[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[StahnAileron]

There is another mod out there with a FAR MM cfg that is known to cause issues with control surfaces. If you have that mod (AoA Mk2 parts), find and remove the FAR cfg file. That will restore control/lift surfaces for stock aero use.

If you don't have that mod, you need to check for other possible conflicts.

[Neutrinovore]

The wings/winglets/control surfaces are using the appropriate stock modules for aerodynamics. Not having Firespitter would have zero impact on the control surfaces.

Gotcha, I stand corrected, thank you. It looks like StahnAileron might have a lead on the problem though...

[Nothalogh]

There is another mod out there with a FAR MM cfg that is known to cause issues with control surfaces. If you have that mod (AoA Mk2 parts), find and remove the FAR cfg file. That will restore control/lift surfaces for stock aero use.

If you don't have that mod, you need to check for other possible conflicts.

Even with that mod not installed, I have found that OPT wings are functionally useless, mind you they look glorious, but that is it

[Starwaster]

Even with that mod not installed, I have found that OPT wings are functionally useless, mind you they look glorious, but that is it

If you're going to make a statement like that, you need to back it up with something, at least some specifics as to how they're failing you. As I've said before, I've used these wings and they function fine.

However, the fuselage parts have the lift modules on them so to rule out the possibility that I might have been fooled by the other OPT parts providing lift, I decided to stick some of the OPT wings and control surfaces onto non-OPT parts. In fact, I stuck them onto plain old rocket parts. No Mk2/Mk3 spaceplane, just big orange tank, a small gray tank with some lead ballast (it's Real Fuels). Four landing gear parts and a mess of intakes.

Aside from having given it a long tail to increase stability, only superficial thought was given to aerodynamics. Center of Mass is horribly placed in relation to lift and it's a ..... to get airborne, but I blame the overall design of the 'plane' - I designed it to be deliberately flawed and if there was really anything wrong with these wing parts then it shouldn't fly at all.

But it does fly and it maneuvers adequately in spite of having been set up for failure.

So... EXACTLY what is the problem you have with these wings???

[Neutrinovore]

Even with that mod not installed, I have found that OPT wings are functionally useless, mind you they look glorious, but that is it

Yeah, I'm with Starwaster on this one, the wings in 1.7 work great for me, they're just about all I use anymore. I do remember that I did have some major problems in a previous version of OPT with the wings not seeming to produce much lift, but that was a very short-lived thing, K.Yeon was updating stuff fairly rapidly at the time and the problem was quickly corrected. Or perhaps that was all during the 1.0, 1.0.1, 1.0.2 patch frenzy that was going on there for a couple weeks. Either way, if you're running KSP v1.0.4 and OPT v1.7 (again, I'm not using 1.8 for other reasons), the only other reason you'd be having problems with ONLY the wings from OPT would have to be because of a third party mod such as FAR or NEAR or something else that messes with stock aerodynamics. Which, if that's the case, it's not really fair to say that the fault lies with OPT, is it?

Later!

[SterlingPinion]

This is a fascinating mod, and I am eager to use it. However, soon as I installed OPT and Adjustable Landing Gear, no atmospheric crafts will fly. When I load a simple spaceplane using the j-type parts, sometimes it loads properly, other times the j docking section loads askew and begins to vibrate, along with the wings, and causes the whole craft to turn about itself without any input or thrust. when it does load properly, and I begin my takeoff, the craft will achieve about 80 m/s with no signs of taking off, then it begins to dance on the landing gear as though it is trying to lift but is unstable, then encounters a severe yaw event that rolls the craft over and destroys it. This behavior is now persistent across any aircraft, regardless whether OPT parts are included. I use Farram Aerospace, and the particular J-type I am attempting to fly is, according to ferram in the sph, one of the most stable and best-performing craft I've ever built.

I am confused by this behavior and I am working on restoring my game to a pre-install point to make sure it is not the cause of another mod. any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Ryan

[Starwaster]

This is a fascinating mod, and I am eager to use it. However, soon as I installed OPT and Adjustable Landing Gear, no atmospheric crafts will fly. When I load a simple spaceplane using the j-type parts, sometimes it loads properly, other times the j docking section loads askew and begins to vibrate, along with the wings, and causes the whole craft to turn about itself without any input or thrust. when it does load properly, and I begin my takeoff, the craft will achieve about 80 m/s with no signs of taking off, then it begins to dance on the landing gear as though it is trying to lift but is unstable, then encounters a severe yaw event that rolls the craft over and destroys it. This behavior is now persistent across any aircraft, regardless whether OPT parts are included. I use Farram Aerospace, and the particular J-type I am attempting to fly is, according to ferram in the sph, one of the most stable and best-performing craft I've ever built.

