[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[Guest]

Not really a good idea, I think. At least the Vulcains look different.

[eggrobin]

Couldn't we have some of them (such as the Vikings) as variants of one model? Real Fuels allows for this option, and we already make use of it. (trying to keep the memory load reasonable)

Well, Viking 5C and 4B+ look very different, since one is a first-stage engine and the other is an upper-stage engine.

Viking 6 is visually similar to Viking 5C (since it's an LRB engine), and it's less relevant (for the same reason), so there is no need for a separate model for it.

Edited November 25, 2014 by eggrobin

[AlmightyR]

Couldn't we have some of them (such as the Vikings) as variants of one model? Real Fuels allows for this option, and we already make use of it. (trying to keep the memory load reasonable)

I agree...Some engines don't really have enough differences between them to justify the creation and/or use of individual 3D models...

[eggrobin]

I agree...Some engines don't really have enough differences between them to justify the creation and/or use of individual 3D models...

Absolutely. The name isn't a very good criterion though, since the naming convention at the time seems to have been "let's call everything Viking".

[Hattivat]

Ok, so it seems we have a reasonable compromise here: One model for Viking 5C and Viking 6, and another for Viking 4B+. I'd support that.

[smartdummies]

Hi guys I am new to Realism Overhaul and I have a question maybe a stupid one . So I am building my first rocket and I can't hide my engines , it's a small detail but it irritates me ! Here some images : https://i.imgur.com/utcWKsw.png https://i.imgur.com/jfJBeQX.png Is there a solution ?

It looks like you are talking about the fairings not being added around the engine. The best solution is to use Procedural Fairings to create your interstage fairings. Note that the KW interstage adapters do not work in RO due to the size differences of the engines and the removal of the second top node that KW needs.

[Hattivat]

Hi guys I am new to Realism Overhaul and I have a question maybe a stupid one . So I am building my first rocket and I can't hide my engines , it's a small detail but it irritates me ! Here some images : Is there a solution ?

It's not stupid at all, in fact it's one of the usual problems people have. It took me some time to figure it out too when I first installed Realism Overhaul. In fact, I've just created a guide intended exactly to make the first few hours of gameplay less confusing for people like you, who are just starting their RO adventure. Here, take a look: http://imgur.com/a/zWFvd

In case of a single engine, you want to put a decoupler between your engine and the interstage base, because you have no way of creating that gap you can see in the guide. Otherwise, it's similar. Happy flying!

Edited November 25, 2014 by Hattivat

[AlmightyR]

It's not stupid at all, in fact it's one of the usual problems people have. It took me some time to figure it out too when I first installed Realism Overhaul. In fact, I've just created a guide intended exactly to make the first few hours of gameplay less confusing for people like you, who are just starting their RO adventure. Here, take a look: http://imgur.com/a/zWFvd

In case of a single engine, you want to put a decoupler between your engine and the interstage base, because you have no way of creating that gap you can see in the guide. Otherwise, it's similar. Happy flying!

And for people who find it annoying to have the fairing bases separate from decouplers, feel free to use another one of my MM patches:

@PART[KzResizableFairingBase]:NEEDS[ProceduralFairings]:Final
{
	//Adds an attachment node inside the structural gap for a parachute (or whatever else).
	%node_stack_chute = 0.0, 0.2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

	//Adds a decoupler to the top node.
	%MODULE[ModuleDecouple]
	{
		%name = ModuleDecouple
		%ejectionForce = 250
		%explosiveNodeID = top
	}
}

+PART[KzResizableFairingBase]:NEEDS[ProceduralFairings]:Final
{
	%name = KzResizableFairingBase_Adapter
	%title = Interstage Fairing Extended Adapter
	%description = Enables side fairings to hold the part at the top, and has an extended structure that allows it to hold internal equipment, like a stage-recovery chute.

