[PLUGIN, PARTS 0.17] Zoxygene (Life Support) mod v0.7.1 (12.09.27)

[maro]

@Olson

For some reasosn the Zoxygene recharge panels - PowerTech edition - dont working at the moment.

Had same problems for myself today - using standard panels solved the problems for the moment.

[BaronVonchesto]

can we have fuel cells as well? and really what is the justification for the laser drills? Drilling into the mun for oxygen?

[maro]

I like that plugin very much, because it adds more realism.

One question.

Are there any numbers for how much power is produced by the pannels, how much power is stored in the batts ans how much is used to produce Zoxygene i a given timeframe?

Because i think Zoxygene system weights and balances of production and usage are unbalanced compared to realistic numbers.

- oxygene can not be produced by solar panels - there should be tanks - and the end is the end....

- and for powering the systems for one human would require at least 20m of solar pannels running at 100%. If you have 50% shadow time during orbiting would therefore require 40m to also equaly charge the batts during sun light.

For example some measurements here:

solar panels:

I read about the Ranger - spaceprobes series - very early examples of space probes - and they had two solar panels with a span of 5,2m (~9000cells) poroducing about 200W. A batt weighting about 11,5kg stored about 1.000Wh.

And in Ranger 6 there where two 1200Wh batts for running two 60W TV-channels trough a high gain dish antenna for 9 hours.

the omnidirectional transponder for the commands used only 3W

fuel cells:

Three fuel cells in the Apollo CM produced each 1.400Wh (1,4kWh) - each weighting 111kg, 1,1m long by 0,56m in diameter - all together feeded by two 0,8m spherical tanks with 13kg liquid hydrogen each and two 0,66m spherical tanks with 148kg liquid oxygene each. About 60% was power output for the electrical systems. The whole system was sufficent for max. 14days of operation.

Therfore each astronaut used 3kg liquid oxygene for breathing per day and has a power consumption of 840Wh for running all systems requiring ~200g of propelants per h.

Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators:

Earlier versions producing about 5W per kg (whole system including propelant) and lifetime can be rounded to 10years if you not calculate that they loose power over lifetime (20 % less after 14 years in case of MMRTG )

[SquirrelMachine]

While I do agree that the system may be be balanced in a realistic manner, we are also talking about little green aliens here, who is to say what their zoxygene requirements are. Kerbal technology does not necessarily need to balance against humans, but kerbals. Furthermore, in reality O2 is not really used up, merely converted to CO2, if there was a system capable of reversing this conversion, and we assume the solar panels are running such a system, then the system isn\'t actually all that unrealistic. Just my personal opinion on it.

[maro]

While I do agree that the system may be be balanced in a realistic manner, we are also talking about little green aliens here, who is to say what their zoxygene requirements are. Kerbal technology does not necessarily need to balance against humans, but kerbals. Furthermore, in reality O2 is not really used up, merely converted to CO2, if there was a system capable of reversing this conversion, and we assume the solar panels are running such a system, then the system isn\'t actually all that unrealistic. Just my personal opinion on it.

Agree partly

Kerbals seems to be a lot smaler species then the Humans from Earth. So lets downsize theyr requirements.

But lets think about the long run of relistic requirements.

You want to build a space station, a mun station, fly to other planets sometime....maybe.

Lets put up some solar panels an some batts and here we go seems much to easy.

Now you can orbit for weeks (setting time to 10.000x) until minmus grav catches you.....hmmm

Running a space and mun station and you not have to resuply it from time to time.....hmmm

I think there are allready a lot of easying factors in there....crews need no foodstuf, they are not weakened because of lack of gravity, long time radiation do not hurt them, they have no communication delay over to mission control over long distances, they dont sleep.....

So why not constructing a wonder spaceplane using endless antimater instead of fuel and can fly to and from everywhere as fast as Star Treks Voyager and crews get there foodstuff from replicators....do you like that ?

I would like as much realism as possible and then having fun to search and test solution for those problems and also take a look into the forum to be amazed about ideas others have developed and ways they have found to handle those natural shortages.

[SquirrelMachine]

Well, the satellite relay mod can help with com delay realism, if you wish to add it in. I use it myself. I would love to actually be able to restock food, fuel, and other consumables, but sadly we can\'t yet. I\'m not against all realism, I\'m just saying I find this current compromise good enough.