I am confused by this behavior and I am working on restoring my game to a pre-install point to make sure it is not the cause of another mod. any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Ryan

Sounds more like problem with the adjustable gear. How are OPT parts going to affect spaceplane parts that DON'T use OPT parts? That makes no sense.

[M_Ouellette]

First I would ask what version you were using? Second as I think I've said before, watch out for parts clipping when building with these parts, some of them behave really strangely once you get them out on the tarmac.

[innociv]

It's definitely a problem with OPT.

Adjustable Landing Gear work fine with everything else.

[Starwaster]

It's definitely a problem with OPT.

Adjustable Landing Gear work fine with everything else.

I don't see that happen with OPT or I'd have a lot more launch failures during take off. These planes are so smooth even Bob could fly one! (not that Jeb lets him)

[Drew Kerman]

If you have a suggestion or question heres a list of things already planned:

-IVAs for all crewed parts

Anyone willing to IVA all the things deserves a donation.

I'd donate again if you're willing to IVA other mods once you've completed your own

Edited October 6, 2015 by Gaiiden

[CptRichardson]

I've got to say that four scramjets are enough to lift a full-sized K plane into orbit with more than half the remaining fuel aboard.

[SterlingPinion]

Sounds more like problem with the adjustable gear. How are OPT parts going to affect spaceplane parts that DON'T use OPT parts? That makes no sense.

I apologize for being unclear. I am not trying to point fingers, only trying to describe symptoms. Allow me to clarify: I downloaded OPT and Adjustable Gear during the same period, so I cannot say if one is the culprit or the other. I have several other mods besides, including Ferram Aerospace, and it is possible my laptop is simply running out of RAM. That said, since I have installed the two, I have built and attempted to fly several different craft, all OPT hulls with an assortment of engines and wing parts. However, the latest craft I have been trying is almost bare-bones. to try to remove as many variables as possible, the craft is a J-type cockpit followed by a j-tank and a long j-adapter. I have used the stock small landing gear in place of Adjustable Gear, and OPT wing parts for all but a pair of forward canards. For those I used B9 Procedural control surface (all-moving). Despite it's simplicity and outstanding assessments from Ferram, without fail the craft begins to wobble on the gear around 80 m/s before experiencing an abrupt yaw moment that rolls it over and destroys it.

The reason I cited the attempt with a non-OPT craft was not to blame OPT, but to offer additional information. This behavior has been relatively uniform across any craft since I installed OPT and Gear. In the one instance, I tried going back to my career mode game and flying a supersonic craft that had been known to be very stable. With that craft, using no OPT parts, I experienced the same unexplained yaw moment, followed by it's destruction.

I should mention that the vehicles have not been destroyed by aerodynamic forces but rather by colliding with the terrain after rolling uncontrollably.

[ss8913]

Adjustable landing gear does not cause this behavior, I use them all the time. In fact, the K cargo tail was designed specifically to be used with the adjustable landing gear 'large' size gear, according to OPT's author.

I have seen this behavior with OPT parts myself, but not always. Usually exiting KSP and relaunching fixes it. KSP does also seem to run out of memory faster when using OPT-based craft, but with 1.1 around the corner (stable 64-bit) I'm not too concerned by that at this time.

Keep in mind you need to patch OPT if you want to use the OPT wings with FAR. Without the patch, OPT wings will generate no lift with FAR - not sure if the OPT author has made this part of the main OPT distribution or not yet - may be in the new release, don't think it's in the one you can currently get on CKAN though.

[Nothalogh]

Keep in mind you need to patch OPT if you want to use the OPT wings with FAR. Without the patch, OPT wings will generate no lift with FAR - not sure if the OPT author has made this part of the main OPT distribution or not yet - may be in the new release

I used that patch code, and got little to no improvement

[StahnAileron]

If I recall, OPT included a rough FAR mm cfg patch so the wings work in FAR. I just recall if it's installed by default or if you need to drag it from an extras folder or need to rename it (e.g. FAR.txt to FAR.cfg).

