[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[Goozeman]

Quick question: Is Tweakable Everything compatible with RO and/or DRE? I had some... issues when I tried to use it. Basically, it made everything explode on the pad due to (I think) aerodynamic heating. I don't want to dump data here if it's a known issue.

[Felger]

How about a Realism Overhaul config for The Atomic Rockets Guy's Orion (AKA Ol' Boom Boom) Nuclear Pulse Rocket mod? It still works in current versions, despite being essentially untouched for a while.

Absolutely! Go for it, we'll take the config if you've got it. (It'll probably require some finesse given the nature of the part it adds, but still, more parts the better!)

I have a bit of an issue with tweakscale. I cannot scale stock parts engines, wings, structural elements. I would have posted this one the page of the mod, but it seems to work fine on its own, so I assume it is conflicting with some other mod. I am sorry if this was already answered, but this is quite a popular mod and there are about 40 pages, sooo.. yeah.

Thank you in advance for any guidance.

What do you mean by 'cannot scale stock parts'? The scaling bar doesn't show up in-game, or it does show up, but you can't do anything with it?

I'll check in my install to see if there's anything funky, but for at least the engines that's expected behavior since they're locked in to specific sizes to represent real life engines.

Thanks, That cleared up some confusion. But, I am asking about deleting stock parts that is why I found the statement contradictory.

Now the question is can any of the stock parts be deleted without causing problems with the mods in RS?

Very nearly any part can be deleted, but you might experience some odd side effects, like texture-less parts that use stock textures, and the like. If you don't mind running stuff from the command line, and you don't want to wait for the GUI part-pruner, you can always use my klugey AutoPruner script, it has several lists built into it for pruning fuel tanks and fairings from various part packs. It's by no means perfect, but it won't screw anything up (probably)

Assembling a space station and noted a few bugs: First, undocking causes one of the craft to suddenly accelerate away for no reason (accelerating away without engine or other impulse). Second, using time warp when in proximity to another craft causes the other craft's position to jump a few hundred meters. It does not reset to the original position when you end time warp.

That is very strange, seems reminiscent of the old floating point bugs. It's probably not a problem with Realism Overhaul itself per se, but rather another mod that changes how the game handles dynamics. Perhaps Real Solar System, or OrbitManipulator (NBody)? Try submitting an output log on one of those threads and see if someone can help you.

[Hattivat]

Quick question: Is Tweakable Everything compatible with RO and/or DRE? I had some... issues when I tried to use it. Basically, it made everything explode on the pad due to (I think) aerodynamic heating. I don't want to dump data here if it's a known issue.

Tweakable Everything is known to cause issues overall. I've had some issues when I tried using it too, although not as extreme as yours.

[Beduino]

Yeah, just figured the payload was 3 times the mass of what it should be originally; that's why my MSL replica (at least in terms of numbers) didn't have enough delta v for a mars transfer.

Any good tips for aerobraking and landing on Mars? Like what PE altitude?

[Starwaster]

Quick question: Is Tweakable Everything compatible with RO and/or DRE? I had some... issues when I tried to use it. Basically, it made everything explode on the pad due to (I think) aerodynamic heating. I don't want to dump data here if it's a known issue.

You need to post logs (output_log.txt. player.log if mac/linux)

You're getting errors, either when the craft loads in or continuously spamming the log. Depending on where the error occurs it can have different strange results, including a craft gradually picking up heat that it can't shed.

[Beduino]

Yeah, just figured the payload was 3 times the mass of what it should be originally; that's why my MSL replica (at least in terms of numbers) didn't have enough delta v for a mars transfer.

Any good tips for aerobraking and landing on Mars? Like what PE altitude?

After a few calculations figured out that the real MSL orbital periapsis was like -3000 km below mars surface.