	//Adds an attachment node inside the structural gap for a parachute (or whatever else).
	%node_stack_chute = 0.0, 0.2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

	//Adds a procedural adapter.
	%MODULE[ProceduralFairingAdapter]
	{
		%name = ProceduralFairingAdapter
		%baseSize=1.25
		%topSize =1.25
		%height=2
		%costPerTonne=1000
		%specificMass=0.0064, 0.0130, 0.0098, 0
		%specificBreakingForce =6050
		%specificBreakingTorque=6050
	}

	//Adds a decoupler to the top node.
	%MODULE[ModuleDecouple]
	{
		%name = ModuleDecouple
		%ejectionForce = 250
		%explosiveNodeID = top
	}
}

@PART[KzInterstageAdapter2]:NEEDS[ProceduralFairings]:Final
{
	%MODULE[ModuleDecouple]
	{
		%name = ModuleDecouple
		%ejectionForce = 250
		//Change decoupler to the top node instead of top1.
		%explosiveNodeID = top
	}
}

It basically adds a decoupler to the framed fairing-base, changes the interstage fairing base to have it's decoupler on top of the visual part rather than "on top" of the fairings, and, since I have always liked the concept of using the internal area of the frames as a place for nose or stack parachutes for recovering stages, I also add an "interstage version" of the framed fairing base...

If you want to keep the originals as they are, and want the changes in separate copies of the parts, you can ask me or go to the ModuleManager thread and read the guide on how to make these kind of changes...

[Scarsz]

It really depends what level of detail the modeller aims for...I'll try to make em with baked normal-maps, which require a high-res model...But doing em all low-res seems doable within a month or a couple... I've only worked on it for about 15 minutes, but here is a look at the Vulcain 2's progress: http://i.imgur.com/bpfWHFOl.png Of course, this has a lot of poly waste (specially on the nozzle), because I'm making the base-mesh for a high-poly, which I can use to bake normals so that the low-poly can "fake" a lot of the minor details...So don't take it as a lead to the final product...It isn't... I'm working on the Aestus and Vulcan 2...If you want to start with another one, I have no doubts you will be welcome!

Looking good!

I started modeling the CECE. I love the nozzle, but It does mean the high poly is very high poly! If anyone has any plan views or technical drawings of this engine it would be much appreciated. You don't have to use it if you don't want.

[samroberts]

Having trouble with my RO install. It crashes towards the end of loading. This only began happening after installing Real Effects and Real Visual Enhancements. It could be RAM crash though. Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2jjshw1tkuuzni/Player2.log?dl=0

[Bender222]

When i try to use ckan to install half of the time it stops responding at "installing Ferram Aerospace Research" and does not isnstall any mods.Although sometimes it has worked and I dont know why.

[Hattivat]

Having trouble with my RO install. It crashes towards the end of loading. This only began happening after installing Real Effects and Real Visual Enhancements. It could be RAM crash though. Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2jjshw1tkuuzni/Player2.log?dl=0

RVE isn't very stable yet, I'd recommend you to stick to regular Environmental Visual Enhancements (yes, it does work with RSS, not as well as RVE, but well enough) from here: https://github.com/rbray89/EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements/tree/Overhaul

You want the x86-release.zip, which you can download, here's the direct download link: https://github.com/rbray89/EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements/raw/Overhaul/x86-Release.zip

If you decide to stick to RVE, or if regular EVE also makes your game crash consider running the game in -force-opengl mode (as described here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84203-Less-memory-usage-by-using-OpenGL ), installing the Active Texture Manager mod and/or Texture Replacer mod, or lowering the texture resolution in graphics settings to 1/2.

[Felger]

Please don't...

Remember that "ugly duckling and drunker peasant" analogy I used? Well, Shifting the nodes down so that the "caps" are hidden up makes the ugly duckling uglier, and the drunken peasant drunker...

Got it, no ugly ducklings. But what if I've had a long day and want a beer? Surely I'm allowed at least one drunk peasant...

Great! I will start working on those then, if @Felger has no objections...

