Help on building a rover and rescuing Bill Kerman from the Mun

[CmdrBone]

Hi there! First time poster.

I recently bought KSP and I'm absolutely smitten - an awesome game, and I've even managed to land on the Mun already (Science Mode), all with Rockets I designed myself - with barely any casualties (except Jebediah Kerman...).

My problem is that one of my first "landings" on the Mun was spectacularly unsuccessful - the lander connected too fast with the ground, which tore away the engine and it toppled over - right on the door of the command module. Poor Bill Kerman is now trapped ever since aboard the lander. Since by now it must smell kind of funky in there, I'd like to get him out.

I've figured out how to do it already: Land a Rover and push the module over. I've finally researched Rover Tech, but I have no idea how to build

1) a Rover (Design, how to start, etc - the VAB is terrible for Rover construction!),

2) what the Rover needs to turn over a Command Module, and

3) how to integrate this thing into a rocket (how do I detach the Rover? Separators? Docking clamps?).

Helps, ideas and links to guides would be very much appreciated, thank you!

Cheers

Edited November 17, 2014 by CmdrBone

[Norpo]

I am by no means a rover expert (in fact, I specifically avoid making them because they're a pain to build, at least in the VAB.)

Anyways...

You may have to place your wheels 1 at a time. The VAB is terrible for building rovers. This isn't good, considering you're gonna want to put most of your rovers on a rocket. And I at least hope the improved construction options in the next update will help with that. If you try to do 2 way symmetry in the VAB, it just makes one wheel go towards the "ground", and another towards the sky. Well, it might be good if your rover might tumble around...

Keep a wide base, this way it won't topple over as easy, think about the difference between the wideness of a piece of paper compared to a pencil. Wider is better.

Since the landing was on the Mun, "Flying Rover Syndrome", basically where your rover doesn't actually roll around, it just flies, should be easy to avoid. If it's a super light rover however, it may be too light to roll around on the Mun with any speed. Or safety.

Last but not least: I covered some basic things i've experienced, but there's probably more on the wiki page. Or youtube. Or every other tutorial out there. Here's a quick list of sources I looked through quickly and seem like they might be helpful:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Rover

http://imgur.com/a/6quHt (imgur library of some rover designs)

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1fxjou/any_tips_for_building_a_rover_dont_upvote/

And here's something I found on reddit:

I'm no expert but here are a few tips for a good rover experience.

1. Build them in the SPH. The symetry there works nicely for rovers. Then you can either copy the ship file from the SPH dir to the VAB dir or use the subassembly manager to stick it on your ship.
   
2. When driving: Disable the breaks on all wheels in front of the center of mass. This prevents flipping when breaking.
   
3. When driving: On big rovers or those with lots of wheels, it can help to disable steering on all but the front two wheels. Or possibly leave it on for front two and back two. It depend on the rover.
   
4. Keep the center of mass horizontally centered but as low as possible.
   
5. Build wide wheel bases.
   
6. When driving: Switch to docking mode or disable the torque on all reaction wheels and command pods.
   
7. Know the wheels max speed. Then stay a ways below that.
   
8. The orange wheels suck
   
9. If driving by jet/rcs/rocket power rather than wheel power, then use the aircraft wheels. They can move faster. Though you'll need a steering solution, I've used a pair of other wheels in the front.
   
10. Put a landing gear or two on the top. Then if you flip over, you can deploy them to flip yourself back.
    
11. Kerbals can repair popped tires, just get out, walk near and right click on the wheel. (you probably know this but some people don't)
    

-bgog

Thats all I got.

And perhaps, have you tried moving your capsule around or rolling it (Q or E) to move the exploded engine away from the door? Perhaps you don't have to send a rover there after all!

I hope some of this helps. I haven't actually seen a rover tutorial on the forums, other than "Building rovers in the VAB is broken-ish and is hard".

Unrelatedly, I lost my Jebediah Kerman too...

..To a glitch, apparently the game doesn't like it when you somehow get flung at high speeds from a capsule at the ground.

[CmdrBone]

Thank you! Not certain about the rolling, I'll try that asap. But I fear it won't be enough. Right now I'm more concerned how I get the damned thing (Rover, I mean, not Jebediah) to the moon. Still trying to figure out a proper construction for the Rover lander.

[Claw]

My problem is that one of my first "landings" on the Mun was spectacularly unsuccessful - the lander connected too fast with the ground, which tore away the engine and it toppled over - right on the door of the command module. Poor Bill Kerman is now trapped ever since aboard the lander. Since by now it must smell kind of funky in there, I'd like to get him out.

