[1.12.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (August 18, 2024)

[Captain Sierra]

"x64" pretty much sums up what's going on then.

I take extremely unkindly to people who automatically assume x64 is the root of every problem someone has.

1) That was in reference to KJR exclusively, since it disables itself on x64.

2) my current general use install is not even x64, only my cinematic one is so I can run AVP for awesome screenshots.

Don't assume because the word "x64" ended up in my post that it's whats wrong. I've had bugs under 64 bit that I have traced all the way back to vanilla 32 bit and reported.

I've been lucky to have, outside of 0.90, a very stable x64 installation with no fatal errors and very little mod flaws. Try to get some more info before daring to make assumptions like that.

[MaverickSawyer]

Plugins of note:

Interstellar Fuel Switch

BahamutoD Animation Modules

EditorExtensions

Firespitter

HyperEdit

Kopernicus

No Offset Limits

Stock Bug Fix Modules

There's a bunch more but they're more minor or I'm assuming have no bearing on why the procedural wings don't work.

The KJR problem is usually result of my craft not needing KJR-level stabilization and thus applying that much strength is causing kraken summoning (also I run x64 half the time so there's that).

Either the Editor Extensions or the Stock Bug Fix Modules are where I'd look first, if it were me.

[JaffaFediration]

There appears to be something wrong with the RCS blister, its collision mesh or something is too big and causes it to stick out away from the plane...

[Captain Sierra]

Either the Editor Extensions or the Stock Bug Fix Modules are where I'd look first, if it were me.

I must confess I didnt use EE at al up until the other day post 0.90. It came back into my rotation after I tried and removed B9 wings.

There appears to be something wrong with the RCS blister, its collision mesh or something is too big and causes it to stick out away from the plane...

You're the second one reporting this and I cant replicate. Are you attempting to place the part in radial symmetry? Due to how that works in KSP, placing it in radial symmetry greater than 2 can often cause floating placement. This is also observable with any other part on the mk2 fuselage.

[JaffaFediration]

Alsoy version doesn't seem to have the jet exhaust animation

- - - Updated - - -

No, only mirror.

[Nertea]

TY guys. Great response keeps me working .

Just a heads up for anyone with Bahamut's adjustable landing gear - the BDAnimationsModule in this will wreck adjustable landing gear if you've got the BDAnimationsModule from that installed. They're apparently very different... The one in the Mk4 DL is 15KB, other is 80KB.

Huh, I'll really have to look at that. I pulled this DLL from his Git releases, assumed it was the latest. Will maybe ask him to verify.

OMG!

http://i.imgur.com/KtNdxhU.png

http://i.imgur.com/d7HNtXy.png

http://i.imgur.com/t36vYki.png

http://i.imgur.com/aeKwMj6.png

Works perfect, allmost Stock install, KER readout in orbit not consistent available, very good balance, amazing!

Nertea, thank you!!!

(EDIT:The snoopy nosecone is simply adorable...)

Very nice . That plane just proves to me that the planned 2.5m aviation fuel tanks are needed.

Bug Report: Heavy RCS Blister floats far outwards from the surface of attachment in both angle snap and free placement modes.

http://i.imgur.com/xPX3YXf.jpg

Bug Report: Noticeable seam on Mk4 Dual Adaptor (perhaps a slight scale issue)

http://i.imgur.com/6xNZdL1.jpg

Bug Report: Texture mis-alignment and slight z-fighting on service bay front and back (nodes?)

http://i.imgur.com/t24AZLh.jpg

Thanks for the reports. I cannot replicate the issue with the heavy RCS blister though.

I made something that worked, but I didn't notice I hadn't any electrical power generation. Also, it's easy to have too much oxidiser, and balance shifts as fuel is burnt can be a killer.

It looks like you need the centre of mass further forward of the centre of lift, and a way of reducing pitch control force after take-off. Multi-section Elevons with an action group to toggle most of the pitch and roll force at high air-speed? You may need a lot of pitch authority to control take-off and landing. This is a real-world problem, especially in pre fly-by-wire days when changing the stick-to-control relationship with speed needed ingenious mechanical systems and a lot of test flying.

