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Is there an official SSTMAB challenge?


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Hello all,

Apropos of the Single Stage to Mun and Back thread I started a couple of days ago, in which I got lots of helpful design/piloting advice for my own SSTMAB, I'm now curious if anybody has turned this objective into an official challenge. I didn't see one in the first couple of pages of the challenges forum, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. So is there? If not and I get mine working, I will start one. Suggestions made by commenters on my design question thread have provided a nice list of knock-on achievements to round the challenge out....

Edited by herbal space program
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Hello all,

Apropos of the Single Stage to Mun and Back thread I started a couple of days ago, in which I got lots of helpful design/piloting advice for my own SSTMAB, I'm now curious if anybody has turned this objective into an official challenge. I didn't see one in the first couple of pages of the challenges forum, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. So is there? If not and I get mine working, I will start one. Suggestions made by commenters on my design question thread have provided a nice list of knock-on achievements to round the challenge out....

There's the Double Mission Challenge which is involving a lot of SSTM (then back to KSC, then back to the Mun, then back to KSC, then...) designs. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/94210-The-Double-Mission-Challenge

This could be different enough to be interesting, though. As for stretch goals...

* Do it in style: spaceplane, the sleeker the better.

* Tour company: do it while carrying lotsa passengers.

* Take a rover with you (like this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1504987&viewfull=1#post1504987).

* Take a laboratory with you.

* Do it without using nukes.

* Do it without using jets.

* Land on the dark side.

* Speed challenge: shortest possible KSC -> Mun -> KSC elapsed time.

* Do it IVA.

* How many biomes can you hit while you're up there?

etc.

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I think its fairly easy to do in stock with nuke engines.

Use turbojet and air hogging to get into orbit for miniscule use of Lf+Ox

Nukes to Mun surface and back.

Using NEAR, I just took a crew shuttle to Minmus orbit with ~900 m/s of dV left, it was using aerospikes, and I had NEAR, which though it decreases drag, it increases the non-Jet dV demands of your craft, because you can only get to about 1,600 m/s on jets - 400 m/s less than you can get in stock (and also lower in the atmosphere).

Jet TWR is so good in stock that you can basically forgo the wings entirely.

I once also build a rapier +ion engined plane that made it to the mun and back. I could have had even more fuel to spare if I used the ion engines more to get to the Mun (I wasn't willing to wait that long, they were providing 4kn of thrust, from 179 total kN)

I was pretty low on fuel after orbital insertion, and I used the ions to start from a relatively high orbit, and decelerate as much as possible (no orbit scraping mountaintops followed by a suicide burn here), before a suicide burn using the rapier. I think I also needed to use the ions to circularize and get back to kerbin.

One could easily scale it up to a 2 jet design, swap the rapiers for turbos, and and aerospikes for ~100 m/s savings before the jets are switched off, and then a roughly 8% dV increase due to the higher rocket ISP. I also was carrying too much jet fuel.

The challenge is quite easy if you allow use of nukes or ions, and stock aero

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There is no dedicated challenge that I'm aware of. Landing on other bodies is an optional part of the K-prize, though (just click the logo in my signature).

Hmm. I'd like to add more depth to the SS Munar challenge, but I don't want to seem impertinent. How do you think it would be received if I did one with optional achievements for things like lowest total deltaV, visiting both Mun and Minmus, no nukes, making a polar landing etc.?

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If your craft in that other thread can already single stage to the Mun's surface, and back to Mun orbit, all you really need to do is use cubic struts (they have physics signifigance set to 1 -> they are massless and dragless) to add an ion engine or two (or 3 or 4), and then slap a few Xenon tanks on your craft, and plaster it in OX-Stat panels (which are also massless and dragless), and you can perapsis kick back to an aerocapture on Kerbin.

As I already said Nukes, Ions, and Turbojets make it really easy.

The Nuke is the only one that isn't OP'd compared to real life stats.

FWIW, I've seen single stage ot laythe and back (granted, that only requires about 5,000 m/s of non-atmospheric dV)

Edited by KerikBalm
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If your craft in that other thread can already single stage to the Mun's surface, and back to Mun orbit, all you really need to do is use cubic struts (they have physics signifigance set to 1 -> they are massless and dragless) to add an ion engine or two (or 3 or 4), and then slap a few Xenon tanks on your craft, and plaster it in OX-Stat panels (which are also massless and dragless), and you can perapsis kick back to an aerocapture on Kerbin.

As I already said Nukes, Ions, and Turbojets make it really easy.

The Nuke is the only one that isn't OP'd compared to real life stats.

