Easy Normal Hard Absurd-Hard

[yafeshan]

I played KSP for sometime then left. When I wanted to check again I saw difficulty settings and started on hard mode. Its really fun this way. I finally made some progress on my third attempt.

My main problem is fund rather than science. My ships crash a lot so I spend a lot. I also play with lots of mods, including far, deadly reentry, fineprint and remotetech. Fineprint gives me extra meaningful missions ( I hate test stuff on flight missions) and the rest my life extra hard. I have station science and one other science mod but I do not have capacity to use them at this stage. At some point I cancelled all testing equipment missions within Kerbin. I am getting all my science and fund from orbit.

I needed a relay satellite for radio transmissions. I managed to put one in synchronous kerbin orbit on my 4th attempt. After that I could send data from Mun and Minmus. Luckily I got 2 big mun missions. I managed to send my mun rocket on first try and while it was travelling to Mun my successful relay satellite was getting into position.

Finally I reached Mun but couldn't send anything back home. My relay satellite was in wrong position because of calculation mistake. I tried very hard to get it to correct position in time because my little kerbanout inside mun module does not have infinite amount of oxygen, water and food (yes I have life support mod). Finally link was established with command center on Kerbin, science started to flow. Unfortunately I lost first science modules due to mistaken staging. I only had 2 mystery goo capsule left. I for low orbit, I for surface. I sent all I could on mun orbit. I wanted to attempt landing and complete last piece of mission. I had very low deltaV but I tried anyway. I almost made it but it crashed at last moment. Back home in ground station, I got quite a lot of science despite failure of landing.

Now its time for extended mun visit.

[Skamp_X]

Well not using mods , but I do like the idea on just keep on making it harder (really like the idea of life support)

But for now I gotta get further in the tech tree before I consider retrying with mods.

But I'm still stuck on how to go for the bigger missions , like bringing back samples from other planets without the option of refuelling.

To build something with the limited parts I got that can get there and get back it will have to be big at launch!

Witch means expensive and with no save or revert, I gotta get it right in 1 or 2 try's with current cash.

[iCT]

If your game constantly crashes too, you will allow quick save of course...

[Skamp_X]

If your game constantly crashes too, you will allow quick save of course...

That's a different story, one game crash in the early stages and its over , so yes , if you have regular game crashes then save is ok,

but try and be honest , a failed launch or a design that can't get to it's destination is what it is , no quickloading there

Can't remember the last time the game crashed , so no saves here.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Skamp_X

[Skamp_X]

Hm I ended up doing the opposite of what I sayd, instead of going really big I did ....loads of small missions.

Each giving me 3-6 sience points (mostly 6) , and got specialized construction, but...

Almost feels a bit cheap, it was hard getting to the planets and moons I got to so far with what I had ,

but now I made 133 sience points in about 3 hours just repeating available missions...

Feels unbalanced, sience from other planets should just give more sience then doing a 'test LV1 in orbit' for example.

[Jasonden]

Okay, was working on this in 0.25 and had visited and nearly-fully-scienced the entire system, but still didn't complete the tech tree. Here's where I ended up:

There was probably some more that I could do -- advanced stuff back at the Mun for instance -- but was plateauing off on the science.

I tried this challenge in 0.90 and with the building upgrades it's just not possible. I quickly ran out of things to do without EVA and with an 18t ship limit. Money wasn't an issue per se, just the inability to buy buildings.

EDIT: Okay, I started a new game with normal (i.e., 1.0x instead of 0.1x) funds. And the weird thing is that now the prices of building upgrades have all come down by a factor of 10 too. Is this a bug? I mean, if the financial rewards are only 10% in hard mode, then why make the buildings 10x more expensive TOO?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Jasonden

[yafeshan]

it is quite possible to play hard mode in 0.90. if you manage to get orbit then you can get enough funds to do anything. just need some fund grinding.

[ticalc2014]

I tried this challenge in 0.90 and with the building upgrades it's just not possible. I quickly ran out of things to do without EVA and with an 18t ship limit. Money wasn't an issue per se, just the inability to buy buildings.

EDIT: Okay, I started a new game with normal (i.e., 1.0x instead of 0.1x) funds. And the weird thing is that now the prices of building upgrades have all come down by a factor of 10 too. Is this a bug? I mean, if the financial rewards are only 10% in hard mode, then why make the buildings 10x more expensive TOO?

From what I've seen, the "building upgrade" costs are linked to the "fund penalty" slider, so setting the slider at 1000% will thus increase the upgrade costs to 10x that of normal difficulty.

