[1.2.2] Netherdyne Mass Driver Mod- Version 1.3.2 is now LIVE!

[Northstar1989]

3 hours ago, Noppera-Bo said:

Guess I just need to make sure to deep freeze my Kerbals before launch.

(I find rocketry too easy without heat and g-forces. Scary as it is, plasma trails are kinda beautiful)

G-force limits aren't necessary for plasma trails.  I play without them enabled because KSP is far too glitchy to have mission success depend on whether the game creates jerky spurts in forces or is jerky with control-inputs (even with CAPS Lock on for more gentle control inputs, flying with the keyboard is kind of a mess) and I still get beautiful plasma trails with my spaceplanes and Mass Driver launches...

3 hours ago, Noppera-Bo said:

I will admit, I saw the portrayed use as an expensive confetti cannon... But I also jumped straight to contemplating merging one into my orbital shipyard design as a first leg in interplanetary transfer.

I'll just dive in and see how it works for my intentions. Once "Three Rocks Base" is fully assembled I'll report how it does.

Best luck with the shipyard Mass Driver!  Don't forget that you can also use Mass Drivers on the surface of other planets and moons though.

And, if you're playing with Extraplanetary Launchpads installed  (you mentioned an orbital shipyard) then there's nothing stopping you from building a giant Mass Driver right on the surface of a planet, to launch the refined Ore you mined there  to shipyards waiting in orbit, as well as fuel and Kerbals as necessary...  Indeed this might turn out to be one of the turning-points for offworld industry in real life- when we establish enough infrastructure on the Moon and in orbit of it to start regularly shooting raw materials to orbit from its surface via Mass Driver...

 

Regards,

Northstar

[Noppera-Bo]

7 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

 

1 hour ago, Northstar1989 said:

1 hour ago, Northstar1989 said:

 

 

[Noppera-Bo]

7 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

 

2 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

2 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

G-force limits aren't necessary for plasma trails.  I play without them enabled because KSP is far too glitchy to have mission success depend on whether the game creates jerky spurts in forces or is jerky with control-inputs (even with CAPS Lock on for more gentle control inputs, flying with the keyboard is kind of a mess) and I still get beautiful plasma trails with my spaceplanes and Mass Driver launches...

Please forgive the messiness of this post, I can't remove quotes for some reason, and I'm not downloading a new browser for one thread.

Anyways, that aside, I play with TACLS installed, so I feel turning off G-force would be hypocritical.

2 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

 

 

[dunebugmi]

Thank you for all of your hard work on this.  I'm inspired to fire KSP back up and give this a try tonight.

[memeconnoiseur]

Yeah, I've been playing around with a mass driver orbital ordnance delivery system and I have to say this mod is great!

If I wasn't so bad at predicting where the payload will hit, kerbin would already be in the palm of my hand!

[dunebugmi]

Since this thing needs to be elevated in order to get the payload underneath*, I'd like to hear about your (you the community) elevation methods.  

 

Back in the day I used a rescaled (8x maybe?) version of SQUAD's largest landing leg and it looked reasonable.  It is pretty easy to make a new rescaled landing leg using module manager- if anyone is interested I'll post the text needed or maybe a cfg file.

 

I wanted more height than that, though, and eventually found an old KSP 0.9 landing leg made by Adie123 and Sceppie.  I got it to work in 1.05, but it isn't working now.  I put a post in the mod-discussion forum about that if anyone is interested.

 

 

*(unless you're using the Hangar mod or Extraplanetary Launchpads)

 

[memeconnoiseur]

My system is sort of only one-time use as of this moment, so I use a loading mechanism inside a cargo bay underneath the mass driver array.

I also use hyper edit because it is too big to fit on a rocket.

[Northstar1989]

On Fri Mar 03 2017 at 11:56 PM, memeconnoiseur said:

My system is sort of only one-time use as of this moment, so I use a loading mechanism inside a cargo bay underneath the mass driver array.

I also use hyper edit because it is too big to fit on a rocket.

Pictures are always appreciated if you're trying to help other Kerbal engineers figure out how to position their payloads...

 

On a different note- I'm still looking for any/all help in developing a model for this mod with a higher length:diameter ratio...  The thread is in the OP if you're interested.

 

Regards,

Northstar

[memeconnoiseur]

13 hours ago, Northstar1989 said:

Pictures are always appreciated if you're trying to help other Kerbal engineers figure out how to position their payloads...

 

On a different note- I'm still looking for any/all help in developing a model for this mod with a higher length:diameter ratio...  The thread is in the OP if you're interested.

