jool before, so how hard can it be anyway?"

Still embarassed that they forgot about the biggest body in the system for so long, the Scientists are also very optimistic. But the engineers are already scratching their heads, trying to figure out a way to accomplish the enourmous needs of this mission.

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THE RULES:

Everybody finishing this challenge within the rules will be a winner, since it is not as easy as it might sound.

- no cheating

- no part clipping

- no Kraken Drives

- There is only funding and time for one Ship. You may do as many Launches as you want into Kerbins SOI, but every part and Kerbal used for the challenge has to leave Kerbins SOI together as one craft.

- document all the Launches, no Hyperedit

- at least One Kerbal has to go with the ship, reach the Destination, do an EVA and return safely to Kerbin

- Destination: Polar Orbit inside the Corona (Apoapsis<500 000 000m , Inclination between 85 and 95 degrees)

- Since you don't have to land, you have to bring something with you: An operational Probe with at least one Goo, Mat.Bay, Gravioli, Thermo. and an 88-88 Antenna has to be left at the Destination. You can bring more things if you want.

- provide pictures of all imprtant things (DeltaV, Fuel, Docking, Orbits etc.) needed to fullfill the rules and enough to track down that your fuel was enough.

Prohibited Mods:

- All reconfigurations of Stock Parts

- All Mod Engine/Propulsion Parts

- All Mod Tanks, that aren't inline with the Mass-Ratios of the Stock Tanks

- All Mod Air Intakes

- All Mod Electricity-related-Parts (Solar, Batteries, Reactors etc.)

- Refueling Mods (Kethane, Karbonite)

- Infernal Robotics

- Extraplanetary Launchpads

- All Fuel-growing-Parts

- Parts that manipulate other parts

- stronger than stock stability parts(quantum struts)

do you think here should be anything else...?

Allowed Mods:

-All that aren't prohibited

-for example: FAR, DRE, KAC, KER, Procedural Fairings...

-ask if unsure

LEVELS OF WINNING:

1st Level:

One Kerbal arrives, deploys probe, does EVA and safely returns home.

2nd Level:

Three Kerbals deploy two Probes at destination, but in oposite position of each other so Kerbin can see at least one all the time, and return Kerbals safely

3rd Level:

Three or more Kerbals on the mission, do everything from Level 2, and impact an Asteroid into the Sun, and return all Kerbals home safely.

The Asteroid can be captured and parked in Kerbins orbit before the mission. I trust you that everyone attempting this mission is at least able to capture an asteroid:wink: From there it can be integrated into your ship during orbital construction. (An A-class is enough, but if you'd like to torture yourself you can use whichever size you prefer)

Jebediah's Level:

Some Scientist thinks the Mission would be a good test for a Dyson-Sphere-Test-Power-Plant-Demonstrator.

So you need to do all the things from Level 3, but additionally you have to bring a Solar-power-plant with you. You'll need at least 5 Kerbals on the Mission to set it up. The goal is to achieve the most power output from your Plant, through Solar power. Measure the output at Apoapsis of your Power-plant-final-orbit (You can use Fusebox-Mod for this if the numbers are huge.) After that, so after doing the EVA, deploying the two probes at destination, use an asteroid as an impactor and set up the Power-Plant and optional doing some Science, all the Kerbals have to return to Kerbin safely, and all of this has to be done with one big ship leaving Kerbins SOI initially.

please provide also this data:

- Game Version

- Mods used

- Weight and aprox. cost of your complete Ship

- anything you want to mention, what you're proud of or what was really difficult or required some reloading.

Advice: You should know of the concept of Slingshots and Gravity Assists before attempting this Challenge. Otherwise it will easily require an ridicoulous amount of DeltaV, and I mean ENORMOUS!

THE SOLAR FLARE CHALLENGE IS ACCOMPLISHED BY:

1ST LEVEL:

2ND LEVEL:

• gm537 - Apo 374000km (after Probes deployed 294000km), 4 Kerbals, 3 Probes, 2268t on Launch Pad, Single Launch, Report
  

3RD LEVEL:

JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL:

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• SkyRex94 - The starting Entry, 5 Kerbals, 1669t Ship LKO, Apo 379000km, PowerPlant Output: 7158.51 , Mission Report
  

Edited December 5, 2014 by SkyRex94

[CavemanNinja]

Interesting challenge, to say the least. Maybe make an efficiency scoring system, and you might want to attempt Jeb's level before proposing something so absurdly difficult.

Still though, cool idea and judging from your signature I'd say you've got enough experience to do Jeb's level

I doubt anyone will want to lug a class D asteroid into solar orbit, gravity assist(s) or not, just sayin

[stanz25]

I have a name! The sunflower challenge!