EDIT: Yeah, ignore that. There was a reply made while I was typing this up...

On that note, I do know the OPT parts have some clipping issues, as someone else mentions. The K-Cargo bay is notorious for this with me. There seems to be something off with it's animation and/or Cargo bay doors. I've had SSTO almost rip themselves apart on the runway. I realized it was the cargo bay cause collision forces when I finally noticed my wings shifting when I open/close the bay. (The K-bay also doesn't play nice with the Offset tool, but Nertea's Mark IV mod has that quirk as well...) It's like the collision box/detection for it expands when its animation is running.

But this is all in 1.7; I haven't touched 1.8 yet. I have an OPT-based SSTO in orbit, so I can't swap out the mod versions yet. I need to recover it first, but I've been messing with craft designs instead of doing that. (Ironically, the K-bay issue has made me look at the Mark IV system now...) I really need to recover that damn SSTO so I can swap the mod pack.

Edited October 6, 2015 by StahnAileron

[Starwaster]

But this is all in 1.7; I haven't touched 1.8 yet. I have an OPT-based SSTO in orbit, so I can't swap out the mod versions yet. I need to recover it first, but I've been messing with craft designs instead of doing that. (Ironically, the K-bay issue has made me look at the Mark IV system now...) I really need to recover that damn SSTO so I can swap the mod pack. Unless it's safe to have 1.7 and 1.8 installed side by side. (Anyone know if this is possible?) Also, I think 1.8 is kinda buggy, no? (Test release and all...)

He said not to install them together.

Some of the parts have changed significantly; the old K cargo bay is missing and there's a new one in its place with a more rounded top. (still on the fence as to how I feel about that)

There are NO Real Fuels configs for the new parts (if you use RF)

EDIT: Actually, the J-K adaptor must have had its part name changed because it DID have RF configs on it and now it doesn't

Not sure what else might have changed or might be missing.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason I cited the attempt with a non-OPT craft was not to blame OPT, but to offer additional information. This behavior has been relatively uniform across any craft since I installed OPT and Gear. In the one instance, I tried going back to my career mode game and flying a supersonic craft that had been known to be very stable. With that craft, using no OPT parts, I experienced the same unexplained yaw moment, followed by it's destruction.

I should mention that the vehicles have not been destroyed by aerodynamic forces but rather by colliding with the terrain after rolling uncontrollably.

Understand that I wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything, just pointing out that OPT itself is just a parts pack. It doesn't make changes to other parts like the Mk2/Mk3 or anything else. It's not going to make them weaker or do anything else to them to make them behave like that.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Starwaster

[ss8913]

If you use MFT and the Mk2 KSPIE integration mod from ABZB, you'll have realfuels available in the OPT (and all other) parts [that can normally carry liquidfuel and/or oxidizer].

Is 1.8 coming to CKAN soon?

[M_Ouellette]

K.Yeon has clearly stated that 1.8 is not complete, what he released is "Test version" to allow people an early look at what will be in the finished product that's going to be delayed due to real life issues. I'm going to run 1.8 off on a copy of my main install, but I am seriously thinking of renaming parts to allow me to keep my older builds rather having to scrap everything I've made, I'm not a fan of mod revisions that invalidate everything made with each new version.

Edited October 7, 2015 by M_Ouellette

[StahnAileron]

[...] I'm not a fan of mod revisions that invalidate everything made with each new version.

I'm hoping K. Yeon keeps a legacy pack running with the older parts that will still work (just no active support). I liked some of the older parts and the newer parts (again, I haven't touched the 1.8 test version.) It would make a mess of the part lists, but that's the player's issue if they decided to install both a current version and the legacy parts.

On the flip-side, I think the license for this mod is pretty lenient, so a Legacy pack could be left to the community to patch if there are significant issues or niggling quirks. (Especially if they can be corrected via Module Manager.) If I had the time and patience, I'd load up the current K Cargo bay and fix the issue I'm having with it myself. (KSP is the first game to actually tempt me to being a modder, but modding looks to be very time consuming.)

He said not to install them together.

