[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[Flashblade]

Beautiful, so beautiful K.Yeon! I am especially happy that this time I did not have to rebuild my Stardancer because you didn't change part names around. You must have changed the engines around quite a bit as well, since even so you made the tanks carry less fuel I pretty much ended up in orbit with about the same amount, just a little less than usual.

My suggestions since we are now able to build a plane from k-parts only there is a need for a k-docking port and quite a few people have requested that k cargo ramp. Maybe you can look into something I suggested previously as well. I still think the usual auto-switching for the turboramjets makes no sense. The engine should switch maybe height triggered or by the emergence of SCA. Well when you have done all that and the stuff in your opening post it is time to go from 1.6 WIP to 1.0 Release my friend. I salute you!

Oh and one more personal thing, I am really happy that you brought back the old cockpit but I liked the first paint job best, could you bring that back as an option as well?

[caipi]

Awesome parts! I love the new ones especially (It's been a while since I used your mod).

I think I found some bugs though with the modular fuel tanks (I am using MFT 5.4.3):

The K-FuelTank 6m has the option to carry either 3375LF and 4125 Ox or if you take the jet fuel, it can only carry 2000LF. This doesn't make much sense because I could just take the rocket version and empty the Oxidizer and still end up with more LF. Also the J-K Adapter can carry 2500 LF in its pure Jet tank. So it is smaller, yet it can carry more fuel.

Keep up the awesome work.

[K.Yeon]

I couldn't try 1.6 for much long, but as far as i get i had some trouble for reentry:

i can take off as always i go in orbit and when my ship met the atmosphere my ship spin.

Doesn't matter how much RCS or SAS i have or how much thrust i use, my ass come down and my nose goes up and i cannot regain control of my ship..

I end up flying in reverse and i crash...

i will investigate my ship and try other design with your part, but i found it strange.

And i don't use FAR

This is possibly because i did all my testings with FAR enabled... The values for lifting surface (stock aerodynamics) for many of parts in 1.6 are just my very rough estimate and likely to be incorrect... I want to wait till ksp1.0, and balance all parts once and for all.

Beautiful, so beautiful K.Yeon! I am especially happy that this time I did not have to rebuild my Stardancer because you didn't change part names around. You must have changed the engines around quite a bit as well, since even so you made the tanks carry less fuel I pretty much ended up in orbit with about the same amount, just a little less than usual.

My suggestions since we are now able to build a plane from k-parts only there is a need for a k-docking port and quite a few people have requested that k cargo ramp. Maybe you can look into something I suggested previously as well. I still think the usual auto-switching for the turboramjets makes no sense. The engine should switch maybe height triggered or by the emergence of SCA. Well when you have done all that and the stuff in your opening post it is time to go from 1.6 WIP to 1.0 Release my friend. I salute you!

Oh and one more personal thing, I am really happy that you brought back the old cockpit but I liked the first paint job best, could you bring that back as an option as well?

Thanks!! Yes i did change the turboramjet they are much more efficient now; about the autoswitching, i think i need to write a plugin for that, and squad didn't really document their code so it might be tough. It might be easier if i just make it a single mode engine that works in thin atmosphere.

Awesome parts! I love the new ones especially (It's been a while since I used your mod).

The K-FuelTank 6m has the option to carry either 3375LF and 4125 Ox or if you take the jet fuel, it can only carry 2000LF. This doesn't make much sense because I could just take the rocket version and empty the Oxidizer and still end up with more LF. Also the J-K Adapter can carry 2500 LF in its pure Jet tank. So it is smaller, yet it can carry more fuel.

Keep up the awesome work.

Thanks! ill adjust that in future! i sort of copy and pasted the values, i think i forgot to change the liquid fuel

Are you working on the IVAs?

If yes, could you add an RPM support, please?

Thanks

Yes... IVA... Im slowly working on them ill need to attend classes soon so this might take a while... But yes ill definitely use RPM.

[RainDreamer]

High tech touch screen? Sweeeet.

[Flashblade]

Thanks!! Yes i did change the turboramjet they are much more efficient now; about the autoswitching, i think i need to write a plugin for that, and squad didn't really document their code so it might be tough. It might be easier if i just make it a single mode engine that works in thin atmosphere.