A feature I would like to see is the ability to add more ZO2 modules. I am working on setting up a mun habitat with zoxygene, crewtanks, and the spacedock mod. I have also included a return vehicle to evacuate my kerbals should the need arise. However, detaching this vehicle also means detaching the ZO2 system from the extra crewtanks which would remain on the surface. So while kerbals can enter the crewtanks that are left behind, I could not give them ZO2, even though they have the equipment to produce it. Have not yet tested it, but I assume this would be the case.

[Valaco]

Umm maybe I am missing something but what drains the ZO2 on this? I been trying to figure this out for a few hours. lol

[SquirrelMachine]

How does this mod handle if a ship is underwater? The balast mod makes it possible to create submarines, which would in theory also need to store zoxygene and carry it with them. However, I am guessing this only uses up ZO2 if the ship is outside atmosphere, and not underwater, which makes me sad. I was planning to make a submarine that had to routinely resurface to refill its batteries. Also, are there any deployable and retractable panels which work with the current version? I can find panels that work with krez\'s mod but not EPS.

[FriedMunCake]

What does this mean 'Dead ships can be reclaimed'?

Great Mod By the way.

[Joshua21B]

That a ship that had everyone on board die due to lack of oxygen can be boarded by an EVA Kerbal and flown.

[SzaboMarton_D]

Hi here...

i have some issues-more dislikes about your recent changes...

the mod works great as it\'s intended...(i just have a bug where somtimes i can\'t see my kerbals might be mechjeb screwing) but anyway...first and foremost when i attach the ZOXmain sys it goes down the bottom of the stageing...and altough i can rearrange whenever i change anything on my rocket it slips back DOWN to the bottom. and this is really annoying and just messes up the whole autostageorganisation of KSP...and this is really frustrating.

the next one is about EPS...man you choosed the wrong plugin to go for...and only your mod uses it thus far...if you\'ve shearched around you can find 'Electrical energy plugin' HERE

which does better job than EPS because it lets the user/modder the opportunity to KEEP THE MODULE AS IT IS. because you only have to put that small code at the end of the config and so you can also use powertech or any kind of part with any kind of module to produce-consume energy...which makes it easily moddable and expandable!

so for example i like how powertech plugin unfolds the kosmos panels...and so i could mod these to produce energy via EEP and then use the filter to make ZOX...yet it\'s not updated...and you went over a new system of consumption

and so i can modify the kosmos pack parts but then they don\'t unfold because i changed the module section...they just produce energy unfolded

so i would like to have your zox mod be a lil more expandable and allow specific modules to be used with only inserting a scrip or something in the cfg...lik in EEP

[Kreuzung]

EPS is a good idea, but it has some flaws:

1) It wastes a lot of energy due to the way it\'s coded

2) It stores them in special parts instead of part resources (without the third point, this whouldn\'t be a real problem though)

3) It doesn\'t allow for part modules

I could still implement EPS, but I don\'t know if it\'s worth it, because I\'d have to break part configs/save files again, which I don\'t want to do anymore.

[FriedMunCake]

That a ship that had everyone on board die due to lack of oxygen can be boarded by an EVA Kerbal and flown.

But there is no Zoxygene?

[CrashnBurn]

Hi here...

i have some issues-more dislikes about your recent changes...

the mod works great as it\'s intended...(i just have a bug where somtimes i can\'t see my kerbals might be mechjeb screwing) but anyway...first and foremost when i attach the ZOXmain sys it goes down the bottom of the stageing...and altough i can rearrange whenever i change anything on my rocket it slips back DOWN to the bottom. and this is really annoying and just messes up the whole autostageorganisation of KSP...and this is really frustrating.

the next one is about EPS...man you choosed the wrong plugin to go for...and only your mod uses it thus far...if you\'ve shearched around you can find 'Electrical energy plugin' HERE

which does better job than EPS because it lets the user/modder the opportunity to KEEP THE MODULE AS IT IS. because you only have to put that small code at the end of the config and so you can also use powertech or any kind of part with any kind of module to produce-consume energy...which makes it easily moddable and expandable!

so for example i like how powertech plugin unfolds the kosmos panels...and so i could mod these to produce energy via EEP and then use the filter to make ZOX...yet it\'s not updated...and you went over a new system of consumption

and so i can modify the kosmos pack parts but then they don\'t unfold because i changed the module section...they just produce energy unfolded

so i would like to have your zox mod be a lil more expandable and allow specific modules to be used with only inserting a scrip or something in the cfg...lik in EEP

I agree, I stopped using this Plugin when it switched to EPS, because it doesn\'t play nice with the other energy mods, now. Seeing that coders like Kreuzung aren\'t happy with the way EPS is implemented, I suspect means EPS is not going to receive much support. I think the concept of a standardized Energy plugin is great, but if coders are going to ignore it because it doesn\'t support things like parts modules, then the project is dead before it\'s even gotten started. The fact that it\'s not end-user tweakable, is the final nail in the coffin.

