Tech Tree Dilemma

[Pingonaut]

For most of my KSP life I've done only sandbox mode. However, recently I've been wanting to do career mode. The problem is I really dislike the stock tech tree, and the modded ones that are available aren't that great.

I want to start with rovers, driving around to science collection locations, then to planes, and then to rockets. I don't want to start with rovers, and then get "cars" and planes. Sure, I could just research the whole tech tree, but then I'd have no incentive to gather science or a goal to work toward.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[CaptainKipard]

I've been slowly trying to gather people and come to a consensus on a community project that overhauls the tech-tree into something more realistic and intuitive, but so far the experience has been similar to trying to herd cats. There are two trees that I'm aware of that come close but they are single-person projects at the moment.

Mod-Oriented Tech Tree

Engineering Based Tech Tree - This one seems the most rational to me.

They're both a bit messy right now.

[Pingonaut]

I've been slowly trying to gather people and come to a consensus on a community project that overhauls the tech-tree into something more realistic and intuitive, but so far the experience has been similar to trying to herd cats. There are two trees that I'm aware of that come close but they are single-person projects at the moment.

Mod-Oriented Tech Tree

Engineering Based Tech Tree - This one seems the most rational to me.

They're both a bit messy right now.

That "Engineering Based Tech Tree" looks very good! I'll try it out.

edit: Doesn't seem to be updated, I'm guessing it won't be compatible with new parts and mods.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Pingonaut

[CaptainKipard]

Doesn't seem to be updated, I'm guessing it won't be compatible with new parts and mods.

And there's the crux of it. If more people don't get on board with a tree overhaul, those trees will rot.

Honestly nothing in KSP makes me madder than the stock tree.It makes no sense.

[Nazari1382]

Try mine, I'm open to suggestions about its balance:

http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/225168-traditional-tech-unchained

[Pingonaut]

Try mine, I'm open to suggestions about its balance:

http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/225168-traditional-tech-unchained

Thanks! I'll try it out.

[PB666]

For most of my KSP life I've done only sandbox mode. However, recently I've been wanting to do career mode. The problem is I really dislike the stock tech tree, and the modded ones that are available aren't that great.

I want to start with rovers, driving around to science collection locations, then to planes, and then to rockets. I don't want to start with rovers, and then get "cars" and planes. Sure, I could just research the whole tech tree, but then I'd have no incentive to gather science or a goal to work toward.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I think it would be nice to have a simple wheel at level 4. You dont need to start with wheels, lots of free career sci in the two launch 'biomes'. Technically you should not seek to build a KSC cart until you have the materials science, Mat Sci and goo are half the KSC sci value (excluding grav sci. and atm).

If you want to play by the rules, note that two to four capsules stacked and turned sideways role with a bit of trickery.

I took the simplist wheel, rescaled it and use half-factor wheel and modular girder segment to build a car that has at its center a capsule module. The biggest problem surveying KSC is electrical power, not wheels. I modded a fuel fired generator stackable to burn monoprop and then used the 10U on the capsule. What you want is to put some sort of cylinder over each of 4 wheels because some of the KSC targets will not deliver unique (site specific) sci unless you push right up against them, or for kerbins, stand on top of them. In R&D the site specific sci is usually found on driveways that abutt buildings and doorways with large overhangs.

Also you need an antenna and to make use of crew reports you will need a pant-load of electrical power.

[Pingonaut]

I think it would be nice to have a simple wheel at level 4. You dont need to start with wheels, lots of free career sci in the two launch 'biomes'. Technically you should not seek to build a KSC cart until you have the materials science, Mat Sci and goo are half the KSC sci value (excluding grav sci. and atm).

If you want to play by the rules, note that two to four capsules stacked and turned sideways role with a bit of trickery.

I took the simplist wheel, rescaled it and use half-factor wheel and modular girder segment to build a car that has at its center a capsule module. The biggest problem surveying KSC is electrical power, not wheels. I modded a fuel fired generator stackable to burn monoprop and then used the 10U on the capsule. What you want is to put some sort of cylinder over each of 4 wheels because some of the KSC targets will not deliver unique (site specific) sci unless you push right up against them, or for kerbins, stand on top of them. In R&D the site specific sci is usually found on driveways that abutt buildings and doorways with large overhangs.

Also you need an antenna and to make use of crew reports you will need a pant-load of electrical power.

That's not exactly what I had in mind. I don't want to build crappy cars made of capsules, but actual cars to gather science with, then building planes and then rockets. I cannot find an updated tech tree to do this with.

[ESteve]

I think there are a few things holding the tech tree back.

1) Science is currency. Step 1, connect science data. Step 2, new part! Haha, NASA wishes.

2) The progression of the tech tree doesn't apply enough pressure to convince players to make due with what is available.

3) Some critical parts don't show up early enough. Solar, batteries, docking, ilghts etc. Without these parts you can't really do anything. This encourages people to spam science points, so that they leap through most of the tree.

Here's a couple initial ideas:

*Parts are not simply purchased with a pile of excel charts: To obtain new parts you must first research the tech level. You can choose the type of research, but there is no information what parts it may make available. Research requires science data, money, and time. The exact amounts are random, so tech levels will be reached at unknown rates. You have to keep dumping in resources until there is a breakthrough. After the tech level is unlocked the parts have to be engineered, this requires more money, time, and a prototype (derated) version may need to be tested in various environments.

*Multiple progression trees: Several trees would be available and each designed to emphasize a certain tech progression. Examples are perhaps planes, small rockets, large rockets, Ion, nuke, rover, manned, unmanned. And for the insane, there could be randomly generated trees (with some rules of course). This could make different saves unique.

Anyway, I think that's what it would take to get players to make do with the parts available instead of spamming easy science points until they have the parts they want.

[CaptainKipard]

*Parts are not simply purchased with a pile of excel charts: To obtain new parts you must first research the tech level. You can choose the type of research, but there is no information what parts it may make available. Research requires science data, money, and time. The exact amounts are random, so tech levels will be reached at unknown rates. You have to keep dumping in resources until there is a breakthrough. After the tech level is unlocked the parts have to be engineered, this requires more money, time, and a prototype (derated) version may need to be tested in various environments

This would require a plugin.

Apart from that all the ideas here can be made with a new tree, but there has to be some more interest in it.

[Alshain]

Yeah, stock tech tree irritates me to no end.

First. Discover Rocketry

Second. Discover Flight

Finally. Invent the wheel!

I just keep telling myself that balance is always the last step of a project like this.

[CaptainKipard]

I like this idea posted by @WhiteWeasel. It would let people choose whatever they want first.

[Pingonaut]

I like this idea posted by @WhiteWeasel. It would let people choose whatever they want first.

I very much liked the one that allowed you to choose if you wanted to do rovers before rockets, is there a way to get an updated version of that?

[CaptainKipard]

I don't know, but if you'd like to see something like that in stock come join the discussion here.

[Pingonaut]

I don't know, but if you'd like to see something like that in stock come join the discussion here.

Will do. Would a non-modder have trouble creating their own tech tree (me)?

[CaptainKipard]

I don't know what you mean by "non-modder", but creating the tree is the least of your problems. You'd need to make sure that mods and stock parts all fit where you want them to fit, and this is the biggest problem tree makers have had so far. The KSP techtree system just wasn't built with mods in mind.