Forum controlled KSP campaign: Space race to the Mun!

[togfox]

Who would be interested in a campaign where I set some rules on this forum, you guys submit craft to me that meet these rules, and then I \'score\' the craft and give \'credits\' back to you via this forum? Do this over a period of time with evolving craft and it would be like a virtual campaign.

Example:

You are each highly skilled engineers and you see an ad in the Kerbal Times newspaper stating that any Kerbal that can pilot a craft to an altitude of 6500m, and descend without casualties, gets a \'corporate\' prize (sponsorship) of $5294. The problem is, as game master, I\'ve set the rule that all you budding engineers have are the basic components available to you. SRB, capsule, chute and decoupler. It\'s not a lot to work with and to make any money, you have to build a craft that costs less than your start up fund of $5100. Your accountant tells you a command module costs $1600 and decouplers cost $975 and other bits also cost money and so on. You mess around with a few designs and you come up with a winner. It\'s lean and it only just scrapes an altitude of 6500m but you\'re sure it can make you money.

You submit that craft too me. I make sure its within your budget and uses technology you have available and if I can accomplish the stated mission with your craft (offline), I update the original post so everyone can see you now have $5294 prize money + whatever lose change you had from building the craft. Now with this extra money, you set your sights on grander missions. Higher altitudes. Near orbits. After a few successful missions, you unlock liquid fuel engines (for a price) and orbits become a reality.

But to win the space race you will have to build low cost craft. We\'d all like lifters with 10 engines on them but the budget might not allow for that. You\'ll need to keep your craft lean and you\'ll have to post on this forum if you wish to unlock new technologies. You\'ll have to keep an eye on your competitors and pick out the missions that pay the most and are within your grasp.

Over time you can unlock a full tech tree and be the first to put a cart on the Mun and claim the ultimate accolade. 8)

This would be turn based. You would submit a craft file every 2nd day (I suggest) and if your craft meets all the parameters, you\'ll get paid. You then spend the next two days working on something bigger for your next mission and then submit that craft file to me. I\'d fly each craft to make sure it is structurally capable of the claimed mission.

You pick the mission. You build a craft within the budget with the allowed technology. You decide how to beat your competitors. You do this every 2nd day. I announce prize money and manage available missions over time. When orbits become a reality through research then I can post persistence files for those that like to fly past their competitors satellites and see burning debris on the Mun.

If this sounds like a simple distraction and a new challenge (ie thinking about money for the first time ever). I\'d need at least three, preferably four players and see how we go. If it works then it works. If ppl stop posting craft files then it stops.

It would be mostly stock (one or two minor realism/convenience mods) and ppl can start late, though they probably won\'t win the race.

If it sounds like a new twist to regular over overpowered launches then register your interest here!

[DonLorenzo]

Yeah absolutely interested. I\'ve toyed with the same idea for weeks now but always decided it would be too much work and/or too arbitrary. With someone else doing the heavy lifting, I\'m in

[togfox]

Thanks Don. If I can get at two or three more then we\'ll have a green light.

Three missions have already been designed.

[Kosmo-not]

I\'m interested in this idea. Though, I hope my apartment has internet and electricity when I get back home.

[Guest GroundHOG-2010]

Interested? Of course!!!!

[Carnivrspigbat]

I\'m also interested, I\'d like to try, but school might get in the way. :\'(

Sign me up. 8)

[Radion]

I am interested as well. *Returns to underground research facility designing*

[togfox]

Okay - we have the green light. More can sign up. I have an idea of scanning submitted craft files quickly to ensure they are up to speck.

I\'ll type up what I think are reasonable rules.

I\'d like to force the Zoxygen mod for space flight (for realism) and allow the PowerStat Mod (optional).

I know some people are anti-mods but I\'m asking for just one mod that I think adds a lot of realism.

If I get more yes than no then I\'ll build Zoxygen into the rules.

Post your thoughts.

[Radion]

I believe Zoxygen would work quite well, actually.

