Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[Briefmoment]

Just going to leave this relic here for whom ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW5ozq4Tqew9

[Niemand303]

Awesome! We have a guide on submitting on the wiki (link in the OP), or just jump on the IRC channel (also in the OP) and someone can help you with submitting your stuff. I always love to see more stuff added to the game, especially some russian stuff!

Thanks! Actually, I decided to make it simpler and make an extra config for Tantares, so it would have something like "default support" for RO.

[Glumrug]

This might be a silly question, but this if my first time using many of the included mods (Everything with out an asterisk, StageRecovery and Kerbal Construction time) and I'm having a couple problems. I've tried to read all the faqs for all the mods, but there is a lot of info once you consider how much is going on in total realism.

Engine Ignition - Is there any way to get more than 1 ignitor into an single ignition engine?

How does the ignitor toolbox work? Reload during EVA?

Throttle - Graphically throttle is working. But fuel consumption doesn't noticably change between 10% and 100% throttle . Is throttle supposed to be disabled on some engine types?

[NathanKell]

Gilumrug, welcome to the forums! (And to RO).

1. There is no way, no. In regular Engine Ignitor gameplay, you can use a kerbal and the toolbox (with KAS) to add an ignition back, but not in RO.

2. Per above.

3. Not very many real rocket engines are throttleable. When you look at a part's tooltip when you hover over its icon on the part list in VAB/SPH, you can see the minimum and maximum thrust. Often these will be the same, i.e. the engine is not throttleable. For engines with multiple configurations, when you open the engine GUI, you'll see the min throttle percent. The player's throttle ingame allows you to vary between an engine's min thrust and max thrust; if these are the same, it will of course do nothing.

[Felger]

This might be a silly question, but this if my first time using many of the included mods (Everything with out an asterisk, StageRecovery and Kerbal Construction time) and I'm having a couple problems. I've tried to read all the faqs for all the mods, but there is a lot of info once you consider how much is going on in total realism.

Engine Ignition - Is there any way to get more than 1 ignitor into an single ignition engine?

How does the ignitor toolbox work? Reload during EVA?

Throttle - Graphically throttle is working. But fuel consumption doesn't noticably change between 10% and 100% throttle . Is throttle supposed to be disabled on some engine types?

That reminds me, I've got CKAN configs for a few of those with asterisks, I should check and see if they've been pushed over yet.

On Engine Ignition, realistically speaking you shouldn't really re-ignite most engines. You have to specifically design an engine to be safely re-ignited for it to function. As to how the EngineIgnitor mod actually works for 'refuelling' the engine ignitor? No idea, I'd probably try alt+right clicking to transfer ignition fluid, or doing it in EVA.

On Throttle, This is intended, if you check the minimum thrust (minimum throttle position, technically speaking) for most engines it's the same as the max throttle. Most engines are not throttleable, especially launch engines. There're two ways to get around this: Find a throttleable engine (Example: lunar descent engine), Or throttle by having multiple engines, and turning some off. (Example: Saturn V)

[Glumrug]

I'll just have to suck it up then!

It's pretty fun. I started a new hard career game with the RO and it just feels brutal at low tech. It is much more expensive to get into orbit, and most of the good engines are single ignition. It's hard to recover middle stages because they tend to burn up before you can get your payload into orbit and deal with them.

[NathanKell]

Ah, if you intend to play career I suggest you look at RP-0. It's very much a WIP, but even some career support is better than the "no career support" of RO itself.

I would certainly suggest familiarizing yourself with RO via sandbox play first, and by reading some of the tutorials on the wiki. It's a *very* different game from stock KSP, there's a lot to take in and to do differently, and it's best to staunch bad habits early.

[Fizwalker]

I could use a few tips and pointers.... >.> And do what any great spy.... Um... Engineer does... Is there a .craft file for a first orbital booster I can... Um... Steal... Borrow? I'm having issues with a two stage satellite booster, that I am leaning towards a three stage craft. (So far, the end of my first stage, at a minimum, always has a TWR of over 9.)