Feels like im going to crash land, those seven minutes

[thyriel]

How do i get enough electricity for a roundtrip to moon without high end parts ? (with TAC life support mod)

With the FASA Gemini Capsule i added 32 of the small solar panels around, but its not even close enough to get enough charge. I would need to add a procedural battery bigger then capsule itself for 10-12 days, which seems a bit strange.

[Hattivat]

Well, you could do it the way it was actually done, with fuel cells. Gemini service module should have one.

[thyriel]

Well, you could do it the way it was actually done, with fuel cells. Gemini service module should have one.

Thanks, i missed that converter somehow

[DerTroglodyt]

I tried RSS and RO for the first time today but I can't get it to work.

I installed clean via: ./ckan install RSSTexturesDDS8192 TACLS-Config-RealismOverhaul on a ubuntu/steam 64bit KSP.

No other mods / modifications.

All the mods get installed but on start of KSP it hangs at ProceduralPart/Parts/ZOtherMods/RFSRB/proceduralSRBRealFuels.

Simliar issue happens with parts containing SRBs when I install SovietEngines / KW / FASA.

Deleting all parts with SRBs and the RFSRB.cfg lets me start the game.

Everything else seems to work fine...

What am I missing/doing wrong?

EDIT:

Just that everyone has a good laugh:

"Clean install" does not mean removing ALL folders in GameData...

Adding back the Squad folder solved all problems... that's the second time this happens to me... *facepalm*

Edited December 9, 2014 by DerTroglodyt

[Phylan]

Hypothesis: Something is throwing exceptions in a bad spot and it's preventing parts from dissipating heat. So they keep taking in heat but not shedding it. Impossible to confirm or dispel this hypothesis due to a noticeable lack of output_log.txt file (or player.log file if Linux or Mac)

That sounds plausible. The game doesn't crash, though, the rocket just explodes. So I don't think it generates an output_log.txt, right?

[Starwaster]

That sounds plausible. The game doesn't crash, though, the rocket just explodes. So I don't think it generates an output_log.txt, right?

WRONG. The game always generates logs whether it crashed or not. Whether it throws exceptions or not.

Unless you disabled logging you have log files. Always. Click the link below for instructions on finding your log files

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

(obligatory to make people think that my CAPS above doesn't mean I am angry)

[Yaivenov]

Oddball question, but why do some hypergolic engines have limited restarts? Namely the Apollo SM engine and the LEM descent and ascent engines.

[Hattivat]

Because they were only designed (ie. guaranteed to work) for this number of restarts. They were partially ablative-cooled, and obviously nothing that is ablative-cooled can work indefinitely.

[Yaivenov]

Ah, didn't know about the ablative cooling for those engines.

[Phylan]

WRONG. The game always generates logs whether it crashed or not. Whether it throws exceptions or not.

Unless you disabled logging you have log files. Always. Click the link below for instructions on finding your log files

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92229-How-To-Get-Support-%28READ-FIRST%29

(obligatory to make people think that my CAPS above doesn't mean I am angry)

Ah! Found the operative one. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pmvqXqfluEaEZBR2NXYTR5aUE/view?usp=sharing

New to looking at these but it looks like the NullReferenceExceptions are the hang up. It looks like the spontaneous deletion of the launch stability enhancers is encompassed here as well.

[Starwaster]

Ah! Found the operative one. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pmvqXqfluEaEZBR2NXYTR5aUE/view?usp=sharing

New to looking at these but it looks like the NullReferenceExceptions are the hang up. It looks like the spontaneous deletion of the launch stability enhancers is encompassed here as well.

1. Create a new save game for this or backup your existing ones because these troubleshooting steps can cause loss of ships and lives.
   
2. Delete Orbit Manipulator, Real Solar System and Procedural Parts.
   
3. Reinstall them one at a time, starting KSP and loading into your game saves after each reinstallation and check to see if problem persists.
   
4. Post results
   

[Alpheratz]

I just noticed that signal delay is disabled for Realism Overhaul (EnableSignalDelay = False) in RemoteTech_Settings.cfg. Is there a reason why? My moon landing would have been much harder with 1s delay!