No please don't do that. If you can't figure out the auto-switching just leave it as is. I like to switch things manually anyway. Oh how could I forget for an all k-plane we also need a k science lab

[Taki117]

I'm trying to make a MM config to add the compressed air intake to the appropriate intakes (Most notably those in B9 and the stock ram air intake) and I'm not having any luck. Here's an example of what I have so far.

@PART[B9_Aero_Intake_*]
{
MODULE
{
name = OPTRamIntake
intakesize = 8
}
RESOURCE
{
name = SuperCompressedAir
amount = 0
maxAmount = 0.8
}
}

What am I doing wrong?

[Flashblade]

I'm trying to make a MM config to add the compressed air intake to the appropriate intakes (Most notably those in B9 and the stock ram air intake) and I'm not having any luck. Here's an example of what I have so far.

@PART[B9_Aero_Intake_*]
{
MODULE
{
name = OPTRamIntake
intakesize = 8
}
RESOURCE
{
name = SuperCompressedAir
amount = 0
maxAmount = 0.8
}
}

What am I doing wrong?

The plugin controls the super compressed air. My guess is that it does not recognize the intakes you are adding and therefore it is not working, but K.Yeon will have to confirm that.

[Gaalidas]

I'm trying to make a MM config to add the compressed air intake to the appropriate intakes (Most notably those in B9 and the stock ram air intake) and I'm not having any luck. Here's an example of what I have so far.

@PART[B9_Aero_Intake_*]
{
MODULE
{
name = OPTRamIntake
intakesize = 8
}
RESOURCE
{
name = SuperCompressedAir
amount = 0
maxAmount = 0.8
}
}

What am I doing wrong?

The only thing I see out of place is that "intakesize" should be (notice the case) "intakeSize" if these sorts of thing are case sensitive, which I like to think they are. At least, in the code I know they are unless the redundant definitions have been... uhh... defined. I'm also not sure if that module adds anything that you could actually notice to the part, but I've never tried using them before.

Beyond that, nothing seems out of place.

UPDATE: So, I did some code diving and discovered a few other things about that module. It might be having trouble if a transform named "intake_transform" is present, or another transform defined using the parameter "intakeMeshName = your_transform_name" where the transform name is the one used for that part's intake, if it has one. I won't begin to understand why that's needed, but it is defined in the module code so it must be important.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Gaalidas

[Roikkeli]

Love the parts. Only part on my wishlist is j bicoupler into two 2.5m nodes.

[Sacnoth]

This mod is getting beter and better! Will there be an official release anytime soon?

Also K.Yeon, have you considered adding gimballing to the engines? Maybe this could help with some the stability problems some people are having?

[Neutrinovore]

This mod is getting beter and better! Will there be an official release anytime soon?

Also K.Yeon, have you considered adding gimballing to the engines? Maybe this could help with some the stability problems some people are having?

I'll second this! I'm kind of spoiled now, engines with gimbal capability really help keep some of my designs stable, especially when I'm trying to achieve a certain look, which isn't necessarily the optimum aerodynamic design.

Food for thought, anyway.

[Grunf911]

Hi K.Yeon.

Love the 1.6 parts, it woulf be greatly beneficial if you could post reasoning behind each engine type. I am playing with ADIOS tech tree that i am modifying a bit, and i just wanted to know which tradeoffs did you have in mind with propulsion.

I.e. Linear aerospike - crazy thrust, heavy fuel consumption,

Dark drive - great ISP, etc...

Dont mind its a bit OP i will jut put it very high in the tech tree, probably just before rovers alcubierre drive

[K.Yeon]

Love the parts. Only part on my wishlist is j bicoupler into two 2.5m nodes.

I don't know why i forgot to make that part ill add this part for sure!

This mod is getting beter and better! Will there be an official release anytime soon?

Also K.Yeon, have you considered adding gimballing to the engines? Maybe this could help with some the stability problems some people are having?

Thanks for the suggestion! I will add some gimbal to all engines in future, as well as some fancy throttle animation

Hi K.Yeon.

Love the 1.6 parts, it woulf be greatly beneficial if you could post reasoning behind each engine type. I am playing with ADIOS tech tree that i am modifying a bit, and i just wanted to know which tradeoffs did you have in mind with propulsion.