[Jasonden]

From what I've seen, the "building upgrade" costs are linked to the "fund penalty" slider, so setting the slider at 1000% will thus increase the upgrade costs to 10x that of normal difficulty.

Aha -- that makes more sense. I had set them both to max . . . That makes some sense, at least, in that they're decorrelated. Thanks for cluing me in!

[Amahula]

I was just about to post something simular to this!!!

I just have something different. I have no revert flight and quicksaving (taking risks is part of the fun!)

And the most important thing: I started with 0 funds, which was really difficult!

I am about as far as you are, I don't have the science jr. But with a 10% science reward it's not really worth it. I'm going for Jets right away!

I wish you good luck with your absurt hard (I called it ultra-hardcore)

[ticalc2014]

I was just about to post something simular to this!!!

I just have something different. I have no revert flight and quicksaving (taking risks is part of the fun!)

And the most important thing: I started with 0 funds, which was really difficult!

I am about as far as you are, I don't have the science jr. But with a 10% science reward it's not really worth it. I'm going for Jets right away!

I wish you good luck with your absurt hard (I called it ultra-hardcore)

It took me many hours to finally begin making progress with my game. 10% rewards, 1000% penalties, 0 starting funds, -1000 starting reputation, no reverting or quicksaves, etc. I accidentally accepted "survey" missions with surface reports, and with just a few things unlocked in the science tree, it ate away at my funds trying to wipe those out. Finally, I made it through those few missions, and got a couple of pilots in orbit to begin collecting science and income on the "crew report above xx,xxx near ........" missions. I got to about 50,000 funds, and now that I've got "Outsourced R&D" set at 10%, it's just a matter of plugging away with my newly unlocked jet engine parts, and satellites. I'm no plane designer, but even a basic plane piloted very poorly can knock off 5 or 6 surveys in a single flight, so in theory, I should be able to complete 2 contracts in a single flight, land, recover, accept new contracts, rinse and repeat. Certainly much more difficult than I thought it'd be with the new update.

I'm just glad to still have my original pilots, and be making progress, as I've never had much luck beyond hard, in the past.

[Amahula]

It took me many hours to finally begin making progress with my game. 10% rewards, 1000% penalties, 0 starting funds, -1000 starting reputation, no reverting or quicksaves, etc. I accidentally accepted "survey" missions with surface reports, and with just a few things unlocked in the science tree, it ate away at my funds trying to wipe those out. Finally, I made it through those few missions, and got a couple of pilots in orbit to begin collecting science and income on the "crew report above xx,xxx near ........" missions. I got to about 50,000 funds, and now that I've got "Outsourced R&D" set at 10%, it's just a matter of plugging away with my newly unlocked jet engine parts, and satellites. I'm no plane designer, but even a basic plane piloted very poorly can knock off 5 or 6 surveys in a single flight, so in theory, I should be able to complete 2 contracts in a single flight, land, recover, accept new contracts, rinse and repeat. Certainly much more difficult than I thought it'd be with the new update.

I'm just glad to still have my original pilots, and be making progress, as I've never had much luck beyond hard, in the past.

I just forgot.. I started with 0 rep. and 200% penalties. So you are a little bit more hardcore than I am (damn!).

I don't have any problems with funds, because i do just about everything with boosters (using the stacking trick I don't need any decoupers) and I love doing those surveys because they give like 9k funds and 7 science and I can do them in 2 or 3 flights of 1k loss per flight (assuming I aim well and recover the landing part).

I am really close to the jet engines but i imagine after that it's just easy grinding (instead of hard grinding now).

I was planning on stepping it up a notch with remote tech when I unlock satelites or TAC life support. I usually don't play with mods because my laptop is slow as it is, but a couple of parts and tweeks won't hurt.

BTW does the price of the KSC upgrades depend on penaltie %? so you have to get like 5.000.000 for the R&D upgrade?

[ticalc2014]

I just forgot.. I started with 0 rep. and 200% penalties. So you are a little bit more hardcore than I am (damn!).

I don't have any problems with funds, because i do just about everything with boosters (using the stacking trick I don't need any decoupers) and I love doing those surveys because they give like 9k funds and 7 science and I can do them in 2 or 3 flights of 1k loss per flight (assuming I aim well and recover the landing part).

I am really close to the jet engines but i imagine after that it's just easy grinding (instead of hard grinding now).

I was planning on stepping it up a notch with remote tech when I unlock satelites or TAC life support. I usually don't play with mods because my laptop is slow as it is, but a couple of parts and tweeks won't hurt.

BTW does the price of the KSC upgrades depend on penaltie %? so you have to get like 5.000.000 for the R&D upgrade?