This has got to be about the most common experience in KSP. I think nearly everyone has done it. Also, Jeb doesn't die. He just goes on extended vacations sometimes.

1) a Rover (Design, how to start, etc - the VAB is terrible for Rover construction!),

Build it in the SPH. It'll be much easier. When you build it, use a random part as the first part (such as a cubic strut) and build off of that. Once it's done, lift the rover off of that first cubic strut and drop it into the sub-assembly tab. Then you can flip over to the VAB and pull out the rover to attach to your rocket.

Just bear in mind that whatever node you connected first when you built the rover will be the node available to you when you try and connect it in the VAB. I recommend making something small to test it out with first so you see what happens before building something more complex.

2) what the Rover needs to turn over a Command Module, and

Depends on how big your lander is (or what's left of it). It shouldn't take too much to roll a command pod a little, but depends on what's attached to it. (Pictures might help.)

3) how to integrate this thing into a rocket (how do I detach the Rover? Separators? Docking clamps?).

Docking clamps work, but are heavier. Separators work, but can leave an extra bit to fall onto your rover if you're not careful how you attach it (because separators come off the parent and the child part). Decouplers are the lightest option, but just make sure you attach it in a way that makes sense for your rover. You can actually even make the decoupler a structural part of your rover to attach other doodads to if you're building a small one.

And if you haven't done it yet, landings at a specific spot can be difficult (especially with an elephant rover hanging off of the rocket). So be prepared for that as well.

Oh yeah. And again, if it's just a MK1 pod you need to roll, a second (rescue) kerbal can be capable of rolling that on the Mun.

Good luck!

~Claw

[The_Rocketeer]

You are actively learning how to solve problems of your own creation - excellent!

I strongly recommend practising with rover designs in the SPH. There are various ways to attach a payload like a rover to a rocket, none of which are without their hazards. The easiest to build is to just plonk the rover on the top of the rocket with a stack separator so you can detach it when you land, but this means the rover has to fall from on top of the rocket before it can be used. Other options include using a skycrane (see the stock example) to drop the rover from beneath (like the Mars rover), or making the rover with VTOL rockets or RCS built in so it can land itself.

SPH symmetry is much better than the VAB for Rover designs. Start your design with a root part that represents where the rest of your rocket will be attached to the rover, and build the rover onto this part. When you've finished building the rover, select the part of the rover that attaches to the root part (which will detach all of the rover parts as a subassembly) and drop the rover onto the subassemblies tab. This will let you save the rover to this tab so you can load it in the VAB and put it on your rocket.

You might find that turning over your rocket is harder than you thought, because the low gravity on Mun means you don't get a lot of traction/grip from your wheels. Therefore, I suggest building a rover with several pairs of wheels, and consider adding some ballast part to gain extra grip. Of course, if your stuck lander isn't too heavy and is a nice round shape this might not be necessary.

[CmdrBone]

1) I have pictures, but I haven't figured out how to post them yet; I can only link to pics on the interwebs.

2) the lander is just an MK 1 Pod with landing gear, couple of batteries, 2 mystery goo containers and a SC-9001 unit attached - I honestly have no idea how the SC-9001 survived the crash, since they have a tendency to disintegrate upon normal landings on Kerbin (back before I used four parachutes just to make sure). But it is rather round and lying on the side, so pushing it should work. Problem is the landing gear, probably.

3) thanks for the tip regarding rover design; I'll use the SPH from now on. Also the explanation how to use root parts was definitely necessary. I guess I understand subassemblies a little bit better now.

4) The landing should not be a problem; I have four successful Mun landings under my belt now and the last two were approximately (values for "approximate" may vary greatly. Ask your local rocket scientist if "approximately" is right for your space program!) where I wanted them. The crash site is directly at the equator of the Mun, so easy to find. Also, the rover will make sure small deviations are not a problem. ;-)

5) and yes, for some reason Jeb is back at the Space Center. Damn, we actually had a memorial flag planted in his honor during the first moon landing, and he doesn't have the decency to stay dead!?!

6) Will post progress as soon as my laptop is running again; I blew my Power adapter today (during a mun landing, no less), so it should take a couple of days. Thanks for the help, you guys have been a real inspiration!

[LordFerret]

I've had that happen, more than once. If you've still got some battery power left, you might be able to roll the capsule over (reaction wheels).