First option I tried was to throttle down.... Which ended disastrously each time, until I figured out the engines don't throttle down >.< Secondly, I tried SRBs, and this actually has potential to work.. (my poor controlling of said rocket... hmmm now that I think about it, the lack of control in the 2nd stage ended that flight and I don't know why I lost control-- Engine was still firing, but it seemed like it wasn't gimballing was at issue--Something to look into more closely!) But I wanted to learn how to build a craft that doesn't need that... Those attempts were all made with guidance from Ferram's guide. Next I remembered seeing a guide by Nathan and I tried to build a rocket from that. I'm guessing that my satellite was much lighter than what Nathan was using because using 3 of those RD-0146s had a base TWR of over 2 and over 5k m/s of dV. I haven't finished that design. Oh and I never found that KB KhIMMASH S5.92/98M engine in RLA.... >.> (I don't really care about the satellite, I just want to get it into orbit! lol) Oh and I tried building the Explorer rocket from the FASA pack.... I haven't been able to find the nose cone from it... and I know it was there, because I built it in my regular version of KSP. (So far, all of my rockets have ended horribly..... And Jeb died on reentry in the Mercury-Atlas due to the fact that he entered entirely too steeply... almost like he didn't complete the gravity turn.... Or something...... >.>) Anyway, I'm tired and rambling. Any guidance.... Further guidance would be much appreciated! Thank you all in advance!

[Hattivat]

Nosecone for Juno I (the Explorer rocket) should be in the Control section. Unfortunately, it doesn't work properly at the moment, which will be fixed in the next release. And in any case, Explorer is pretty hard to get into orbit, I wouldn't recommend it as your first rocket.

As for your second stage problems - not all real-life engines gimbal, you might have picked one that doesn't. In this case, use RCS to retain control of your rocket.

Craft file - here's one for the rocket I've made for that introduction guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3j0n7bkjmamxsl/Komsat%202.craft?dl=0

It requires quite a lot of mods though: AIES Aerospace, RLA Stockalike, FASA launch towers, Soviet Engines and Remote Tech. Komsat included, the rocket is more than enough to lift it into a geostationary orbit if you do it right.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Hattivat

[Goozeman]

I could use a few tips and pointers.... >.> And do what any great spy.... Um... Engineer does... Is there a .craft file for a first orbital booster I can... Um... Steal... Borrow? I'm having issues with a two stage satellite booster, that I am leaning towards a three stage craft. (So far, the end of my first stage, at a minimum, always has a TWR of over 9.)

First option I tried was to throttle down.... Which ended disastrously each time, until I figured out the engines don't throttle down >.< Secondly, I tried SRBs, and this actually has potential to work.. (my poor controlling of said rocket... hmmm now that I think about it, the lack of control in the 2nd stage ended that flight and I don't know why I lost control-- Engine was still firing, but it seemed like it wasn't gimballing was at issue--Something to look into more closely!) But I wanted to learn how to build a craft that doesn't need that... Those attempts were all made with guidance from Ferram's guide. Next I remembered seeing a guide by Nathan and I tried to build a rocket from that. I'm guessing that my satellite was much lighter than what Nathan was using because using 3 of those RD-0146s had a base TWR of over 2 and over 5k m/s of dV. I haven't finished that design. Oh and I never found that KB KhIMMASH S5.92/98M engine in RLA.... >.> (I don't really care about the satellite, I just want to get it into orbit! lol) Oh and I tried building the Explorer rocket from the FASA pack.... I haven't been able to find the nose cone from it... and I know it was there, because I built it in my regular version of KSP. (So far, all of my rockets have ended horribly..... And Jeb died on reentry in the Mercury-Atlas due to the fact that he entered entirely too steeply... almost like he didn't complete the gravity turn.... Or something...... >.>) Anyway, I'm tired and rambling. Any guidance.... Further guidance would be much appreciated! Thank you all in advance!

You may want to try reducing the mass ratio of your first stage; let the second stage do more work. The mass of the rocket after expending the first stage fuel but before staging should be about 1/5 the lift-off mass. If you are still having TWR problems, either pull an Atlas I/II and drop away two engines part way through the burn, or pull a Saturn-V and shut down an engine or two early.

[Fizwalker]

Thank you for the tips! Thank you for the ship Hattivat! I shall be reverse engineer... Um... Studying it closely and direct our engineers to use what they learn in our future projects!

That said, I have successfully orbited my first satellite! It was ugly..... And I ended up using the engine on the satellite (which I didn't intend to do.... But, hey! Mission accomplished right?!) with the Pyron IB. (Pyron I had issues with control... IA um.... Well, we skipped IA and went to IB) I'm not going to mention the other rockets I tried.... I actually ended up using some structural fuselage parts for extra weight so I could bring things closer to where I thought I needed them to be. I think my next goal is to create some 'dummy' payloads to get more practice launching things and get a small stable of reliable launch systems.

Thank you both again for you tips!

P.S. Jeb's been resurrected as I was screwing around with RVE and ended up breaking something, thus having to reinstall everything again.

[CapitanCrash]

Hello All,

I have an issue with CKAN and RSS/RO. FAR gives me a mach of 1.2 on the launch pad. Any idea why this might be? I installed as per the directions but nothing I do from a full KSP reinstall and restart seem to remove this issue.