Concorde used to pump fuel forwards to correct for the supersonic trim change.

I used the B9 Procedural Wings, which can store some fuel.

Splitting the main fuel tank to put the oxidiser further forward might help

Maybe a longer nose-gear, to raise the nose during the take-off run, would help.

I did wonder if the cargo bays were missing. Everything else is "Mk4 Something" but they are "CRG Mk4 Something" and index differently.

Yeah, I changed the word order during testing to reduce clicks. Will probably change it back.

Is that integrated into Community Tech Tree? I can not see those parts.

Great job - keep going on them.

They should be integrated, and will appear primarily in the Experimental Aerodynamics and Aerospace Composites nodes.

Hey Nertea, awesome work, as always...THX!

I've made a MFT-patch, feel free to include it to your download.

Btw, the "Heavy Extended Engine Nacelle " aka "mk4enginenacelle-25-1" has entry costs of 385000. Seems too high by an order of magnitude compared to the other parts?

Yeah probably a bug . I think science unlock costs need a pass anyways.

I'll check your patch and probably include it, thanks

I'm also not done the pack! I have two relatively distinct updates planned, would appreciate input on which of the two I should work on first. They are both similar amounts of work.

A) Advanced Propulsion: More propulsion-related options, including highlights:

2.5m aviation fuel tanks, in short/medium/long sizes

1.25m Hornet VTOL engine, like the Yellowjacket but better suited to Mk4 planes

2.5m CUTLASS multimode engine

2.5m or 3.75m nuclear ramjet

Maybe large to huge ducted fans

Advanced Cargo: More fuselage and cargo-oriented parts, including the following highlights:

Mk4 inline cockpit

Mk4 cargo elevator for attaching to ventral cargo bays

Nose cargo bay (C-5 style)

Few more adapters

[billkerbinsky]

Advanced Cargo: More fuselage and cargo-oriented parts, including the following highlights:

Mk4 inline cockpit

Mk4 cargo elevator for attaching to ventral cargo bays

Nose cargo bay (C-5 style)

Few more adapters

My vote's for this one.

Related to the cargo elevator, a front-facing ventral ramp behind the cockpit seems to be a common SF ship design element - you see it in the Aliens colonial marines dropship, Firefly/Serenity cargo ramp, and Star Wars Imperial Shuttle. May require extra long landing gear (but then so would a ventral cargo elevator).

[MaverickSawyer]

I'm also not done the pack! I have two relatively distinct updates planned, would appreciate input on which of the two I should work on first. They are both similar amounts of work.

A) Advanced Propulsion: More propulsion-related options, including highlights:

2.5m aviation fuel tanks, in short/medium/long sizes

1.25m Hornet VTOL engine, like the Yellowjacket but better suited to Mk4 planes

2.5m CUTLASS multimode engine

2.5m or 3.75m nuclear ramjet

Maybe large to huge ducted fans

Advanced Cargo: More fuselage and cargo-oriented parts, including the following highlights:

Mk4 inline cockpit

Mk4 cargo elevator for attaching to ventral cargo bays

Nose cargo bay (C-5 style)

Few more adapters

Perhaps add a VTOL rocket engine? I'd love to use these to land rovers and habs on other planets, but only being able to go horizontal VTOL on Laythe is a bit of a headache.

[Captain Sierra]

Advanced Cargo: More fuselage and cargo-oriented parts, including the following highlights:

Mk4 inline cockpit

Mk4 cargo elevator for attaching to ventral cargo bays

Nose cargo bay (C-5 style)

Few more adapters

Definitely this.

I'd add a non-airbreathing set of VTOLs to the A set. ALso how do you plan the cargo elevator? I cant see how that'd work without taking IR as a dependency (and I've had a bad experience with IR and so hesitate with that).