Some of the parts have changed significantly; the old K cargo bay is missing and there's a new one in its place with a more rounded top. (still on the fence as to how I feel about that)

There are NO Real Fuels configs for the new parts (if you use RF)

EDIT: Actually, the J-K adaptor must have had its part name changed because it DID have RF configs on it and now it doesn't

Yeah, I realized the 1.7 vs 1.8 thing after I posted that and re-read the OP. Seems I edited my post while you were writing yours.

If I recall, the new K profile is intended to fit and lift 3.75m parts. The J was expanded to actually fit 2.5m parts now (v1.8). I think the K profile would look a little better if the total width/height were adjusted rather than just a hump. The K profile was relatively flat, so a new hump design stands out more. The J always had that slant, so making it sharper to accommodate Size 2 parts isn't as obvious.

I would like to have a half-length K-bodies (both fuel and cargo.) They were pretty big, so using 2 was usually overkill if the payload I had was just a bit longer than the bay. (Especially if I wanted to do proper mounting for decoupling.) I do love the new hollow profile for the K bodies though, especially with the Tail Ramp. I haven't used the Tail ramp (I've yet to do rovers much), but I'm kinda hoping K. Yeon does some sort of Nose Cargo Ramp Cockpit as well. (Fashioned after something like the J-Mk2 adapter.) It'd be neat to fly a mini-jet THROUGH a K-cargo plane.

[Starwaster]

Yeah, I realized the 1.7 vs 1.8 thing after I posted that and re-read the OP. Seems I edited my post while you were writing yours.

If I recall, the new K profile is intended to fit and lift 3.75m parts. The J was expanded to actually fit 2.5m parts now (v1.8). I think the K profile would look a little better if the total width/height were adjusted rather than just a hump. The K profile was relatively flat, so a new hump design stands out more. The J always had that slant, so making it sharper to accommodate Size 2 parts isn't as obvious.

I would like to have a half-length K-bodies (both fuel and cargo.) They were pretty big, so using 2 was usually overkill if the payload I had was just a bit longer than the bay. (Especially if I wanted to do proper mounting for decoupling.)

Ok, I have to correct myself on something I said. I thought there were some configs that were explicitly adding MFT to OPT parts but it was just the blanket conversion of resource carrying parts, in 1.8, certain parts have had their resources removed and are handled entirely through the Firespitter fuel switcher. Certain parts that I thought had had their names changed did not. I'm not sure which ones did anymore.

I do love the new hollow profile for the K bodies though, especially with the Tail Ramp. I haven't used the Tail ramp (I've yet to do rovers much), but I'm kinda hoping K. Yeon does some sort of Nose Cargo Ramp Cockpit as well. (Fashioned after something like the J-Mk2 adapter.) It'd be neat to fly a mini-jet THROUGH a K-cargo plane.

Barnstorming?

[StahnAileron]

Ok, I have to correct myself on something I said. I thought there were some configs that were explicitly adding MFT to OPT parts but it was just the blanket conversion of resource carrying parts, in 1.8, certain parts have had their resources removed and are handled entirely through the Firespitter fuel switcher. Certain parts that I thought had had their names changed did not. I'm not sure which ones did anymore.

Barnstorming?

Actually, speaking of FireSpitter: Are there any plans to migrate fuel switching to Interstellar Fuel Switch? I know Nertea uses it for his mods. CryoEngines has a catchall MM cfg for LF/Ox tanks that allows LF, Ox, LF/Ox, LH2/Ox combinations. From what I understand, IFS is a fork and a (supposedly) "better" implementation of FSFuelSwitch. (I haven't had problems, but since I'm just a player and not actively testing that...) Mods use one or the other, so there's a mix of support there. I'd rather just have one and only one of those plugins installed so I don't have 2 sets of fuel switch tweakables.

As for barnstorming: Sure, why not? ^_~ Now that I think about it, I'm surprised there aren't more stunt/obstacle course KSP videos out there. Okay, sure, this is Kerbal SPACE Program, but still. Some of the most relaxing moments I had playing KSP was back in 0.90 with NEAR installed (<<< Critical plugin) and all the typical parts and quality of life mods. I made a VTOL super-cruising jet (based mainly on QuizTech parts) that was pretty stable and just cruised around doing contracts in career mode.

