In flight CoM indicator pop-up

[Wallygator]

Managing a mission back from Jool (Typing this while my final Kerbin transfer burn is underway... 15 min... Girl from Ipanema playing in background over ship tannoy...) Prior to this burn, the Vessel CoM ended up out of alignment due to shift of masses of docked sub-vehicles. I ended up saving it by shifting fuel around but what a hunt and poke operation!

It would be nice if the CoM (which is already calculated as part of the camera view BTW!) could be called up with a key press. Rebalancing a craft in flight is tricky regardless, but this would be a helpful feature.

I checked the what is already suggested list and did not see this - also it is not specifically banned on the what not to suggest - I think I'm in the clear on this one.

Thoughts?

W

[prophet_01]

I know the problem. I fixed it by going to the VAB and tried a couple of variants with docking and different amounts of fuel in each tank until I found a solution. It reminded me of various incidents that NASA solved the same way (apollo 13, mars rover that was stuck in a quick sand like area). They tried different solution back on earth before they told the crew how to best use theire limit resources.

on topic: yes it would be helpful in some situations, but it would also kinda ruin the whole "just try it out and hope that it will work" approach. Unlucky coincedents are part of KSP and improvised solutions are fun to me. If I have the COG displayed it's not that cool anymore

it's also not realistic and it's not a game breacking problem, it's fun to me

[Wallygator]

JTIOAHTIWW you have created a new forum acronym! I shall give you rep.

I seriously do not think it will run anything. If that was the case, then the CoM indicator should also be removed from the VAB as it gives too much advantage and makes construction a bit easier.

On a more realistic note: It might even be more entertaining to add to the mission control building a vessel schematic "big board" room where the current configuration of all flights can be called up and analysed. static 3d views with all the data available on fuel amounts, CoX indicators, electrical supply, crew stats, etc just like in a Real Mission Control Centre.

[prophet_01]

Thanks for the rep. It's not rly ruining anything. To me it's more about how the gameplay is kinda devided into the planing/testing process and the actual mission. I prefer the given info in flight to be minimalistic, whileI like to have as much data as possible during the design process. Maybe it's more of a personal preference, but once I leave LKO it's just an "all in" situatuion to me and I like the to be reminded that it's hard to predict anything. It's fun to fail once in a while and to not get a solution for a mistake during the design process that easily. It keeps the feeling of being in space and thus being far away from any help or theoretical solution. I have to improvise and use the little info and ressources on site or accept failure. I like that, but again that might just be me

[Guest]

There is an app mod for this:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80581

[cicatrix]

That's nice, I'd like to also see the center of thrust.

If I have an unsymmetric ship I really want to adjust the thrust of engines to compensate the rotation. The problem usually creeps at me when the tanks have <50% of fuel. Making long interplanetary burns is pain because I need to limit the thrust. There's nothing that can be done if I have only 1 engine, but if I have more then by adjusting the thrust I can compensate.

I'm used to do it by trial and error, but having a CoT indicator will help a lot.

[Vaporo]

on topic: yes it would be helpful in some situations, but it would also kinda ruin the whole "just try it out and hope that it will work" approach. Unlucky coincedents are part of KSP and improvised solutions are fun to me. If I have the COG displayed it's not that cool anymore

it's also not realistic and it's not a game breacking problem, it's fun to me

Perhaps COM viewing in-flight could be unlocked in a tech node. "Advanced constuction," or something of the like.

[Red Iron Crown]

AFAIK KSP doesn't calculate the CoM in flight currently, it's not just a matter of turning on a display. It's much more difficult than in the VAB/SPH, as the craft can deform from its original shape. I agree that it would be useful at times but I'm not sure how feasible it is.

[ratchet freak]

AFAIK KSP doesn't calculate the CoM in flight currently, it's not just a matter of turning on a display. It's much more difficult than in the VAB/SPH, as the craft can deform from its original shape. I agree that it would be useful at times but I'm not sure how feasible it is.

it's looping over the parts and doing (psuedo code):

double totalMass = 0.0;
vec4 center = vec4(0,0,0,0);

for(part in vessel.allparts){
    if(part.physicsEnabled){
        totalMass+=part.mass;
        center.add(part.transformedCenter.scale(part.mass));
    }
}
center.scale(1/totalMass);

I'm fairly certain all parts are looped over several times during each physic tick doing much more complex calculations.

[Red Iron Crown]

How do you know it does that?

[Tw1]

AFAIK KSP doesn't calculate the CoM in flight currently, it's not just a matter of turning on a display. It's much more difficult than in the VAB/SPH, as the craft can deform from its original shape. I agree that it would be useful at times but I'm not sure how feasible it is.

Actually, the center of mass is where it centers the camera.

I've manipulated this to my advantage when building sets for Oceans of Eve.

You can also get some strange/cool effects when joining ships with KAS cables or pipes.

[Red Iron Crown]

Actually, the center of mass is where it centers the camera.

I've manipulated this to my advantage when building sets for Oceans of Eve.

You can also get some strange/cool effects when joining ships with KAS cables or pipes.

Are you sure it's CoM and not just the center of the shape? If it was CoM I'd expect the camera to shift down a rocket as it burns through its fuel, I haven't observed this but I just may not have noticed.

Edit for below: I might be wrong about this, I should make a test rig but I'm not at my KSP computer.

[Wallygator]

I was under the impression that the camera view focus was always computed based on the center of mass. This seems to be true as the view changes as fuel is burned etc.

[Tw1]

Are you sure it's CoM and not just the center of the shape? If it was CoM I'd expect the camera to shift down a rocket as it burns through its fuel, I haven't observed this but I just may not have noticed.

Postive. I have used a tiny, 50t weight to make the camera focus on a certain spot.

[Red Iron Crown]

Thanks for that, something new today.

[Guest]

I can confirm, camera is aimed to COM. Try to pump fuel from one tank to another, and you will see camera moving.

[Wallygator]

So... all I'm asking for is a pop-up to show the camera view target - which is already calculated.

Simples? ;-)

[Guest]

Somewhere higher up the thread, I mentioned mod, that can show COM, at least in IVA with RPM mod installed. I use only RPM version of that mod, and cannot say if it can show standalone window.

[Wallygator]

Somewhere higher up the thread, I mentioned mod, that can show COM, at least in IVA with RPM mod installed. I use only RPM version of that mod, and cannot say if it can show standalone window.

Yes, understand that.

I'm suggesting a much lighter version - never envisioned needing RPM.

[Guest]

Yes, understand that.

I'm suggesting a much lighter version - never envisioned needing RPM.

There is non-RPM version and combo version as well. Never tried them, but you can try, may be you will like them.