[Sun]

I can imagine Mechjeb is banned.

[MarvinKitFox]

This is a very interesting challenge!

May we see YOUR proof of concept entry for the Jeb's challenge, please? Or are you simply ignoring the challenge rules and throwing impossible challenges out there?

[TJPrime]

Very interesting challenge, but I think you might as well say "Stock only"

[SkyRex94]

This is a very interesting challenge!

May we see YOUR proof of concept entry for the Jeb's challenge, please? Or are you simply ignoring the challenge rules and throwing impossible challenges out there?

I'm at it, I'm at it. I've just Launched my Return-Vehicle with the two Satellites and docked an A-class Asteroid on it, it has nearly 30 km/s. Just to return to Kerbin. I'm now at designing the Power-Plant and the behemoth of a Transfer Stage, which probably also needs ca. 30km/s Delta V. You see, i'm going for Jeb's level, and if it works, that proofs all Levels possible.

EDIT:Update: The First Part of the Transfer Stage together with the power-Plant are now in Orbit. Still empty, but when fueled up, capable of giving the Ship ca. 15 km/s. Already over 500 Parts...

Very interesting challenge, but I think you might as well say "Stock only"

No, because i saw no reason prohibiting mod-lights, mod-capsules, mod-something that doesn't make the challenge easier. It should be the same difficulty for everyone, but apart from that i have no problem with mods. For example, I'm flying with FAR, so Fairings are kinda needed to Launch, but they don't make the challenge easier, since i have no gains from fairings in space.

I can imagine Mechjeb is banned.

No, mechjeb is allowed. The difficulty here is designing the ship and setting up the nodes. And for Data readouts you can use it to. Though i think it should be mentioned if you used mechjeb for any flying, but its not prohibited.

EDIT: I've done some more testing and research and revised the maximum altitude: Now it's set to 500 000 000m.

Reason 1: I looked it up and the Corona is in the range form 1 to 3 Solar Radii, whereas in this case it would be ca. 1.8 Ksp Solar Radii, so it fits better in the proper region for the mission.

Reason 2: The last couple of meters can easily double ore triple the delta v amount, since you can't really do any tricks as soon as you are closer than moho (Only Oberth Effect) and can make a difference between a 35km/s Mission budget or a 65km/s mission budget just to get a little closer. And since it is possible to do, you'll need a good PC for it (so many parts needed) and i would rather like to get more people with average PC's compete in the challenge than getting as close as it gets.

Reason 3: I tested were KSP Sun 'looks' the best for this mission. And once you get closer than 150 000 000m it loses the glow around and is just a yellow ball. But further out than 600 000 000m and you can't see the Dark Spots anymore. So it looks best between that range.

And 500 000 000m is still so close that you couldn't fit a second Sun between you and the sun.

Edited October 20, 2014 by SkyRex94

[MarvinKitFox]

... revised the maximum altitude: Now it's set to 500 000 000m.

Ok so assuming LFO rocket, the needed launch mass is now 8.8% as much. Quite a change there, boyo!

Even if you use all-nuke propulsion, you will still save 68.9% on the mass budget at launch.

Quit6e a change indeed!

[Wooks]

I'm currently on the early stages of design for this challenge, I'm aiming for the Jeb Level. This (hopefully) will be the return ship, a revamped version of my interplanetary spaceplane "S.S. Hawking".

Edited October 21, 2014 by Wooks

[SkyRex94]

I'm currently on the early stages of design for this challenge, I'm aiming for the Jeb Level. This (hopefully) will be the return ship, a revamped version of my interplanetary spaceplane "S.S. Hawking".

Remember that you have to get 5 Kerbals back on Jebs Level. I only see space for 4.

And besides, sorry that my Kick-Off-Entry is taking so long, studying at university needs a lot of my time at the moment, as a lot of things are going on. But my ship is nearly ready, just needs to get fueld up and then the Trip can start.

And a question for everyone: Do you have any suggestions for last-minute rule changes ? especially the apoapsis height, as MarvinKitFox seems to think its too easy now? (Or did you just wanted to point out that its a big change in DeltaV?)

For that Matter, here the intention i have with this challenge:

Exploring the Sun, since it didn't got any big attention until now, so having a great View at the sun when you arrrive at your destination.

going into a 'polar' Sun Orbit (85-95degrees)

And since there is no need to design Landers as payloads, having specific payloads you have to bring with you to make it mainly an engineering challenge.

Especially the Power-Plant can really lead to very interesting designs.