Anyway, having a forward cargo ramp would let players still have a cargo ramp while having a full (heavy) engine system in the back. I think the trade-off would just be a narrower ramp. (Again, I'm using the J-Mk2 adapter as a reference design.)

[Skalou]

hello,

just to say a config is missing for tweakscale and the OPT Stabilizer Type A,

however this can do the job:

@PART[opt_stabilizer_a] // OPT Stabilizer Type A
{
    %MODULE[TweakScale]
    {
        type = free_square
    }
}

Also, thank's for this mod

[M_Ouellette]

I'm hoping K. Yeon keeps a legacy pack running with the older parts that will still work (just no active support). I liked some of the older parts and the newer parts (again, I haven't touched the 1.8 test version.) It would make a mess of the part lists, but that's the player's issue if they decided to install both a current version and the legacy parts.

On the flip-side, I think the license for this mod is pretty lenient, so a Legacy pack could be left to the community to patch if there are significant issues or niggling quirks. (Especially if they can be corrected via Module Manager.) If I had the time and patience, I'd load up the current K Cargo bay and fix the issue I'm having with it myself. (KSP is the first game to actually tempt me to being a modder, but modding looks to be very time consuming.)

I think that the original K cockpit with it's matched adapter was by far the best looking and I regret his moving away from that design rather than expanding on it, so I will be doing whatever I can to keep it.

If I recall, the new K profile is intended to fit and lift 3.75m parts. The J was expanded to actually fit 2.5m parts now (v1.8). I think the K profile would look a little better if the total width/height were adjusted rather than just a hump. The K profile was relatively flat, so a new hump design stands out more. The J always had that slant, so making it sharper to accommodate Size 2 parts isn't as obvious.

I would like to have a half-length K-bodies (both fuel and cargo.) They were pretty big, so using 2 was usually overkill if the payload I had was just a bit longer than the bay. (Especially if I wanted to do proper mounting for decoupling.) I do love the new hollow profile for the K bodies though, especially with the Tail Ramp. I haven't used the Tail ramp (I've yet to do rovers much), but I'm kinda hoping K. Yeon does some sort of Nose Cargo Ramp Cockpit as well. (Fashioned after something like the J-Mk2 adapter.) It'd be neat to fly a mini-jet THROUGH a K-cargo plane.

I kind of think the new K hull with the hump is a bit more credible. I'm no physicist, but I would think that the upper curve would perhaps give the shape more aerodynamic stability. I like the idea of a nose ramp as well, ie C-5 Galaxy style where the flight deck sits well above the centerline of a fuselage with a nose cone which can tilt up, Clamshell opening would look impressive but it would probably create collision issues with wing and engine implementations. As for flying through the plane, those same hidden collision boxes would probably make something like that impossible, but it would look cool if it were possible.

[StahnAileron]

I think that the original K cockpit with it's matched adapter was by far the best looking and I regret his moving away from that design rather than expanding on it, so I will be doing whatever I can to keep it.

I kind of think the new K hull with the hump is a bit more credible. I'm no physicist, but I would think that the upper curve would perhaps give the shape more aerodynamic stability. I like the idea of a nose ramp as well, ie C-5 Galaxy style where the flight deck sits well above the centerline of a fuselage with a nose cone which can tilt up, Clamshell opening would look impressive but it would probably create collision issues with wing and engine implementations. As for flying through the plane, those same hidden collision boxes would probably make something like that impossible, but it would look cool if it were possible.

I think the new K would be more visually appealing if it was a bit wider to account for the increase in height. Or not as symmetric vertically (keep the underside more flatten). It looks a little too chubby to me. With the new design, it looks more Heavy Aero Cargo Transport then Space Plane/SSTO (especially the cockpit). It's like a C-130 Hercules scaled up to C-5 Galaxy size. But hey, if it's still viable for SSTO work, *shrug* I still like this mod overall (I'm a sucker for the OPT Ramjet... No pun intended).

Truly hollow structures and cargo bays seem to have specialized collision meshes/boxes that actually reflect that aspect. Pretty sure someone could fly through the hull of a K-Cargo by if they had the skill/luck even in this current version. Someone could test via a probe core and some wheels on an assembly of K-cargo bays/fuel tanks along with a small midget plane. If you can drive a rover onto and into it, a plane flying through it would essentially be the same case, no?