[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[Rothank]

I just noticed a bug. I installed the last updates of RO, RP-0, .. and now i can't change the tank type of my procedural tanks anymore. It is always default and won't switch. Can someone help me?

Don't use the arrows to switch tank types, use the slider in tweakable menu. The "bug" you're talking about is in fact a feature: baloon and cryo tanks are locked on early tech, but if you use arrows in the tweak menu (your usual right-click) game tries to swith to baloon tank, which results in this bug. You have to deal with it until you unlock better tech

[jsimmons]

Has anyone add support to RO for NRAP test weights?

[Rothank]

Has anyone add support to RO for NRAP test weights?

No real need to, u can simply use procedural tank with a lead ballast.

[Ocrock]

Found a nasty bug with jet enginess/radial decouplers/RemoteTech.

Case 1:

Jet plane with J79 engine, flies like a charm.

Case 2:

Same plane, but with added expendable aerobee boosters under wings (via radial decouplers). Upon starting the jet (either via staging or right-click menu) RemoteTech throws "No Connection" error, input gets locked.

Case 3:

Same plane again, ONLY radial decouplers under wings (with nothing strapped to them). Starting the jet causes RT to lose connection.

Checked multiple times with various decouplers, same happens. In KCT simulation mode this can be worked around via KCT "disable remotetech" option.

What cockpit are you using when doing these tests? Also, are you adding any avionics to the aerobee boosters? Lastly, what type of batteries are you using? Just the cockpit power, or additional batteries?

[CaptainSprite]

Don't use the arrows to switch tank types, use the slider in tweakable menu. The "bug" you're talking about is in fact a feature: baloon and cryo tanks are locked on early tech, but if you use arrows in the tweak menu (your usual right-click) game tries to swith to baloon tank, which results in this bug. You have to deal with it until you unlock better tech

I know this feature but I have a lot of techs unlocked (Mature Orbital Rocketry, Early Hydrolox Engines, Staged Combustion, General Construction,...). So I should have access to "fuselage" and "service module" right? I tried using the slider but it isn't working, too.

[Theysen]

Try clicking on the blue bar where it says default, fuselage etc, once it changed there you should be able to tweak it again with the blue little arrows. It often occurs when an engine is already attached to the tank.

[CaptainSprite]

Try clicking on the blue bar where it says default, fuselage etc, once it changed there you should be able to tweak it again with the blue little arrows. It often occurs when an engine is already attached to the tank.

Clicking on the blue bar changes nothing as well. In sandbox mode I could only switch between cryo and default with and without engine attached. I need a pressurized tank because my engine is pressure-fed and it always tells me "feed pressure too low". I will try it again with a clean install of KSP and all the mods.

[jonrd463]

I know this feature but I have a lot of techs unlocked (Mature Orbital Rocketry, Early Hydrolox Engines, Staged Combustion, General Construction,...). So I should have access to "fuselage" and "service module" right? I tried using the slider but it isn't working, too.

Do you have Interstellar Fuel Switch? Try removing it. I had the same problem, and figured there had to be a mod conflict with anything else that changes the way fuel tanks operate. ISF was the most obvious choice and when I removed it, all was right again. It was installed with Nertea's cryogenic engines. I had to get rid of that, too, but it wasn't a big deal since RO doesn't use those engines.

[Trolllception]

I noticed the front post has a mod suggestion for Component Space Shuttle. I notice that mod hasn't seen an update for quite some time. Is the Component Space Shuttle mod supported for RO in KSP 1.0.4? Alternatively can I use Klockheed Martin's Space Shuttle Engines mod? I see a config file included with RO called RO_KlockheedMartian_SSE.

Thanks in advance.

[ErrHead]

The ckan download for the RSS Remotetech config seems to be broken, it tries to download www.dropbox.com/s/ohqv9r9mwng2500/RemoteTech_RSS_Settings.zip?dl=1 which appears to be broken.

[CaptainSprite]

Do you have Interstellar Fuel Switch? Try removing it. I had the same problem, and figured there had to be a mod conflict with anything else that changes the way fuel tanks operate. ISF was the most obvious choice and when I removed it, all was right again. It was installed with Nertea's cryogenic engines. I had to get rid of that, too, but it wasn't a big deal since RO doesn't use those engines.

Thanks a lot! It's now working perfectly fine again!

[NathanKell]

ErrHead: No longer required. I've removed it from our netkan, which should have been done a while ago.

[Michael1856]

Hi Guys I have this bug... The KSC is in the midde of water. Any other location is also bugged. For example Baikonur Cosmodrome is several meters under the surface. Here are the pics and the list of mods I'm currently using.

http://s14.postimg.org/7rj3gpqdt/KSC1.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/dbvkrcp8x/KSC2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/lmlzcxa6p/Mods1.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/7c7tnp4gh/Mods2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/oqs1vz1ld/Mods3.jpg

Any clues?