AWESOME. I have as few objections as are physically possible to have. Zero Point Objection. If your initial pictures are anything to go off of, I will have negative objections by the time you're done! And I'm not even sure that's a meaningful sentence!

I'd just say however might be worth including some form of massive disclaimer for RVE in its current state, I've noticed allot of people having issues with the current releases. Thanks for the rep tho! I should have a much better release up in the near future

Good point, I'll add that to the OP, and for those who aren't aware, there's a WIP new version of EVE available (Remember, WIP means buggy. NO COMPLAINING!) and it looks fantastic!

That's great, I'm sure you would be a useful addition to the team! I can read Russian, but not very well, and I don't have a Russian keyboard, which makes typing hard. Feel free to join the #RO IRC channel as described in the OP of this thread (the same applies to AlmigthyR and anyone else who wants to help, of course!)

As for the guide, it's short on purpose, to make sure that even those people who have short attention spans can get to the end of it. There will be other, more in-depth guides in the future. There is already a lot of info in a text-only form on the RO wiki.

To add to this, my hope is to get some awesome guides on there by people who've been playing Realism Overhaul for a while, to help people out who haven't. If you'd like to contribute, the Wiki is open to editing by anyone, just send me a PM and I'll make a page for you!

AlmightyR, if you want/need any help modeling or texturing I am happy to help. That is quite a long list and to make all of them on your own is quite a lot as engines are some of the most complicated models for ksp.

Heck yes! More models is awesome!

Vulcain 2's progress:

http://i.imgur.com/bpfWHFOl.png

Freakin' sweet! Looking forward to it!

Hi guys I am new to Realism Overhaul and I have a question maybe a stupid one . So I am building my first rocket and I can't hide my engines , it's a small detail but it irritates me ! Here some images : https://i.imgur.com/utcWKsw.png https://i.imgur.com/jfJBeQX.png Is there a solution ?

Definitely not a stupid question, see Hattivat's response for more details, but check out the Procedural Interstage, it'll help out a lot.

And for people who find it annoying to have the fairing bases separate from decouplers, feel free to use another one of my MM patches:

{Module Manager Config for Procedural Fairings}

I'm pretty tempted to yoink that and make it part of Realism Overhaul. Mind if I include it?

Looking good!

I started modeling the CECE. I love the nozzle, but It does mean the high poly is very high poly! If anyone has any plan views or technical drawings of this engine it would be much appreciated. You don't have to use it if you don't want.

http://puu.sh/d5qHA/789343de40.png

Mmmm, that's purty. Make sure you ping Dragon01 and let him know you're making more work for him configuring all these engines for RealEffects!

Having trouble with my RO install. It crashes towards the end of loading. This only began happening after installing Real Effects and Real Visual Enhancements. It could be RAM crash though. Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2jjshw1tkuuzni/Player2.log?dl=0

Yeah, it looks like you ran out of RAM. There's a couple things to try in the meantime, check out the OP under 'other recommendations' for some starting points.

When i try to use ckan to install half of the time it stops responding at "installing Ferram Aerospace Research" and does not isnstall any mods.Although sometimes it has worked and I dont know why.

Oh, I had this issue in testing. FAR installs some example planes to the 'ships' folder, and CKAN refuses to overwrite pre-existing files no matter how nicely you ask, or how much you threaten to beat it with a stick. Try deleting the ships in /KSP/ships/SPH and see if that fixes it. You can check against the FAR download zipped folders (They'll be in the KSP/CKAN directory).

[NathanKell]

Those engines look awesome!

Also, yes it's great to have decouplers in the fairing rings, though I don't recommend it for the interstage. The decoupler on the interstage works (with KJR installed), and the stuff one attaches to the non-floating upper node (i.e. the middle node) of the interstage should *not* detach, since that's where one puts avionics, batteries, retros, and the like. Further, one can always attach the floating node instead, there's no harm in it, and just use "extra height" as necessary to cover up what you attach to.