I'm guessing if I drop a couple of fuselage sections and put nukes for my engines I'll get a plane that makes it easily as well. I'll probably try that this afternoon. Clearly, higher hoops, like no nukes, size sub-challenges, multiple landings, etc. will be required to make it more interesting.

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Do carrying a tiny ion or argon gas fueled lander to orbit in a Spaceplane cargo-hold, then using the lander to go to Mun, land and get back again to Kerbin orbit, dock with Spaceplane cargo hold and then deorbit count?

Technically just a single stage to the Mun and back *cough*...

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I'm guessing if I drop a couple of fuselage sections and put nukes for my engines I'll get a plane that makes it easily as well.

Not nukes, but nuke -- singular. A vessel of that size doesn't need a second LV-N and maybe couldn't even afford it.

I'll probably try that this afternoon. Clearly, higher hoops, like no nukes, size sub-challenges, multiple landings, etc. will be required to make it more interesting.

Don't put it on too thick, though. You'll have more participants if people can use the challenge to showcase craft that they happen to have around anyway, and/or if the challenge has side benefits that can be carried over into regular gameplay (in this case, a Mun-capable craft could also make a good probe delivery system), OR if the challenge is so weird as to pique people's curiosity (e.g. "Ice Skating on Minmus"). The first two require somewhat loose restrictions about parts and mission profile; a novelty challenge can be very specific, but shouldn't require a lot of design an planning.

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I actually did put two nukes on, and after my TMI I still have a good 2000 deltaV left, I've got it made in the shade.

Yup, nukes make distances easy. It can be done without 'em, though, it just requires a bit more fuel.

Actually, that could be another stretch goal: who can make it with the least efficient engine. A KR-2L powered Munlander could be fun...

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I'm pretty sure I saw one a few months back. I even had a go at it (and failed)

I'll have a look if i can find it again.

ah here it is.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85240-Munar-Cruise-Line-Challenge%21-100-Re-usable-SSTO-from-KSC-to-Munar-surface-in-style%21?highlight=SSTM

Edited by DeathSabre
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I'm pretty sure I saw one a few months back. I even had a go at it (and failed)

I'll have a look if i can find it again.

ah here it is.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85240-Munar-Cruise-Line-Challenge%21-100-Re-usable-SSTO-from-KSC-to-Munar-surface-in-style%21?highlight=SSTM

I like it! If I were to post one though, I would require that you land the whole ship on the moon and take off again. Using LOR makes the whole thing quite a bit less difficult, since you only need to drop a tiny lander down the Mun's gravity well. Moreover, after messing about a bit more and seeing how far you can actually get, I think it would be more fun if the objective was landing on multiple bodies. Right now what I envisage is different numbers of points for each body you might land on and return from, based on total deltaV required, For example, I might give 3 points for Minmus, 6 points for Mun, and 1,000 points for Eve. I would also add point multipliers for multiple bodies, upping the body-specific score by a larger factor for higher numbers in sequence. For example, Mun might be worth 6 points as the first body, 12 points as a second body, and 24 points as a third body. In each case, you would have to completely exit the body's SOI, return to the surface, and then back to Kerbin for successive landings on the same body to count.

Additionally, I would have multiple classes, with higher base scores for the heavier ones. These would include Kerbocycles with only an ECS, Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 cockpit-based designs. I would probably also have a score enhancement for not using nukes and one for carrying 5+ kerbals. All parts would have to be stock, and no navigational aid mods, aerodynamic mods, or extreme part clipping would be allowed. It seems like this would allow for many different strategies for getting the highest score, making the challenge more interesting overall. Anyway, I currently have both a Mk2-based design that can probably do a Mun-Minmus tour and a kerbocycle that has well over 6,000 deltaV at LKO. Once I have these documented as seed missions, I'll probably go ahead and post the challenge. It will be very interesting to see what people can come up with!

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There's the Double Mission Challenge which is involving a lot of SSTM (then back to KSC, then back to the Mun, then back to KSC, then...) designs. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/94210-The-Double-Mission-Challenge

This could be different enough to be interesting, though. As for stretch goals...

* Do it in style: spaceplane, the sleeker the better.

* Tour company: do it while carrying lotsa passengers.

* Take a rover with you (like this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1504987&viewfull=1#post1504987).

* Take a laboratory with you.

* Do it without using nukes.

* Do it without using jets.

* Land on the dark side.

* Speed challenge: shortest possible KSC -> Mun -> KSC elapsed time.

* Do it IVA.

* How many biomes can you hit while you're up there?

etc.

I really like the multi-body point multiplier system, but what I have in mind is for single-stage vehicles only. Allowing the dropping of parts really makes it a completely different challenge.

Edited by herbal space program
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