[Rothank]

Hi Guys I have this bug... The KSC is in the midde of water. Any other location is also bugged. For example Baikonur Cosmodrome is several meters under the surface. Here are the pics and the list of mods I'm currently using.

http://s14.postimg.org/7rj3gpqdt/KSC1.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/dbvkrcp8x/KSC2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/lmlzcxa6p/Mods1.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/7c7tnp4gh/Mods2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/oqs1vz1ld/Mods3.jpg

Any clues?

Manually re-download RSS textures, that should fix the problem.

[Michael1856]

The texture pack I'm currently using is exactly the same aviabile for manual download (77 files, 1 folder; 97,8 MB (102.560.394 byte)). Anyhow I overwrited it but it's still the same. I don't think it's a strictly taxture problem, it's like the position of all KSC is wrong or the terrain altimetry is messed up because when i try to take off from the runway i can clearly see the the runway itself is about 10m-15m from the surface of the water.

[M@.]

---EDIT : So I tried to mess with the thermal values in the debug window, putting Convection Factor from the default "6" to "1" and now I was able to do a clean reentry, with a perigee of 60km, and peak heating of ~2700 degrees at 65km altitude. But now I'm wondering if I'm hiding a bug by tweaking another variable... I don't want to make reentries at other speeds/altitudes unrealistic...

--------------

Just wondering what Im doing wrong.. Coming back from a Moon Orbit (after a very fun moon landing mission in first person with RPM and ALCOR Pod, what a treat), My pod+heatshield just blows up at around 80km altitude. I feel like this shouldn't happen? I'm using the regular RO install with FAR, no DRE.

At 130 km :

Mk 1-2 Pod

4m Heatshield

Orbit speed : 11014 m/s

Apo : 598 Mm

Peri : 80.655 km

Here's a screenshot a second before blowing up

Am I missing something? is it a bug?

Thank you very much! this is really frustrating

Edited September 10, 2015 by M@.

[bos]

Hi Guys I have this bug... The KSC is in the midde of water. Any other location is also bugged.

Try changing terrain detail level.

[viktor19]

---EDIT : So I tried to mess with the thermal values in the debug window, putting Convection Factor from the default "6" to "1" and now I was able to do a clean reentry, with a perigee of 60km, and peak heating of ~2700 degrees at 65km altitude. But now I'm wondering if I'm hiding a bug by tweaking another variable... I don't want to make reentries at other speeds/altitudes unrealistic...

--------------

Just wondering what Im doing wrong.. Coming back from a Moon Orbit (after a very fun moon landing mission in first person with RPM and ALCOR Pod, what a treat), My pod+heatshield just blows up at around 80km altitude. I feel like this shouldn't happen? I'm using the regular RO install with FAR, no DRE.

At 130 km :

Mk 1-2 Pod

4m Heatshield

Orbit speed : 11014 m/s

Apo : 598 Mm

Peri : 80.655 km

Here's a screenshot a second before blowing up

Am I missing something? is it a bug?

Thank you very much! this is really frustrating http://mv.cgcommunity.com/kerbal/screenshot1434.png

When I posted the question about the same problem with my free return probe, the answer was to do multiple passes if necessary because lunar reentry is generates four times more heat than LEO one.

For RO, RealHeat is recomended, so try first with that.

[M@.]

Thanks for the answer! yes, I am using RealHEat. But AFAIK Apollo reentered in one shot, not multiple passes...

When I posted the question about the same problem with my free return probe, the answer was to do multiple passes if necessary because lunar reentry is generates four times more heat than LEO one.

For RO, RealHeat is recomended, so try first with that.

[viktor19]

Are you using a LEO-rated shield or a lunar-rated shield? Note the part descriptions; you won't be able to survive a lunar return with a merely LEO-rated shield...

Thanks for the answer! yes, I am using RealHEat. But AFAIK Apollo reentered in one shot, not multiple passes...

My thoughts exactly! I'm just relaying Nathan's answer.

[Rothank]

M@. You ARE using "lunar rated heatshield" instead of normal 4m one, right?

Edit: ninjad

[Sput42]

---EDIT : So I tried to mess with the thermal values in the debug window, putting Convection Factor from the default "6" to "1" and now I was able to do a clean reentry, with a perigee of 60km, and peak heating of ~2700 degrees at 65km altitude. But now I'm wondering if I'm hiding a bug by tweaking another variable... I don't want to make reentries at other speeds/altitudes unrealistic...

--------------

Just wondering what Im doing wrong.. Coming back from a Moon Orbit (after a very fun moon landing mission in first person with RPM and ALCOR Pod, what a treat), My pod+heatshield just blows up at around 80km altitude. I feel like this shouldn't happen? I'm using the regular RO install with FAR, no DRE.