If I have a minute or two later today I'll try to manually change the config to see if signal delay is playable in RO.

Edit: it seems to be working just fine:

What was the reason for disabling signal delay with RemoteTech? Was it unstable?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Alpheratz

[Sethur]

Since I spent a few hours now trying to get this to work, I thought I'll try my luck with the forum:

I'm currently attempting to rebuilt the FASA Saturn V with all required and recommended RO mods installed, but the order of modules around the CSM is very much different from the stock FASA Saturn V and I can't seem to figure out how to do this.

In Stock KSP, the assembled LM is only (via a small decoupler) attached to the FairingPlateApollo375m, but this part does not exist in RO, instead you seem to need two parts, a Lunar Module Adapter Base and (below that) a Gemini 260" Payload Fairing (or similar). The problem is that there never seem to be enough nodes to attach everything correctly without the LM clipping into the CSM engine on top of it.

Could somebody tell me the correct order of parts here? Or even better, point me to a finished craft file working in RO?

[frisch]

Is anyone else having difficulty with struts in RO? I have the recommended mods, FASA and AIES. The struts (normal, medium and heavy) don't seem to provide any stiffness,they just stretch). The particular place I've seen this is trying to launch a good sized (100T) interplanetary spaceship in a procedural fairing, or procedural interstate adapter. The payload just flops around no matter how many struts are added. (my mechanical analysis is good enough that I know the payload position is fully constrained, and when I launch with a fairing removed I can see the struts simply stretch a silly amount. F3 doesn't show anything breaking.

Needless to say RO as awesome, thanks to everyone who has worked on it. CKAN is really nice for installs as well.

[Alpheratz]

I'd like to bring up something else about RO + RemoteTech. The signal delay between the Moon and Earth is 1.33s as shown three posts earlier. The thing is, mission operators are at KSC and can only see what's happened once the signal has come back. Therefore, should we double signal delay?

[Hattivat]

Is anyone else having difficulty with struts in RO? I have the recommended mods, FASA and AIES. The struts (normal, medium and heavy) don't seem to provide any stiffness,they just stretch). The particular place I've seen this is trying to launch a good sized (100T) interplanetary spaceship in a procedural fairing, or procedural interstate adapter. The payload just flops around no matter how many struts are added. (my mechanical analysis is good enough that I know the payload position is fully constrained, and when I launch with a fairing removed I can see the struts simply stretch a silly amount. F3 doesn't show anything breaking.

Needless to say RO as awesome, thanks to everyone who has worked on it. CKAN is really nice for installs as well.

I don't have a solution for struts, but I do have a solution for the fairing. If your payload allows this, do the following:

1. Remove the fairing walls

2. Add a decoupler/separator on top of your payload

3. Take another fairing base, flip it 180 degrees

4. Attach that on top of your payload, adjust its size as low as it makes sense

5. Attach fairing walls to the bottom fairing base. They should now extend only to that other fairing base on top, BUT they are now serving as a structural support.

6. Use some nosecone (preferably procedural one) to close the gap on top.

7. Et voila.

This should at the very least make wobble tolerable, usually it's enough to kill it more or less completely.

[Yaivenov]

Repost from the other RSS/RO thread:

Unsure about the protocol for this sort of suggestion, but the guy who did the GPS mod has basically put it out there to be picked up and integrated into other mods. I've been playing with it in RSS/RO and it seemed like it'd be a good fit.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24646-0-25-Figaro-Global-Navigation-Satellite-System-Launch-a-Working-GPS-System

[frisch]

Excellent suggestion, thanks. It didn't occur to me that the fairing walls would attach to another fairing base.

I'll see if it works tonight.