For me EPS killed Zoxygene. It\'s too much of a hassle now.

This isn\'t meant to be a personal attack or to be critical of anyone, I\'m just telling it like I see it, and explaining why I stopped using Zoxygene. Thanks to everyone who is putting such hard work into these mods.

[Kreuzung]

Don\'t worry about EPS, I\'ve already contacted l00 about it, these problems will be solved.

[CrashnBurn]

Don\'t worry about EPS, I\'ve already contacted l00 about it, these problems will be solved.

Cool 8)

[SzaboMarton_D]

okay...till that the kerbals probably have to hold their breaths now that makes them blue!

[leonredbone]

I am having some issues due to my n00bness. :-[ I cannot seem to get any solar panels to charge EPS batteries for the zoxy system to recharge. The only panels that work are the stock, non movable EPS panels. I\'m not sure which thread to post this in since I don\'t understand how these plugins work together. The zoxy system draws power from the battery until it runs dry, then it start running out itself. I want to be able to recharge the batteries with some other deployable panels, is this not possible?

I\'ve tried installing PowerTech and EPS along with the souyez panels for example and they will not work together.

Hope this makes sense.

[Kreuzung]

That\'s broken at the time, we need to wait for a new EPS version.

[Alchemist]

For the animated ZO2 panel to work with EPS use this part.cfg

// Kerbal Space Program - Part Config
// ZO2/EPS Solar Panel PowerTech Edition
// 


// --- general parameters ---
name = ZO2PowertechSolarpanel
module = EPS_SOURCE_Spanel_PowerTech
author = l00 || Alchemist

// --- asset parameters ---
mesh = ZO2pwr.DAE
scale = 0.1
texture = ZO2pwr_tex.png
specPower = 0.1
rimFalloff = 3
alphaCutoff = 0.0

// --- editor parameters ---
cost = 500
category = 3
subcategory = 0
title = EPS Powertech Solar panel
manufacturer = Green Power for Home and Camping Inc.|| PowerTech
description = A very fragile Solar Panel for powering systems that need Electricity, and to charge Batteries... Upgraded by PowerTech, the deployable panel will automatically turn itself to the Sun. 
// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1

// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z
node_attach = 17.32, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0


// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 0.175
dragModelType = override
maximum_drag = 10.0
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 5
crashTolerance = 3
maxTemp = 3400
explosionPotential = 0.1
breakingForce = 1
breakingTorque = 3

// --- EPS Panel ---

MaxPwrGain = 0.018

MaxOverload = 1.5
panelInitRot = 0.5



doubleSidedPanels = true
NightGlide = true
RotatingPanels = true


// --- PowerTech animation ---
movingParts=2 

mPartNumber=0
animName = Segment1
animrange1 = 90
animaxis1 = 0, 0, -1
animaxis2 = 1, 0, 0    

mPartNumber=1
animName =Segment2
animrange1 = 180
animaxis1 = 0, 1, 0
animParent = 0

[s20dan]

So does this work with 0.16? I get a weird bug when any ship I build with ZO2 components tries to launch, focus is swapped from the ship to Kerbin/Earth (Whatever its called) and I cannot swap focus back to the ship.

because you only have to put that small code at the end of the config and so you can also use powertech or any kind of part with any kind of module to produce-consume energy...which makes it easily moddable and expandable!

+100

[Olsson]

For the animated ZO2 panel to work with EPS use this part.cfg

Thanks! Now if I want to use one of the Kosmos Solar Panels like the Short one with the unfold animation what am I supposed to write in there? I used to script you gave but I can't place it close to the craft instead it seems to be placed the lenght of the solar panel away from the craft and the animation for deploying it won't work. Should I ask in the Kosmos thread instead or do you know a fix?

[SzaboMarton_D]

okay cool you're working on making the system work...yet next release please fix the stageing thingy for the ZOX main sys and tank...

[Olsson]

What language is this and other plugins written in for KSP?

[Kreuzung]

C#, see this section.