Dont mind its a bit OP i will jut put it very high in the tech tree, probably just before rovers alcubierre drive

I haven't look at other mod tech trees yet but heres the ideas behind the engines:

Turboramjet: Very efficient in dense atmosphere, still pretty efficient in thin atmosphere; If compare with stock turbojet, which goes out at around 30km on kerbin, turboramjet will remain active until 46~47km or speed > mach 7. I would think of it as a hypersonic engine

LinearAerospike: just an larger version of stock aerospike, slighly more efficient than normal rocket engines at all altitudes, but still consumes fuel at fairly fast rate.

Dark Drive: Just a over powered LFO engine that looks cool. Not suitable within atmosphere but once in space you have enough dv to go any where

ARIE: alternate to the stock rapier engine. Difference is that is much more powerful at all altitude; in high-medium dense air it can have high fuel consumption, but still much lower to that of normal rocket engine. I once did a test to compare ARIE and rapier engine, both got the small spaceplane to 700km altitude, but ARIE required only half the time.

[Grunf911]

Cool,

Dark drive is to use if you wanna make ssto to eloo. Just dont nerf it. 1 can be OP. We need engines that pack a punch

[Sacnoth]

I've added some stock gimballing to the engines myself for testing purposes and it does seem to help stabilize my aircraft a bit and makes it easier to take off

Only strange thing I noticed is when using the turboramjets on one of my opt planes is I hit some sort of ceiling at around 12km where is suddenly start losing speed and thrust like crazy and my nose won't point up anymore.

Could this be some stock aerodynamics problem?

[RainDreamer]

I've added some stock gimballing to the engines myself for testing purposes and it does seem to help stabilize my aircraft a bit and makes it easier to take off

Only strange thing I noticed is when using the turboramjets on one of my opt planes is I hit some sort of ceiling at around 12km where is suddenly start losing speed and thrust like crazy and my nose won't point up anymore.

Could this be some stock aerodynamics problem?

Turbo ramjet has its efficiency dropped to 0 once you hit over 2570m/s in ramjet mode (turbo jet is dead at 1500m/s). It is not designed to work on speed higher than that. You gotta use another engine for the rest of the flight once you hit that mark.

Edited March 1, 2015 by RainDreamer

[Sacnoth]

Turbo ramjet has its efficiency dropped to 0 once you hit over 2570km/s in ramjet mode (turbo jet is dead at 1500km/s). It is not designed to work on speed higher than that. You gotta use another engine for the rest of the flight once you hit that mark.

When I reach 12 km I'm nowhere near those speeds, I'm flying at around 500 - 600 m/s at that altitude, so that shouldn't be a problem. That also doesn't explain the sudden dip my craft's nose makes and I can't pull up anymore. It's not gradual, it's really like hitting some kind of ceiling at 12 km. I'll try some more configurations to see if I can find out what's causing it.

[Sacnoth]

When I reach 12 km I'm nowhere near those speeds, I'm flying at around 500 - 600 m/s at that altitude, so that shouldn't be a problem. That also doesn't explain the sudden dip my craft's nose makes and I can't pull up anymore. It's not gradual, it's really like hitting some kind of ceiling at 12 km. I'll try some more configurations to see if I can find out what's causing it.

Oddly enough it seems to be the intake in the ramjet engine that's causing me trouble. For some reason it seems to start generating lots of drag at a certain altitude for me. removing the intake module from the part fixes it and my spaceplanes easily make it to space now. odd.

[blowfish]

Oddly enough it seems to be the intake in the ramjet engine that's causing me trouble. For some reason it seems to start generating lots of drag at a certain altitude for me. removing the intake module from the part fixes it and my spaceplanes easily make it to space now. odd.

Are you using FAR? If so, try the dev version on Github. There was an issue with intake drag that has been fixed since 0.14.6.

[Sacnoth]

Are you using FAR? If so, try the dev version on Github. There was an issue with intake drag that has been fixed since 0.14.6.

No I'm using stock aerodynamics. for now I'll keep using the turbo ramjets without intakes, as this seems to work just fine.

I remember K.Yeon saying the parts were designed for FAR and not optimized for stock aerodynamics, so some oddities are to be expected.