Yes, the upgrades are tied to the "Funds Penalty" slider, so I need 5,100,000 for the R&D upgrade. At the rate funds are building right now, that might take a while! I do have Remote Tech running, so I've had a satellite mission fail because I forgot to deploy a longer range antenna/dish, but it was at least a manageable loss. I started this career before I realized the building upgrade costs were linked to the penalty slider, but decided to stick with it. I still need another 400 science to max out the tech tree before I'm looking for building upgrades, so I've got some time before funds become a huge issue.

[ticalc2014]

I decided to restart as I realized I had been throwing money away for a long time, and had a few failed satellite launches eat heavily into my limited funds. As in the OP's updated post on the 2nd page, I will be sticking with the "Can't get any harder" settings. In my last attempt, I waited too long to try to get to the Mun and Minmus, and think I can do much better. I also spent must of my funds foolishly trying to build up science to max out the starting tech tree, which ended up costing me when a few launches failed to reach their destination. I will be doing my best to make my launches more cost-efficient, by tweaking fuel quantities, and trying for multiple missions per launch, if possible. As long as the OP doesn't mind, I'll post periodical updates of my progress.

In addition, I will be keeping Remote Tech, which certainly makes those satellite launches more difficult, as it only takes a few minutes in the wrong orientation for those missions to turn into costly space junk. Best of luck to all those trying this at such unforgiving settings!

[Amahula]

I decided to restart as I realized I had been throwing money away for a long time, and had a few failed satellite launches eat heavily into my limited funds. As in the OP's updated post on the 2nd page, I will be sticking with the "Can't get any harder" settings. In my last attempt, I waited too long to try to get to the Mun and Minmus, and think I can do much better. I also spent must of my funds foolishly trying to build up science to max out the starting tech tree, which ended up costing me when a few launches failed to reach their destination. I will be doing my best to make my launches more cost-efficient, by tweaking fuel quantities, and trying for multiple missions per launch, if possible. As long as the OP doesn't mind, I'll post periodical updates of my progress.

In addition, I will be keeping Remote Tech, which certainly makes those satellite launches more difficult, as it only takes a few minutes in the wrong orientation for those missions to turn into costly space junk. Best of luck to all those trying this at such unforgiving settings!

I might have 200% penalties, but I still have 10% rewards and I'm sitting on 140k right now (and I haven't gotten above 100km yet). My advice is boosters, tweeking the amount of fuel and thrust. That saves a lot of money, having only one liq. fuel stage on top. And going for jet engines right away.

I definitely will be looking forward to updates!

[ticalc2014]

I might have 200% penalties, but I still have 10% rewards and I'm sitting on 140k right now (and I haven't gotten above 100km yet). My advice is boosters, tweeking the amount of fuel and thrust. That saves a lot of money, having only one liq. fuel stage on top. And going for jet engines right away.

I definitely will be looking forward to updates!

I played a few hours last night, working on the whole 5km -> 11km -> 22km -> 33km -> 56km -> Escape the Atmosphere sequence to get some funds started. Then went on to get into orbit to collect science from space near Kerbin. Moved on to place 3 ships in orbit to collect the "Visual survey above xx,xxx" rewards. I'm sitting at 70k in funds right now, and leaving those 3 in orbit until I have enough science to get some useful tech. I'm aiming for unmanned vessels before jets so I can at least encounter the Mun and Minmus to give myself more options in the science department. If I can get a few cheap satellites in orbit around the Mun, I can try to unlock the thermometer so I can begin the "temperature scans" around the Mun. I have 5 "crew report above" targets to complete right now, so that's another 17k or so in "free" money now that I have those few ships in orbit, so I should begin building funds pretty soon. Also, I have been trying to use boosters to accomplish as much as possible, but they do make it difficult (for me, at least) to target the "crew report below" missions as I always end up missing the mark by just enough to make for a wasted launch.

I will continue plugging away, once I get enough reputation, I'll start pumping out the science with one of the strategies (probably commit 5-10% of funds) until I have a good chunk of the starting tech tree unlocked. Certainly takes a bit more planning than I was used to in the past, and once I get those satellites going, Remote Tech will NOT be my friend.

[Amahula]

I was going to add some mods today, but the remote tech mod has not been updated to 0.90. Are you just playing with the 0.25 version?

I will make a backup nevertheless.

So the survey above xx.xxxm can be done above 70.000m as well? I thought it had to be done inside the atmosphere.

BTW did you know the top of the VAB and SPH are two extra biomes? that's like 5 science close to home! :]

[ticalc2014]

I was going to add some mods today, but the remote tech mod has not been updated to 0.90. Are you just playing with the 0.25 version?