At 130 km :

Mk 1-2 Pod

4m Heatshield

Orbit speed : 11014 m/s

Apo : 598 Mm

Peri : 80.655 km

Here's a screenshot a second before blowing up

Am I missing something? is it a bug?

Thank you very much! this is really frustrating

I guess rather than changing around heat values, you should try out different reentry trajectories. I've only just started playing around with RO/RSS, and I had a similar issue as you - coming in with a periapis of around 60-70km, then hardly slowing down at all until I blew up at 80 km or so. I remember from playing stock KSP with DRE that this is actually a problem with going in too shallow; contrary to intuition, coming in shallow means you're likely to blow up simply because you spend lots of time in your plasma bubble without really slowing down, while at the same time the thin air doesn't allow for much convection. So going in steeper should solve that problem - although come in too steep, and you get unsurvivable g-forces or don't have enough time to slow down enough before hitting the ground. There's a reason real-life reentry corridors are pretty narrow

I subsequently researched into "the real thing", i.e. NASA data from the Apollo missions, to see how reentry looked like in real life. Turns out they aimed for a much lower periapsis, at around 38 km, so they hit thicker atmosphere quickly to slow down. Once they reach about 2g or so, they steered the capsule up again (by rotating around the offset center of mass, which changes the aerodynamic properties of the lifting body and gives quite some amount of controlling your vertical trajectory; in RO you can do this by enabling "Descent Mode" for your capsule). The capsule goes up more or less ballistically at this point, reducing g-forces back to zero, however not leaving the atmosphere again. Once it falls down again into the thicker atmo, the capsule is slow enough to go all the way down without exceeding maximum g (although one can still somewhat influence the impact point by doing the rotation thing again).

Here's a fun video by NASA explaining the process in detail (although withouy giving many numbers):

Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried this myself yet (still on the TLI part of my Apollo mission recreation), but I would expect Realism Overhaul to behave closely enough to the real world that this should be a way of surviving reentry without tweaking variables.

RealHeat and Deadly Reentry are very much a requirement however; DRE is not making things more deadly anymore, but may tweak things to behave a bit more realistically.

[M@.]

Thanks for your answer! I actually did try all kinds of reentry trajectories to see what is wrong. But I ran into the same problem with shallower, steeper, etc. the temperature just suddenly shoots through the roof , above 3200 degrees... I looked at the real temperatures you would get with those kinds of lunar reentry speeds and here http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/orion/orion-tps.html it says 2760 degrees celsius, which strangely, is pretty much exactly what I get from tweaking the convection value... still don't know what is really going on...

I guess rather than changing around heat values, you should try out different reentry trajectories. I've only just started playing around with RO/RSS, and I had a similar issue as you - coming in with a periapis of around 60-70km, then hardly slowing down at all until I blew up at 80 km or so. I remember from playing stock KSP with DRE that this is actually a problem with going in too shallow; contrary to intuition, coming in shallow means you're likely to blow up simply because you spend lots of time in your plasma bubble without really slowing down, while at the same time the thin air doesn't allow for much convection. So going in steeper should solve that problem - although come in too steep, and you get unsurvivable g-forces or don't have enough time to slow down enough before hitting the ground. There's a reason real-life reentry corridors are pretty narrow

I subsequently researched into "the real thing", i.e. NASA data from the Apollo missions, to see how reentry looked like in real life. Turns out they aimed for a much lower periapsis, at around 38 km, so they hit thicker atmosphere quickly to slow down. Once they reach about 2g or so, they steered the capsule up again (by rotating around the offset center of mass, which changes the aerodynamic properties of the lifting body and gives quite some amount of controlling your vertical trajectory; in RO you can do this by enabling "Descent Mode" for your capsule). The capsule goes up more or less ballistically at this point, reducing g-forces back to zero, however not leaving the atmosphere again. Once it falls down again into the thicker atmo, the capsule is slow enough to go all the way down without exceeding maximum g (although one can still somewhat influence the impact point by doing the rotation thing again).

Here's a fun video by NASA explaining the process in detail (although withouy giving many numbers):

Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried this myself yet (still on the TLI part of my Apollo mission recreation), but I would expect Realism Overhaul to behave closely enough to the real world that this should be a way of surviving reentry without tweaking variables.

RealHeat and Deadly Reentry are very much a requirement however; DRE is not making things more deadly anymore, but may tweak things to behave a bit more realistically.

[NathanKell]

M@.: You are indeed experiencing a bug, since the RO setting for convection factor is 1.1 not 6.

What mods do you have installed? Verify you have GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_Physics.cfg and verify it looks the same as https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/blob/master/GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_Physics.cfg

Clearly *something* is messing up your physics settings.

[M@.]

Thanks for the answer Nathan ! happy to hear that my instinct to tweak the convection setting was right I'll double check the RO_Physics cfg when I get back home. Phew !