Thanks!

Crash

[Hattivat]

Hello All,

I have an issue with CKAN and RSS/RO. FAR gives me a mach of 1.2 on the launch pad. Any idea why this might be? I installed as per the directions but nothing I do from a full KSP reinstall and restart seem to remove this issue.

Thanks!

Crash

Um, are you by chance looking at the "orbital velocity" reading? If so, then there is no issue - 1.2 mach is the speed of the Earth's rotation around its axis. You should be looking at the "surface velocity" reading, which should read 0 at the launchpad.

[Fizwalker]

I have to ask Hattivat, do you use any of the tanks from those packs? (I have deleted them all to save memory... I wish I could run this in 64bit... >.<)

[CommanderSmith]

So I found the cause of my engine issues. It turns out that, when you install MechJeb, it automatically selects "Limit Acceleration". So, whenever my acceleration was over 40m/s^2 (which is pretty much all the time because you cannot throttle), my engines would die. Thanks for all the help you guys provided though. I know I can count on you.

[Hattivat]

I have to ask Hattivat, do you use any of the tanks from those packs? (I have deleted them all to save memory... I wish I could run this in 64bit... >.<)

No, I don't, and what you did was smart, it's one of the easiest ways to save memory with this mod. I only kept the KW rocketry side tanks due to their resemblance of the ones on Soyuz, but will delete those as well, as soon as we get a decent Soyuz model configured (which should be soon). Also, you can run this in 64 bit.... on linux

[dimovski]

Apropos configured Soyuz, how does one configure an engine to use it with realism overhaul?

This:

@MODEL

{

@scale = 2.607462, 1.864719, 2.607462

}

and the thrust curve (so just about 70% of each .cfg ) is what I don't understand...

EDIT: Also, if you divide the fuel mass (wet-dry) of a kerosene tank by 1.02, and use 1.02 as kerosene density in the game, what would be the difference compared to 0.82 and 0.82 in the config, performance wise?

Edited December 5, 2014 by dimovski

[Hattivat]

MODEL {} changes the dimensions of the model. This is done to make it conform to the real life dimensions of the thing you want to configure it as.

Thrust curve: { 0 350 (line break here) 1 310 } means that at 0 pressure (= vacuum) the Isp is 350, while at "1" pressure (= Earth sea-level) the Isp is 310.

As for your last question, I'm not sure what you mean by "dividing the fuel mass by 1.02". Changing the density would in itself slightly reduce the tank dry mass per kilogram of fuel, resulting in a very slightly higher delta-v.

[Fizwalker]

I was curious because, while I have the mods you listed, I cannot load the komsat file. It dawns on me though that my copy of RLA seems to be missing an engine and thus might be the issue. Time to look into that!

Edit: I`m stuck with winblows alas....

Edited December 5, 2014 by Fizwalker

[Hattivat]

Don't worry too much about "winblows", I use it most of the time too, and it can also be made to run reasonably well. As for the engine - yes, I did use one of the RLA engines. I don't see why it would be missing from your version, though.

[CAMFA]

Hey guys I need help. I installed rss through the ckan thing. When I try to put a decoupler on an engine to make another stage, the engine does not have a shroud. Its honestly unplayable if i cant fix this.

Is there a trick to make a shroud or something? Please help guys, I would really appreciate it.

[Hattivat]

You do not "fix" this, it's intended, as the stock shrouds would be useless for RSS purposes. You are supposed to be using the procedural interstages instead, see here: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/wiki/First-RO-Rocket

Hope this helps, happy flying!

Edited December 5, 2014 by Hattivat

[CAMFA]

You do not "fix" this, it's intended, as the stock shrouds would be useless for RSS purposes. You are supposed to be using the procedural interstages instead, see here: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/wiki/First-RO-Rocket

Hope this helps, happy flying!

Thank you so much, this helps.

I really appreciate it.

[TeeGee]

Silly question but what other tank types are pressurized other than the service module types? Balloon cryo? Balloon?

[Hattivat]

Silly question but what other tank types are pressurized other than the service module types? Balloon cryo? Balloon?

Balloon tanks are the opposite of pressurized, they don't even have a rigid structure Pressurized tanks are rigid, plus they have additional tanks of gas (usually helium) that is used to fill up the vacuum left by used-up fuel, and thus keep the rest of fuel under pressure. This makes them heavier, but allows for pressure-fed engines, which are much more reliable in weightless conditions than other engine types.

As far as Procedural Parts are concerned, only tanks set as service module are pressurized. Other than that, appropriate tanks from mods are defined to be pressurized as well, e.g. the Apollo Service Module from the FASA mod is a pressurized tank.