I will make a backup nevertheless.

So the survey above xx.xxxm can be done above 70.000m as well? I thought it had to be done inside the atmosphere.

BTW did you know the top of the VAB and SPH are two extra biomes? that's like 5 science close to home! :]

I did not know the two buildings had their own biomes, I'll have to make sure to take advantage of that, thanks!

As far as I can tell, Remote Tech is working fine with 0.90, using whatever version I currently have installed (1.5.1 I believe). The only problems I've had with it are of my own doing, not setting up my connections correctly, and leaving ships in the wrong orientation so they run out of charge. As far as the survey missions, yes, they seem to work up to around 100km, but less consistently the closer to that mark you get. That's one nice thing about the missions, I can park a few ships in orbit, and complete the "above xx,xxxm" missions using those same few ships. I do launch more if I can't get one of my orbiting ships to pass over after a few tries, as I don't like running up the in-game time. I feel like I'm doing awful if I see I'm into the 2nd year and only have 80k funds, and such.

EDIT: Just activated the "Outsourced R&D" strategy at 5% funds income. I've also opted to unlock "Aerodynamics" for the Basic Jet Engine, as it will only take another couple of completed "survey" missions to get enough science to unlock "Electrics" for my satellite solar panels.

Edited December 26, 2014 by ticalc2014

[ticalc2014]

I have my satellite relays set up around Kerbin and the Mun, need about 135 more science to max out the starting tech tree, and currently sit around 283k in funds. Last night was rather productive, and I took full advantage of the "Equatorial orbit of the Mun" satellite missions to get paid to set up those Munar relays.

Slowly but surely, progress is being made. I've also just noticed that with my last few satellite missions, I'm back to positive reputation from my starting -1000!

Edited December 27, 2014 by ticalc2014

[Amahula]

I have my satellite relays set up around Kerbin and the Mun, need about 135 more science to max out the starting tech tree, and currently sit around 283k in funds. Last night was rather productive, and I took full advantage of the "Equatorial orbit of the Mun" satellite missions to get paid to set up those Munar relays.

http://s17.postimg.org/3n9nvp4nj/Satellite_Network.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/uwl1a75qn/Tech_Tree.jpg

Slowly but surely, progress is being made. I've also just noticed that with my last few satellite missions, I'm back to positive reputation from my starting -1000!

That's really impressive. I haven't made any progress because of ....loads family visiting. Those satellites look sweet. Nice and spread out. 120 degrees between each. Did you make any calculations for it or did you just fiddle until it worked?

[ticalc2014]

I didn't plan much beyond the basic delta-V calculations, so my orbits were tweaked until things kind of lined up correctly. Over time, they have drifted somewhat, and two of my satellites around the Mun are nearly on top of one another. I should have enough delta-V to make some minor adjustments on a couple of them to try to work around the one that is out of fuel. Using the flight computer, setting throttle at 0.69% and burning for 0.001s at a time should do the trick for really fine tuning my orbits to try and match up the parameters nearly perfectly, I just haven't had the time with trying to set up multiple satellite networks. I may end up having to launch a few more to ensure 100% uptime with the drifting taking place, but I have another 100k in funds to play with.

I've maxed out the starting tech tree, upgraded "Mission Control" so I can have 7 active contracts, and established a network of satellites similar to that of the Mun, around Minmus. Now it's just a matter of building funds until I can upgrade my R&D building to get those long-range dishes for moving beyond the moons of Kerbin. The hardest thing so far has been trying to make that Minmus encounter without patched conics, but I've only had to count 2 or 3 missions as a loss because of missed encounters, and one of them ended up working out on a later encounter. Only 5 million in funds to go for that R&D upgrade!

Edited December 28, 2014 by ticalc2014

[Jasonden]

I'm playing on super-hard but with normal penalties -- it's expensive enough to upgrade the buildings with 10% income without making them 10x more expensive, too. But the game on this level is VERY different from what it was in 0.25. Back then "absurd-hard" was all about making cheap ships so that you could turn a profit on a "return science from the Mun", "Plant a flag on the Mun", and "return science from space around Kerbin". I developed a series of reusable launchers for the purpose, allowing me to run missions for the cost of fuel.

But in the new game, with FinePrint, the economics have changed. Now with the money and science that you can get from a good contract, you can pile-on with contracts at a single body and send a single, more expensive, but more capable, mission to make lots of revenue. Then the cost of the rocket becomes less important. This is good, too, because with the new part and launch mass restriction, it's WAY harder to build a reusable launcher early.