[togfox]

Here is my suggested tech tree. You need to unlock these from basic to level 6

Basic: SRB, capsule, chute, decoupler, Zoxygen System - main, mechjeb

Level1: radial decoupler, struts, tricoupler

Level2: LF tanks, small LFE, landing legs

Level3: SAS, fuel lines, large LFE, Zoxygen tanks

Level4: ASAS, winglets, gimballed LFE, Radio controlled craft (sat-relay antenna mod - optional)

Level5: RCS, RCS tanks, Zoxygen recharge panels

Level6: Powersats (optional mod), cart (optional mod)

I\'ve put a bit of thought into those levels but I\'m happy to tweak. There are mods in there but they are all optional. The sat relay mod can be used if you don\'t want to risk your crew but you have to consider that comms network available at the time. The powersats are optional but they will be available missions. The cart is optional but that is the ultimate glory - a cart on the Mun.

The mechjeb is available for free right from the start. Not because that\'s \'realistic\' but simply because that\'s how I\'m going to test your craft. :-D

I\'m making this up as I go because no one has designed any sort of research tree that I know of. Who knows, the outcomes of this might influence the real campaign design some day. 8)

I intend on designing missions for payment and I have to put up a rule-set as well. The rules will contain a large slice of honesty in some places.

[Bluejayek]

Okay - we have the green light. More can sign up. I have an idea of scanning submitted craft files quickly to ensure they are up to speck.

I\'ll type up what I think are reasonable rules.

I\'d like to force the Zoxygen mod for space flight (for realism) and allow the PowerStat Mod (optional).

I know some people are anti-mods but I\'m asking for just one mod that I think adds a lot of realism.

If I get more yes than no then I\'ll build Zoxygen into the rules.

Post your thoughts.

But its accepted that kerbals use photosynthesis! Thats totally ruining the lore!

I\'m in for this though, sounds like a fun idea

[DonLorenzo]

I haven\'t played around with the zoxygen plugin, but I\'m fairly confident I know what it does and I say yes. Tech tree looks nice, slightly unrealistic (RCS at such a late tech?) but interesting design and gameplay wise.

Maybe slap orbital map view in the tech tree somewhere, even though that requires a bit of an honour system and mechjeb does the job pretty much..

Speaking of mechjeb, will it be mandatory on all craft (as you use it for testing)? If so, which one? The heavy in-stack one or the light radial?

Any thoughts on penalizing crew death? Again would require a degree of honesty, but maybe worth a shot.

edit: I would put powersats in with the radio controlled craft in the tech tree. They work nicely together and the radio controlled crafts are kind of pointless without comsats.

[DonLorenzo]

But its accepted that kerbals use photosynthesis! Thats totally ruining the lore!

I\'m in for this though, sounds like a fun idea

In that case you can imagine the O2 tanks are actually CO2 tanks and you\'re good to go

[mincespy]

Yes.

Awesome.

[Guest GroundHOG-2010]

But its accepted that kerbals use photosynthesis! Thats totally ruining the lore!

I\'m in for this though, sounds like a fun idea

The main problem is it isn\'t accepted the kerbals use photosynthesis. That was just a theory.

[Cykyrios]

Definitely interested as well 8)

[ColdFire75]

I think this is a great idea =D

[togfox]

I\'m glad this has enthusiastic support.

I\'ll make RCS an earlier tech. I was trying to smooth out some levels but it doesn\'t make sense to be so late.

I\'m trying to avoid rules I can\'t test/enforce so orbital view will be permitted. Maybe someone can make a craft part that disables the \'M\' key for me.

Mechjeb won\'t be mandatory but I intend to use it to take my \'pilot error\' out of any equation. Because I\'ll be using it, I suggest you also use it. If you don\'t use it then I\'ll whack a radial onto the capsule during the \'real\' flight. You can use anyone (except the \'eye\') but they all have weight/prices to consider.

There will be a financial penalty for crew deaths during the \'real\' flight. It will unlikely be enforced except if a craft design is an absolute lemon and I can\'t avoid instant explosion no matter how I pilot it. So, yes, a penalty for deaths but I don\'t expect to use it. If anyone has a dud design I don\'t expect them to submit it!

I\'ll move power sats down a level but they are the pinnacle of rocket technology. Power sats aren\'t mandatory for RC flight. Convenient - but not mandatory. Using just the KSP as the only relay station is difficult but possible. I will move the Power sat closer on the tech tree however. I\'ll also stress that RC and power sats are optional. If you don\'t wish to use these mods then you don\'t have to. You won\'t really be at a disadvantage as there will be other things you can do. Those that use RC craft won\'t need to use Zoxygen so that\'s a design/budget choice one will need to make.