Also, an idea for a cargo ramp/cockpit part. You have the hollowness of the crew cabin, so what about adding that same hollowness to the Thunderhawk cockpit and making the part of it below the cockpit section split open side-to-side? Might do some crappy MSPaint mockups for ya later.

[the8cell]

i notice that the mk3 adapter is just SLIGHTLY larger than a mk3 cross section on the bottom

i also notice that the cockpit isn't a connected living space, which is probably unintentional

great work though. kind of a shame that something in my personal set of mods (many of which i have tweaked myself) don't like the parts and it tends to crash the game every 3 or 4 flights upon loading the SPH. or maybe the parts pack is causing it on its own? worth it, though. i dunno, haven't had time to look at logs, probably won't bother unless it gets bad.

[Captain Sierra]

i notice that the mk3 adapter is just SLIGHTLY larger than a mk3 cross section on the bottom

i also notice that the cockpit isn't a connected living space, which is probably unintentional

great work though. kind of a shame that something in my personal set of mods (many of which i have tweaked myself) don't like the parts and it tends to crash the game every 3 or 4 flights upon loading the SPH. or maybe the parts pack is causing it on its own? worth it, though. i dunno, haven't had time to look at logs, probably won't bother unless it gets bad.

First guess is memory crashing. You can force OpenGL or DX11 to improve RAM usage, or cut back on mods.

I'm also always available for help if people PM me.

[Faile]

Thank you Nertea, this is by far one of my favorite mods ever!

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I've also got the issue with the heavy RCS blister. Nertea, is yours the same as ours? Is its node_attach = 0.45212, -0.0105571, -0.0059382, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0?

[JaffaFediration]

I've also got the issue with the heavy RCS blister. Nertea, is yours the same as ours? Is its node_attach = 0.45212, -0.0105571, -0.0059382, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0?

Hey, what version of KSP do you use? I have the problem and I am running OS X.

Also there doesn't appear to be any animations for the Jet engine exhaust.

[blowfish]

Also there doesn't appear to be any animations for the Jet engine exhaust.

You mean the nozzle flaps? You need firespitter for that.

[TicTacToe!]

Throw in my vote for B as well, great work Nert, cheers.

[Wolf Baginski]

I couldnt get B9 wings to work and KJR did more damage to my save than it fixed. Any solutions?

Specifically what B9 did was the wing part texture switcher didnt appear to be working (mass z-fighting) and I couldn't get any of the geometry options to kick in.

KJR just doesn't like me half the time.

That could all be a sign that you're too close to the RAM limit. What puzzled me the first time I used those procedural wings was turning on the interface. Set symmetry in the SPH, hover the mouse-pointer over the wing, and hit the J-key.

I suspect there's a lot of temporary memory use at that point. It might help to set up the wing-shape relatively early in the build/edit process, and fine-tune the fore-and-aft location later. But since KSP pre-loads everything, that may be affecting CPU load rather than RAM.

I was working on a stock Mk2 spaceplane and found that moving canard planes back and forth was good for fine-tuning trim.

[Artfact]

I also vote Advanced Cargo! Those sounds like incredibly useful and fun parts.

[Wolf Baginski]

I wonder about the intakes too.

I did a bit of searching on the Wiki, and it's something not well-explained. I suspect there may have been changes since some of the Wiki pages were written.

Both the amount of intake air needed, and the way that air gets distributed between intakes and engines.

I have removed the Mk4 spaceplane mods, and some other stuff, because memory was tight enough to be awkward, but I have done some testing with stock Mk2, and a single Rapier and intake can be ample. So that model of mine doesn't need so many intakes, that's for sure.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Nert, you've got yourself a masterpiece here! I was actually able to make a straight-up Thunderbird 2 and it works BEAUTIFULLY!!

It'll never match turns with a fighter, but there's enough control to make the traditional low-level fly-by. I think it helps that the whole structure is a lifting body in the new aerodynamics.

My inner Jeb is telling me - "Hang on a sec, that last pass wasn't low enough, we can do better than that!"