[ticalc2014]

I'm playing on super-hard but with normal penalties -- it's expensive enough to upgrade the buildings with 10% income without making them 10x more expensive, too. But the game on this level is VERY different from what it was in 0.25. Back then "absurd-hard" was all about making cheap ships so that you could turn a profit on a "return science from the Mun", "Plant a flag on the Mun", and "return science from space around Kerbin". I developed a series of reusable launchers for the purpose, allowing me to run missions for the cost of fuel.

But in the new game, with FinePrint, the economics have changed. Now with the money and science that you can get from a good contract, you can pile-on with contracts at a single body and send a single, more expensive, but more capable, mission to make lots of revenue. Then the cost of the rocket becomes less important. This is good, too, because with the new part and launch mass restriction, it's WAY harder to build a reusable launcher early.

I probably should have left the penalties at 100%, but if I wanted to make sure if I didn't complete a contract in time, it was more costly than normal, so as to keep with the increased difficulty of the career. Do I wish I hadn't gone with 1000%? Yes, it is a bit tedious having to complete a ton of missions to upgrade a single building, so perhaps 300% or so would have been sufficient, but I went with the hardest settings I could, and can't change that now. As you said, it is far different with Fine Print than it has been in the past, so I can now collect a LOT of science and funds from a single craft because of the repetitive nature of the temperature scan contracts, and the like, so it won't be as difficult to collect those funds as it was in past updates.

For example, I launched a new Minmus temperature scan vessel that was rather costly, at around 12k (had been keeping them around 7k). The reason it was so expensive was, rather than wanting to set a probe in orbit, and wait to try to get a close enough encounter to complete the missions, I made sure to launch about 3500 extra delta-V so as to allow for many small corrections along the way. I still have about 1200 delta-V remaining, and that was with a precautionary landing on one of the targets that required me to go below 2700m. I wanted to make sure it didn't collide with the hills surrounding the Lesser Flats, if I were to lose my satellite connection. It didn't end up being a problem, but the satellites were very close to the horizon, and I didn't want to lose the ship. I've already pulled in about 120k with that ship, and will have plenty of further opportunities to increase that total. For the extra 5k in launch costs, it was well worth it to avoid the "set it and forget it" type orbit that some of my previous launches had ended up in.

[Amahula]

I probably should have left the penalties at 100%, but if I wanted to make sure if I didn't complete a contract in time, it was more costly than normal, so as to keep with the increased difficulty of the career. Do I wish I hadn't gone with 1000%? Yes, it is a bit tedious having to complete a ton of missions to upgrade a single building, so perhaps 300% or so would have been sufficient, but I went with the hardest settings I could, and can't change that now. As you said, it is far different with Fine Print than it has been in the past, so I can now collect a LOT of science and funds from a single craft because of the repetitive nature of the temperature scan contracts, and the like, so it won't be as difficult to collect those funds as it was in past updates.

For example, I launched a new Minmus temperature scan vessel that was rather costly, at around 12k (had been keeping them around 7k). The reason it was so expensive was, rather than wanting to set a probe in orbit, and wait to try to get a close enough encounter to complete the missions, I made sure to launch about 3500 extra delta-V so as to allow for many small corrections along the way. I still have about 1200 delta-V remaining, and that was with a precautionary landing on one of the targets that required me to go below 2700m. I wanted to make sure it didn't collide with the hills surrounding the Lesser Flats, if I were to lose my satellite connection. It didn't end up being a problem, but the satellites were very close to the horizon, and I didn't want to lose the ship. I've already pulled in about 120k with that ship, and will have plenty of further opportunities to increase that total. For the extra 5k in launch costs, it was well worth it to avoid the "set it and forget it" type orbit that some of my previous launches had ended up in.

In case you regret your decision, you can change those parameters with the persistent file in the save folder.

Open the file with notepad, scroll down couple times and you'll see a CAREER section, with the multipliers (the gains 0.1 and the loss 10).

Just simply change the values to whatever you want. I guess in this way it CAN get harder.

I take no responsibilities for corrupted files and blabla

[ticalc2014]

In case you regret your decision, you can change those parameters with the persistent file in the save folder.

Open the file with notepad, scroll down couple times and you'll see a CAREER section, with the multipliers (the gains 0.1 and the loss 10).

Just simply change the values to whatever you want. I guess in this way it CAN get harder.

I take no responsibilities for corrupted files and blabla

Set the gains multiplier at 100 for one Keosynchronous satellite and make my fund "issues" go away! At least I know it is possible to change those values if I decide it is no longer fun having to place about 350 of those in orbit, just to upgrade the R&D building, once. Thanks!