Here is a snap shot of some missions you can fly for profit (or not). I will do my best re play balance but this is something no one has done before so there are no guarantee\'s!!

[table]

[tr]

[td]Mission[/td][td]Highest Payment[/td][td]Lowest Payment[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 6500m and descend safely[/td][td]$5,294[/td][td]$4,479[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 9500m and descend safely[/td][td]$6,561[/td][td]$5,552[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 14500m and descend safely[/td][td]$8,414[/td][td]$7,119[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 35000m and descend safely[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 70000m and descend safely[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach altitude of 11,400,000m and return safely[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Insert any satellite into Kerbin orbit[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Land on Mun and return[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Travel east horizontally for 600km (inter-continental travel)[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Insert Power sat into Mun orbit[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reach an \'orbit\' of 11.4 million meters[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Land a rover on Mun and return[/td][td]?[/td][td]?[/td][/tr]

[/table]

I\'m working on the missions now and are designed to be progressively harder and will require more technologies and more money to achieve. Play balance will be hard and I\'m not going to get that right all the time. The dollar figures there won\'t make much sense until you understand how much things cost. I\'ll be using the prices provided in the game so you can look at those and get an understanding of exactly how much $5000 will get you (not a lot!).

I\'ve got a price list in spreadsheet format. I\'ll make that available tomorrow. This will be a tool to help you (and me) ensure you haven\'t spent too much money. More to come!

[Guest GroundHOG-2010]

Will it be stock parts only? (because some parts like silisko 2 beta have calculated rates for the parts, but some don\'t)

[togfox]

Stock parts only I\'m afraid. For two reasons, the first is my workload and the second is for game balance. There are a lot of cheat parts (and I use the term nicely) out there and unless I check everyone I\'m not going to know. Also, for me to test the craft, I need to have everyone of them installed.

Everyone has MechJeb - or should have - and I need this to eliminate pilot error and create a level playing field.

ZO2 is for realism and adds a difficulty factor to what are normally bland missions.

Sat relay, Power sat, cart is optional but there will be missions for it. Your choice.

[Guest GroundHOG-2010]

Stock parts only I\'m afraid. For two reasons, the first is my workload and the second is for game balance. There are a lot of cheat parts (and I use the term nicely) out there and unless I check everyone I\'m not going to know. Also, for me to test the craft, I need to have everyone of them installed.

Everyone has MechJeb - or should have - and I need this to eliminate pilot error and create a level playing field.

ZO2 is for realism and adds a difficulty factor to what are normally bland missions.

Sat relay, Power sat, cart is optional but there will be missions for it. Your choice.

Can mechjeb be optional (as I see it as taking the fun away from KSP).

[togfox]

Sure. If you did use it then it would be zero weight and free cost so - sure - include it or not.

[DonLorenzo]

Looks nice so far, if you\'re looking for more missions you can also consider solar escape probes, polar or other targeted landings. Orbital rendez vous is probably hard top check and morea question of pilot skill than craft design.

Are you planning to allow for salvageable parts at all? Limits on available parts other than money?

Again, its looking good so far and I\'m looking forward to building cheap rockets

[togfox]

I hadn\'t thought of rendezvous craft but you\'re right. It would be more pilot skill.

Anything parachuting to the ground or able to land under power can be re-used next time.

I thought about implementing limited stock but that is a lot of overhead. Maybe campaign v2.

I\'ve been doing test flights for game balance purposes and I\'ve already learnt how to make super cheap rockets that can reach surprising heights.

[togfox]

So I\'m thinking the only way I can get mission reward balance right is for the community to help me. If I had a bunch of people fly the missions (successfully) using craft that is as lean as possible and send me their craft then I can see, on average, how much one can expect a mission to cost (and then calculate reward). Only then can I price the reward for the mission successfully.

For example, I have a mission objective of landing on the Mun and returning. I know how much that would cost me. I have my favourite configuration. But a sample of one is hardly a good guide. If I had five samples then I could average that and use that as a rule of thumb.

I shall ponder this some more.