Also, just a quick note: (Upper) stage bottoms are generally *not* very clean, and the engine doesn't usually blend cleanly. Here's the DCSS. Also, the conical/rounded thing you see on, say, Centaur or S-IVB is not an adaptor between engine and fuel tank; it is the fuel tank, or rather the bottom dome of the capsule-shaped fuel tank. Check out the cutaway linked above for Saturn V.

Here is a pic showing pretty much all upper stages in common use. As you can see, in all cases there are domes on the bottom, or conical protrusions, they are in fact just the bottom end of the tank. In the case of Transtage, where the tanks extend down quite far, the engines are just mounted to the stage structure with a thrust frame.

[Bender222]

Oh, I had this issue in testing. FAR installs some example planes to the 'ships' folder, and CKAN refuses to overwrite pre-existing files no matter how nicely you ask, or how much you threaten to beat it with a stick. Try deleting the ships in /KSP/ships/SPH and see if that fixes it. You can check against the FAR download zipped folders (They'll be in the KSP/CKAN directory).

[Felger]

Whoa, just whoa. so simple. I did not even think to heck. It might be nice to have a configureable textures for RSS on ckan( say for instance earth/moon are 8k yet all the others are 2 or 4). Along with the ability to switch out the packs without it uninstalling everything. EVE and RVE are also noticeably absent. Anyway though, thanks a lot you just saved me a lot of trouble. The addon is coming along nicely. Is there some simple workaround to the fasa crafts loading invisible?

On EVE and RVE, they're still in a WIP place, so it's understandable that the authors have opted not to offer a download through CKAN.

I haven't heard of FASA crafts loading invisible, what's that about?

[AlmightyR]

Also, yes it's great to have decouplers in the fairing rings, though I don't recommend it for the interstage. The decoupler on the interstage works (with KJR installed), and the stuff one attaches to the non-floating upper node (i.e. the middle node) of the interstage should *not* detach, since that's where one puts avionics, batteries, retros, and the like. Further, one can always attach the floating node instead, there's no harm in it, and just use "extra height" as necessary to cover up what you attach to.

I just do it out of my own personal preference, using small "service areas" below the engine's interstage adaptors, instead of above them...Just wanted to share the config in case I'm not the only one wish such weird tastes.

Also, just a quick note: (Upper) stage bottoms are generally *not* very clean, and the engine doesn't usually blend cleanly. Here's the DCSS.

That transition looks quite "clean" to me...KSP's (RO's) aesthetic problems arise from the "adapters" on top of the engines meeting the flat underside of the FT's in a manner that "jumps" from one to the other, in a very "unnatural" look-&-feel...

Also, the conical/rounded thing you see on, say, Centaur or S-IVB is not an adaptor between engine and fuel tank; it is the fuel tank, or rather the bottom dome of the capsule-shaped fuel tank. Check out the cutaway linked above for Saturn V.

Here is a pic showing pretty much all upper stages in common use. As you can see, in all cases there are domes on the bottom, or conical protrusions, they are in fact just the bottom end of the tank. In the case of Transtage, where the tanks extend down quite far, the engines are just mounted to the stage structure with a thrust frame.

I'm aware of that, and I had already posted a per-stage cut-out diagram showing that. However, FTs' 3D models for KSP/RO can't adapt the external cover, and so, either we can make the tanks the same size as their external covers, which leaves the "caps" (/"adapters") problems, for with we use the caps as separate parts; Or we make the external covers as separate parts, in which case we would need to completely change how KSP's FTs are built and handled.

However, making the caps as part of the engines results in the current problems...And making them separate will have it's own problems, like adding an extra part for each engine assembly ("engine + adapter + FT", instead of "engine + FT") which, for example, adds a small penalty on game performance.

Basically...All approaches has their goods and their bads...But for RO, I think the only solution that would be acceptable both aesthetically and for gameplay is separating the caps from the engines...