If you can roll the capsule over, instead of building a rover for rescue, put up another capsule (an unmanned MK1, with an OKTO or Stayputnik brain for control) and go land nearby.

If you cannot roll the capsule over, put up another capsule (a manned MK1-2, with one pilot), land nearby, and have the pilot roll the capsule over.

I've had situations where I've had to do both of the above. lol

[Zylark]

Aight - Building Rovers is not that hard, in the SPH. Building rovers that are useful whilst low on the tech tree, is a bit more challenging. So to help out the OP a little, an example of a little basic rover and delivery vehicle designed for stock early career and fulfilling the mission the OP set himself. Rescuing Bill on the Mun.

First pop off to the SPH and get the Rover going.

Start with the Docking Port, and then add a few parts like in the picture. All this using 1x symmetry.

Next up add wheels, batteries and solar panels. Use 2x symmetry. Mind you, this design got a pretty high Center of Mass and not that wide a wheel-base, so it must be driven with care.

All done, select the Docking Port you started with, and save as a Sub Assembly.

Next, go to the VAB, and get a basic little pod going. Start with the Stayputnik, then a 1 man Capsule, next a reaction-wheel and on the bottom an upside-down Docking Port. Then load up the Rover Sub-Assembly and attach to the Docking Port. All you then need to do, is to build your fuel, engines, landing legs and so on around the Rover. Something like this:

Add a decoupler at the bottom of the Rover and a 1.25 to 2.5 adapter if you intend to use Rockomax fuel tanks for your rocket. Apply plenty of Space-Tape (Struts), and then make a rocket that can haul it all to orbit and preferably also to Mun orbit.

From below:

Obviously, under the adapter goes the rocket. The actual lander with Rover attached got enough dV to land on Mun, get back to orbit around Mun and return to Kerbin.

Actual mission profile:

1: Get the entire contraption to Mun Orbit, with -one- Kerbal.

2: Land near Bill 'Bungler' Kerman.

3: Undock the Rover - the struts keeping it to the lander will remove themselves automatically. Oh, and apply brakes before undocking.

4: If not already in the Rover, move your Kerbal there.

5: Drive -slowly and carefully- to Bill and nudge his lander-can over.

6: When free, get Bill to the Lander Capsule.

7: Now the tricky part - position the Rover directly under the Lander, so that the Docking Ports align. Maybe practice this a few times on Kerbin before embarking on your mission.

8: Switch to the Lander, and retract landing legs. The Rover and Lander should now dock, and the entire thing rests on the wheels of the Rover. As soon as docking is achieved, give full thrust and get to Mun Orbit.

Now, I don't think landing back on Kerbin with the Rover slung underneath is entirely safe. It may just detach as the chutes open. But sending up an unmanned capsule to bring down who is left in the Rover should be easy.

This design can naturally be embellished upon and made more optimized for whatever your needs is.

With plenty of mods and late in the Tech-Tree, using much the same design philosophy, I made this for my own career:

My little MunBuggy is however hoisted up back on the Lander using winches from Kerbal Attachment System. And features RCS for handling going up or down steep hills, all the science gear I could cram into it and all kinds of little things to make it useful for fulfilling FinePrint mod contracts rover missions.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Zylark

[CmdrBone]

Oh my... That is perfect, thank you! I never realised that Rovers could be built using those parts; I always started with the stock Rove-Max thing. Or rather, I consciously knew that I could use those parts, but somehow never made the mental connection necessary to build a rover out of them!

I'll et you know how this works out!

[Wanderfound]

This is probably more complexity than you're after at this stage of your game, but...rockets aren't the only way to deliver a rover to the Mun:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1504987&viewfull=1#post1504987

[CmdrBone]

Alright, thanks for all the help, but I've just found out my save file is corrupt and, well, lost. Looks like Bill Kerman never took this fateful trip to the Mun, because, well, I have to start all over again. Daaaaamn!

Well, at least this time, I'll make sure the Mun will not end up as a grave for my boys...

Anyhow, thanks for all the help, I'll keep you posted how my second attempt goes.

[adsii1970]

Wow... I never thought about doing a rover like that. My problem was that I could never figure out how to attach them to a lander to get them to their destination. I had tried variations, including a vertical take-off deployment unmanned "probe" but with limited success. (I'm still trying out how to post pictures here or I would share) Definitely going to have to try some vehicles based on what I've seen! Thanks for the inspiration...