What i don't wanted:

A 'Build the biggest Rocket you can' Challenge and do stuff with it, since people with low spec should be able to participate, too (At least on Level 1-2). Although it is in any case obviously the most DeltaV consuming Target to get too in KSP. With the current Rules you'll need at least ca. 32-35 km/s for the mission. (Edit: okay maybe going to jool, landing/hovering on 0m, and return to Kerbin needs more)

So everyone thinking about this challenge, where should the Apoapsis requirement of the destination be? A number between 150 000 000 and 700 000 000m, thats where the sun looks best. (Also meaning between ca. 75 km/s and 25 km/s Mission DeltaV)

Edited October 22, 2014 by SkyRex94

[MarvinKitFox]

... last-minute rule changes ? especially the apoapsis height, as MarvinKitFox seems to think its too easy now? (Or did you just wanted to point out that its a big change in DeltaV?)

Your challenge, you pick the parameters.

I merely pointed out that the change in parameter (Apoapsis maximum 100mil->500mil) causes a change in needed delta-v of 22000m/s, which is an **enormous** change in the difficulty of the mission.

a 40km/s rocket is clumsy, but very doable.

a 64km/s rocket is..... very close to impossible.

[SkyRex94]

I've finally finished my own Entry, sorry for it taking so long, i had some other things to do in the last time.

But finally here it is:

The Flight of the Stardust

Game Version: 0.25

Mods: FAR, KER, Replaced Sun Texture, Fusebox, Procedural Fairings, Precise Nodes, EVE, Chatterer, TimeControl, NavBallDockingAligIndicator

Jebs level:

5 Kerbals, 2 Sattelites, 1 A-Class Asteroid, 1 Power Plant

Ship Mass in Orbit: ca. 1.669.000 kg

Aprox Cost of all Launches: ca. 3 Million Funds

6 Ship Part Launches + 6 Fuel Launches = 12 Launches + Asteroid

This was my biggest Ship (in Orbit) so far and also my longest Mission of all Time (Kerbin Time), Part Count of the Final Stardust was around 600 and i encountered that this seems to be the playable limit of my Notebook, since it starts to lag every time i wanted to move it.

Mission Log:

Flying to Eve.

During a close flyby accelerate of ca. 3*Jools distance apoapsis.

After some decade of flying, doing the Plane change out there for a cheap 550 m/s to get Polar.

Also deploying the Asteroid Impactor and set it to an collision course.

After another decade --> Asteroid Impact.

Braking to final Orbit using several burns at Peri.

Final Orbit Apo: 379.000.000 m

Doing an EVA with the Crew.

Assemble the PowerPlant and measure output at Apoapsis = 7158.51 Ch/s

Deploying first SAT and accelerate it to a Period of 16h.

Waiting for alignment and deploying Second SAT at the oposite place, also accelerating to 16h Period.

Setting up the flyback Maneuver and accelerating.

Again using several burns to raise Apo again and get an encounter with Kerbin from a Polar Orbit

Reentry Speed at Kerbin ca. 10km/s.

Lander tipped over on touchdown but nothing broke, All 5 Kerbals savely back home after a half a Century.

Achieved Jebs Level, so all Levels are possible with the current rules. The Stardust even got a closer Apoapsis than needed.

Pictures:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

So, finally the Kerbals of my Space program have properly researched the Sun

Achieved Jeb's Level, and a Place in the OP.

[Lunaran]

Wondering what the benefits of a Joolian slingshot would be for saving dV ... it would certainly save you that 35 year round trip.

[TheKutKu]

Wow, it is really impressive, but i think i Will first complete the jool 5 ans eve rock challenge be fore even attempting this, it is really the end game challenge

[ScriptKitt3h]

HOLY... I need to try this...

[gm537]

Wow, it is really impressive, but i think i Will first complete the jool 5 ans eve rock challenge be fore even attempting this, it is really the end game challenge

It depends on how you look at it. I am doing this challenge before the Eve rocks one. I have tried Eve rocks a couple times and been pretty bad at it. This challenge is easier than that one, imo, because it requires lower thrust. You can easily make an ion based rocket to get somewhere on the order 30km/s of dV but only at thrusts of maybe .1-.2 g's.

[GoSlash27]

What, exactly, do you mean by "no cheating"?

-Slashy

[gm537]

For the probes there is no requirement they stay in the initial orbit they are released in correct? I was going to deploy 3 (you know better coverage and stuff) but was going to put them into an even lower orbit. Is that fine?

[gm537]

I merely pointed out that the change in parameter (Apoapsis maximum 100mil->500mil) causes a change in needed delta-v of 22000m/s, which is an **enormous** change in the difficulty of the mission.

a 40km/s rocket is clumsy, but very doable.

a 64km/s rocket is..... very close to impossible.