[NathanKell]

Oh, I wholeheartedly support tankbutt-less engines. In fact, pretty much any time someone posts an engine WIP I'm there to campaign against tankbutts. (Search the forum for "tankbutt" )

And as mentioned, I'm super enthused you're taking on some engine modeling! Couldn't be more so or I'd be in negative-objection-land like Felger.

For an example of what tankbuttless engines allows:

(A tank for ballast, a RO probe core, a proc fairing ring (4m), three proc tanks, four more bitty proc tanks in gold, an engine, an interstage.)

(NOTE: Full credit to ferram for this method of construction. )

Edited November 26, 2014 by NathanKell

[..wesker..]

Thanks it WORKED !!! Thanks guys, you are awesome !! Thanks for this wonderful mod !!!

[Kitspace]

A couple of questions regarding the automated install.

Does it ensure that the mods will have the latest patches?

Are those exactly the same versions and builds of all the mods that one would get from their respective threads manually?

Some mods have optional things that are in many cases not supposed to be installed with the pack but otherwise would be installed commonly.

What does it do with these sorts of things?

So generally is there any difference to the experience at all between a manual and an automatic copy?

Regarding the engine domes why not just enable part clipping and add a procedural cap that would fit to the tank an cover what we do not want to the same attachment node the engine sits on or the tank central node in case of a cluster? That is just exactly what I usually do if possible. If it adds to the fuel capacity that is good and if it is impossible for balance reasons I make it a structural part that is both light and does not affect the fuel flow. Also is it technically possible to edit the visual models already compiled for the game? I have a little experience with objects modelling in general and if the authors of the packs let us I could cut the offending parts of the engines as a temporary workaround.

Thank you!

[AlmightyR]

Oh, I wholeheartedly support tankbutt-less engines. In fact, pretty much any time someone posts an engine WIP I'm there to campaign against tankbutts. (Search the forum for "tankbutt" )

And as mentioned, I'm super enthused you're taking on some engine modeling! Couldn't be more so or I'd be in negative-objection-land like Felger.

For an example of what tankbuttless engines allows:

http://i.imgur.com/LEJtFOkl.jpg

(A tank for ballast, a RO probe core, a proc fairing ring (4m), three proc tanks, four more bitty proc tanks in gold, an engine, an interstage.)

(NOTE: Full credit to ferram for this method of construction. )

That is exactly what we want to get, and why we are (and will be for some time) working on (re-)making the engine models without the annoying "tankbutts" (lol...Didn't know that expression existed within KSP community...It describes it so perfectly! ).

RO looking like it should: Coming soon, in a launchpad near you!

On other news...

I'm also thinking about making a small java program to automatically clean-up the FTs that come with the "extra" mods...Don't know if it has already been done before...And it takes quite a while to map the dirs and files that need removing...

Edited November 26, 2014 by AlmightyR

[Hattivat]

I'm also thinking about making a small java program to automatically clean-up the FTs that come with the "extra" mods...Don't know if it has already been done before...And it takes quite a while to map the dirs and files that need removing...

IIRC Felger was describing a project of his that would do this on irc a few days ago. You should ask him about that, perhaps you could combine forces

[eggrobin]

More information on Viking engines bells (Vikas are Indian clones of Viking).

Note that in these drawings, only the bell is accurately represented (compare with photographs), but this should help with the dimensions.

[AlmightyR]

More information on Viking engines bells (Vikas are Indian clones of Viking).

Note that in these drawings, only the bell is accurately represented (compare with photographs), but this should help with the dimensions.

Nice! Tech-drawings and other orthographic projections help a LOT with modelling!

[eggrobin]

Nice! Tech-drawings and other orthographic projections help a LOT with modelling!

Vulcain 2:

This says that the bell is 2.32 m high (it also says there are 288 tiny cooling tubes in the upper part of the bell, but that's because it's from an incident report where that was relevant).

HM-7B:

This says the bell is 0.99 m in diameter, and that the whole engine is 2.01 m high.

Edited November 26, 2014 by eggrobin