I'm just wondering if other people are experiencing this as well, and what might be causing it.

I'm not very familiar with how the whole drag/air intake systems works myself. Could it perhaps be that that the drag generated by an intake multiplies the parts inherent drag?

[blowfish]

No I'm using stock aerodynamics. for now I'll keep using the turbo ramjets without intakes, as this seems to work just fine.

I remember K.Yeon saying the parts were designed for FAR and not optimized for stock aerodynamics, so some oddities are to be expected.

I'm just wondering if other people are experiencing this as well, and what might be causing it.

I'm not very familiar with how the whole drag/air intake systems works myself. Could it perhaps be that that the drag generated by an intake multiplies the parts inherent drag?

Okay, I think I know what's going on. It's an issue with stock intake drag, explained here. Try this patch (hoisted from B9):

@PART[mk2_ramIntake]:NEEDS[!FerramAerospaceResearch&!NEAR] {
    // Set unitScalar to default if its not present
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]:HAS[~unitScalar[]] {
        unitScalar = 0.2
    }
    // set maxIntakeSpeed to default if not present
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]:HAS[~maxIntakeSpeed[]] {
        maxIntakeSpeed = 100
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake] {
        massRatio = #$/mass$
        @massRatio /= 0.01
        // area, / (mass ratio)
        @area /= #$massRatio$
        // default is 0.2, * sqroot(mass ratio)
        unitScalarRatio = #$massRatio$
        @unitScalarRatio != 0.5
        @unitScalar *= #$unitScalarRatio$
        // default is 100, * (unitScalar + sqroot(mass ratio)) / (unitScalar + 1)
        maxIntakeSpeedFirst = #$unitScalar$
        @maxIntakeSpeedFirst += #$unitScalarRatio$
        maxIntakeSpeedSecond = #$unitScalar$
        @maxIntakeSpeedSecond += 1
        @maxIntakeSpeed *= #$maxIntakeSpeedFirst$
        @maxIntakeSpeed /= #$maxIntakeSpeedSecond$
        // cleanup variables
        !massRatio = delete
        !unitScalarRatio = delete
        !maxIntakeSpeedFirst = delete
        !maxIntakeSpeedSecond = delete
    }
}

@PART[turboRamJet]:NEEDS[!FerramAerospaceResearch&!NEAR] {
    // Set unitScalar to default if its not present
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]:HAS[~unitScalar[]] {
        unitScalar = 0.2
    }
    // set maxIntakeSpeed to default if not present
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]:HAS[~maxIntakeSpeed[]] {
        maxIntakeSpeed = 100
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake] {
        massRatio = #$/mass$
        @massRatio /= 0.01
        // area, / (mass ratio)
        @area /= #$massRatio$
        // default is 0.2, * sqroot(mass ratio)
        unitScalarRatio = #$massRatio$
        @unitScalarRatio != 0.5
        @unitScalar *= #$unitScalarRatio$
        // default is 100, * (unitScalar + sqroot(mass ratio)) / (unitScalar + 1)
        maxIntakeSpeedFirst = #$unitScalar$
        @maxIntakeSpeedFirst += #$unitScalarRatio$
        maxIntakeSpeedSecond = #$unitScalar$
        @maxIntakeSpeedSecond += 1
        @maxIntakeSpeed *= #$maxIntakeSpeedFirst$
        @maxIntakeSpeed /= #$maxIntakeSpeedSecond$
        // cleanup variables
        !massRatio = delete
        !unitScalarRatio = delete
        !maxIntakeSpeedFirst = delete
        !maxIntakeSpeedSecond = delete
    }
}

[Autochton]

I've put in pull requests to ModularFuelTanks/RealFuels and to Connected Living Space supporting this mod. FYI. We'll see if/when they're accepted and released, but then anyone with those mods should see this one supported.

[taniwha]

I would much rather this mod supports MFT, and I'm sure the CLS author would feel the same way.

[Autochton]

@Taniwha: Not disagreeing with you there. However, I see no way to contribute to this mod (apart from posting about it in this thread), so I elected to add my work to the ones where it is possible.

Besides, the list of supported mods in MFT/RF and CLS is long already, and growing longer.

[taniwha]

I would like to shrink that list for MFT.