Top speed is apparently around Mach 3.4 at 23,000 meters with not a SINGLE temperature gauge on any part giving warning signals!

Mind you - all of the above was on the maiden test flight with an empty cargo hold. But it certainly seems promising!

Now all I need is an update of Kerb Paint to get the right shade of green on her and I think we're set!

You've got a real winner in this mod, Nertea. Kudos!

[mikegt87]

So just playing around I built the biggest most op spaeplane using this pack and procedural wings. Not sure how much payload she can take to orbit... but its a lot. Going to redesign with engine pod placement so I can get a more favorable weight distribution to make it easier to land and take off

She hits 500 m/s on the run way lol

No big deal, 1000 m/s at 9000 meteres with a 45 degree angle of pitch and still accelerating at almost 42 m/s/s!! lol. She hit a 70000 meter sub orbital altitude without having to close cycle the engines.

Orbital burn

[stardestroyer]

Hi Nertea! This mod is magnificent! There are just some weird bugs in cockpit props. Will you update them also?

[Captain Sierra]

So just playing around I built the biggest most op spaeplane using this pack and procedural wings. Not sure how much payload she can take to orbit... but its a lot. Going to redesign with engine pod placement so I can get a more favorable weight distribution to make it easier to land and take off

She hits 500 m/s on the run way lol

http://i.imgur.com/tBD4cMG.jpg

No big deal, 1000 m/s at 9000 meteres with a 45 degree angle of pitch and still accelerating at almost 42 m/s/s!! lol. She hit a 70000 meter sub orbital altitude without having to close cycle the engines.

http://i.imgur.com/9SEOs4P.jpg

Orbital burn

http://i.imgur.com/dQoNu7L.jpg

:0.0: :0.0: :0.0:

I have no words ...

[jackal40]

Nertea, this mod rocks! I use almost all of your mods and am so impressed.

If only 64 bit was stable enough I could do so much more.

[Nertea]

Hi Nertea! This mod is magnificent! There are just some weird bugs in cockpit props. Will you update them also?

It would be nice if you could post some screenshots indicating these bugs.

Nert, you've got yourself a masterpiece here! I was actually able to make a straight-up Thunderbird 2 and it works BEAUTIFULLY!!

http://i.imgur.com/sp4JofN.png

It'll never match turns with a fighter, but there's enough control to make the traditional low-level fly-by. I think it helps that the whole structure is a lifting body in the new aerodynamics.

http://i.imgur.com/nqZ35My.png

My inner Jeb is telling me - "Hang on a sec, that last pass wasn't low enough, we can do better than that!"

http://i.imgur.com/3Dn0WVZ.png

Top speed is apparently around Mach 3.4 at 23,000 meters with not a SINGLE temperature gauge on any part giving warning signals!

http://i.imgur.com/WQ1rIOJ.png

Mind you - all of the above was on the maiden test flight with an empty cargo hold. But it certainly seems promising!

Now all I need is an update of Kerb Paint to get the right shade of green on her and I think we're set!

You've got a real winner in this mod, Nertea. Kudos!

Yay, it flies!

I've also got the issue with the heavy RCS blister. Nertea, is yours the same as ours? Is its node_attach = 0.45212, -0.0105571, -0.0059382, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0?

Yup, mine is the same. I'll further investigate this weekend.

Definitely this.

I'd add a non-airbreathing set of VTOLs to the A set. ALso how do you plan the cargo elevator? I cant see how that'd work without taking IR as a dependency (and I've had a bad experience with IR and so hesitate with that).

Also, an idea for a cargo ramp/cockpit part. You have the hollowness of the crew cabin, so what about adding that same hollowness to the Thunderhawk cockpit and making the part of it below the cockpit section split open side-to-side? Might do some crappy MSPaint mockups for ya later.

Elevator would work identically to the cargo ramp. Might just multimode the existing vtols with new FX, doesn't seem to be worth a totally new part.