Indeed the difficulty of the mission is fairly dependent on the Apoapsis parameter. In fact it might have been a decent challenge to simply say: Lowest Apoapsis from which you return to Kerbin wins; and stick probably with requirements like bring a Kerbal and leave a probe. As for 64km/s being "very close to impossible" that depends on perspective. With ions it really isn't that bad challenging yes, but not excruciatingly difficult... the time required to actually 'burn' the 64km/s now that would be difficult. Haha

[SkyRex94]

For the probes there is no requirement they stay in the initial orbit they are released in correct? I was going to deploy 3 (you know better coverage and stuff) but was going to put them into an even lower orbit. Is that fine?

Sure, look at my Entry, both Probes moved on their own to get to the same Orbital Period. As long as they are low enough (Apo < Requirement) They can have every orbit you'd like. Just they should have the same Orbital Period to stay in the same place relativly to each other. And two of them shall be oposite of each other ( atleast a clearly visible 'Eyeballed' seperation of min. 150 degrees, thats what i would let through as still 'oposite')

What, exactly, do you mean by "no cheating"?

-Slashy

essentially no hyperediting of ships, no hyperediting of new fuel on the way and so on. What exactly do you have in mind if you have to ask what 'no cheating ' means?

Indeed the difficulty of the mission is fairly dependent on the Apoapsis parameter. In fact it might have been a decent challenge to simply say: Lowest Apoapsis from which you return to Kerbin wins; and stick probably with requirements like bring a Kerbal and leave a probe. As for 64km/s being "very close to impossible" that depends on perspective. With ions it really isn't that bad challenging yes, but not excruciatingly difficult... the time required to actually 'burn' the 64km/s now that would be difficult. Haha

The intention was to make it similar to the Jool-5, so you have a specific requirement to accomplish the challenge and not having a leaderboard who was best. So i chose 500mil as this requirement, but i think i will highlight the current lowest entry by making it bold in the OP, so you can see who was closest (as with highlighting the Power output for Jebs Level)

Edited November 3, 2014 by SkyRex94

[GoSlash27]

essentially no hyperediting of ships, no hyperediting of new fuel on the way and so on. What exactly do you have in mind if you have to ask what 'no cheating ' means?

(edit) Nevermind. After re-reading the rules, I spotted something illegal about my proposed entry; "no part clipping".

I was gonna take a kraken drive infiniglider and have this challenge done in no time

-Slashy

Edited November 4, 2014 by GoSlash27

[SkyRex94]

(edit) Nevermind. After re-reading the rules, I spotted something illegal about my proposed entry; "no part clipping".

I was gonna take a kraken drive infiniglider and have this challenge done in no time

-Slashy

Oh you spotted a hole there, indeed. I forgot to prohibit Kraken Drives... I will change that immediatly, thanks for the 'hint'

[gm537]

I have finally finished my entry for this! 'Burning' on Ions takes forever... The entry is a level 2 entry, but I went a little above because I brought 4 kerbals and 3 probes. I've got pictures linked below but the important stuff is that the weight of my ship was 2,268 tons on the launch pad. And cost 1.92 million funds. I only used KER and some Xenon tanks from Near Future Propulsion to reduce part count. (the mass fraction on these tanks is just a bit worse than a stock Xenon pancake)

http://imgur.com/a/GnDGQ

As you can see from the pictures the lowest Ap I got before detaching probes was 374,000 km. After probes detached I went down to 294,000 km (and the probes all had fuel to go even lower than that). You can decide which to count.

[davidparks21]

Really interesting looking challenge. It's definitely bookmarked, though it does look like a solid challenge. I've been thinking about a visit to the sun too. I never knew it could be quite so interesting. I love how you've mixed the necessity of gravity assists into a mission that has a really unique and interesting end goal. Kudos on thinking this one up!

[SkyRex94]

I have finally finished my entry for this! 'Burning' on Ions takes forever... The entry is a level 2 entry, but I went a little above because I brought 4 kerbals and 3 probes. I've got pictures linked below but the important stuff is that the weight of my ship was 2,268 tons on the launch pad. And cost 1.92 million funds. I only used KER and some Xenon tanks from Near Future Propulsion to reduce part count. (the mass fraction on these tanks is just a bit worse than a stock Xenon pancake)

http://imgur.com/a/GnDGQ

As you can see from the pictures the lowest Ap I got before detaching probes was 374,000 km. After probes detached I went down to 294,000 km (and the probes all had fuel to go even lower than that). You can decide which to count.

Congratiulations, you successfully accomplished the Solar Flare Callenge on Level 2. You made most of your DeltaV with IONs, i can image that took nearly forever burning But due to that your Ship was really compact and efficient. Well done. You've earned a place in the OP.