I don't have a solution for struts, but I do have a solution for the fairing. If your payload allows this, do the following:

1. Remove the fairing walls

2. Add a decoupler/separator on top of your payload

3. Take another fairing base, flip it 180 degrees

4. Attach that on top of your payload, adjust its size as low as it makes sense

5. Attach fairing walls to the bottom fairing base. They should now extend only to that other fairing base on top, BUT they are now serving as a structural support.

6. Use some nosecone (preferably procedural one) to close the gap on top.

7. Et voila.

This should at the very least make wobble tolerable, usually it's enough to kill it more or less completely.

[Felger]

I just noticed that signal delay is disabled for Realism Overhaul (EnableSignalDelay = False) in RemoteTech_Settings.cfg. Is there a reason why? My moon landing would have been much harder with 1s delay!

If I have a minute or two later today I'll try to manually change the config to see if signal delay is playable in RO.

Edit: it seems to be working just fine:

http://i.imgur.com/5InRtMg.jpg

What was the reason for disabling signal delay with RemoteTech? Was it unstable?

Not really sure why it's disabled, best I can tell it's been disabled for quite some time. For anyone wanting to enable signal delay go to GameData/RemoteTech/RemoteTech_Settings.cfg and change line 6 to read:

EnableSignalDelay = True

Since I spent a few hours now trying to get this to work, I thought I'll try my luck with the forum:

I'm currently attempting to rebuilt the FASA Saturn V with all required and recommended RO mods installed, but the order of modules around the CSM is very much different from the stock FASA Saturn V and I can't seem to figure out how to do this.

In Stock KSP, the assembled LM is only (via a small decoupler) attached to the FairingPlateApollo375m, but this part does not exist in RO, instead you seem to need two parts, a Lunar Module Adapter Base and (below that) a Gemini 260" Payload Fairing (or similar). The problem is that there never seem to be enough nodes to attach everything correctly without the LM clipping into the CSM engine on top of it.

Could somebody tell me the correct order of parts here? Or even better, point me to a finished craft file working in RO?

No idea, the FASA configs were created by RedAV8R. However, it would seem that your problem would be very easily solved with some Procedural Fairings / Parts. Not an ideal solution, but a solution nonetheless.

Is anyone else having difficulty with struts in RO? I have the recommended mods, FASA and AIES. The struts (normal, medium and heavy) don't seem to provide any stiffness,they just stretch). The particular place I've seen this is trying to launch a good sized (100T) interplanetary spaceship in a procedural fairing, or procedural interstate adapter. The payload just flops around no matter how many struts are added. (my mechanical analysis is good enough that I know the payload position is fully constrained, and when I launch with a fairing removed I can see the struts simply stretch a silly amount. F3 doesn't show anything breaking.

Needless to say RO as awesome, thanks to everyone who has worked on it. CKAN is really nice for installs as well.

As I understand it, the struts problem is a problem with KSP. A few versions ago struts were 100% solid, and when they futzed with the joint strength / joint code, struts lost their perfect strength. So it's not just you.

If you're suffering from uncontrollably wobbly rockets, there's a solution for that (and eventually MechJeb will be updating its controller to work around it) Have a look at

I'd like to bring up something else about RO + RemoteTech. The signal delay between the Moon and Earth is 1.33s as shown three posts earlier. The thing is, mission operators are at KSC and can only see what's happened once the signal has come back. Therefore, should we double signal delay?

Nope, because the telemetered time we receive from the spacecraft will be from 1.33s ago, so if the mission clock is based on the telemetry received from the vehicle, 1.33s is the only delay you'd have. Now if you compared the mission clock to a mission control clock, yes there'd be an additional 1.33s difference

Repost from the other RSS/RO thread:

Unsure about the protocol for this sort of suggestion, but the guy who did the GPS mod has basically put it out there to be picked up and integrated into other mods. I've been playing with it in RSS/RO and it seemed like it'd be a good fit.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24646-0-25-Figaro-Global-Navigation-Satellite-System-Launch-a-Working-GPS-System

That looks nifty. If you want to make a config file for it, go for it! We'll add it to the suggested mods.