 

Regards,

Northstar

 

I don't have an Imgur account so I don't really have a way to put pictures in my posts

[dboi88]

A bit of advice on the way you've packaged the mod. You're currently loading 5 copies of the model and textures into the game needlessly. There's also no need to include 5 copies of the model and texture in the download. I know it's a very small mod anyway but it could be 5 times smaller than it currently is 700kb vs 3.5mb.

It seems you duplicated the whole part folder 5 times when you added the extra sizes. What you want to do is put all the .cfg's, one copy of the model and one copy of the textures all into one folder. As you won't be changing the names of any parts this won't break any installs either. I'd also recommend converting to .dds files for the textures as well, they're even smaller(i don't think this is needed in game anymore but it still will reduce the size of the download even further).

[AaronLS]

On 2/22/2017 at 1:49 PM, Jivaii said:

I now wonder, can this be used while in orbit, and does it experience a reactionary force upon firing? I'd love to use this for accelerating probes at distant planets.

Mine does. I apply a force to the object, and also an equal and opposite force to the ring.  Generally your ring vessel should be much higher mass than the target, so it only deorbits slightly, and the smaller object accelerates alot.  My idea was to attach a solar sail that would be deployed between firings to restore the ring's orbit and prepare it for the next target.

// We need to make sure we apply the force to the center of mass (AddForce finds the center of the vessel, which is not the same as center of mass and thus will cause rotation)
otherVessel.rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(forceVector, vesselPosition);
// and apply equal&opposite to ourself
this.vessel.rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(-forceVector, this.vessel.findWorldCenterOfMass());

https://github.com/AaronLS/KerbalMagnetMod/blob/v00.01-alpha/KerbalMagnetMod/MagneticRingModule.cs

Sorry life has demotivated me for awhile and I never really cleaned this up properly. I also kind of got stuck trying to find an elegant way to setup the nodes on the rings. The nodes floating in the center can be confusing, like fairing interstage nodes often do(I've seen the people ask about this many times on reddit in regards to fairing interstage nodes). Nodes around the edge of the ring look more sensible, but are misleading because only one node will connect and the rings will be floppy without struts.

Edited March 12, 2017 by AaronLS

[DanielNL]

What is the max speed that can be reached by using this mod?

[dunebugmi]

On 3/7/2017 at 6:32 PM, Northstar1989 said:

Pictures are always appreciated if you're trying to help other Kerbal engineers figure out how to position their payloads...

 

On a different note- I'm still looking for any/all help in developing a model for this mod with a higher length:diameter ratio...  The thread is in the OP if you're interested.

 

Regards,

Northstar

I highly recommend the Hangar mod for positioning or repositioning payloads.  It is helpful in orbit to dock, capture, and reposition a payload, and it is helpful in the surface to fire at an angle (the hangar acts as the barrel of a cannon, preventing the payload from tipping or falling out). Here are some screenshots of how I use it: 

 

One other thing: I often use module manager to add a crude command module to the main mass driver unit.  There isn't a pretty or convenient place to put a command module and it makes sense to me that the main unit would have this function built in.

[FS3D]

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this... But I'm having trouble getting the mod to work with any build of KSP 1.2.2

The parts appear just fine in the editors. There are no options in the Action Groups Editor for any of the parts, but having never been able to get it working, I don't know if this is normal or not.

The models load just fine on launch.

They also have an arm accelerator option. However, no amount of clicking works to arm the accelerator. The options do not change. Nothing happens.

I have tried this with a sole accelerator, and an accelerator chained to its' network counterpart. I have tried this with and without a coupled mass to propel. I have done this with huge stacks of batteries to ensure electric charge, with and without cheats etc. There is always a probe core attached directly to the ring for control.

I have tried this on my standard KSP build with other mods, as well as on standalone KSP 1.2.2 64 bit, and even the 32 bit build I haven't had to use since 64 bit was made available the second time around. I have tried it on 1.2.9 (although I suspected it would crash, which it did) and 1.2.2 (where the above all applies). I have yet to try it on prior builds, though I suspect it will either work, proving something is out with 1.2.2 on my desktop PC, or it won't, proving that my build of Windows is at fault.

I'm on the latest build of Windows 10.

Are there any dependencies that aren't listed in the README file? I haven't seen any, and I ensure that the folder structure is replicated exactly as it appears in the GameData folder so I can't see that being an issue.

[DanielNL]

On 19.3.2017 at 2:51 AM, DanielNL said:

What is the max speed that can be reached by using this mod?

Can sb. pleeease answer my question?

[dunebugmi]

22 hours ago, DanielNL said:

Can sb. pleeease answer my question?

In KSP 0.9, before drag and heated re-entry, I could launch small projectiles at more than 10000 m/s.  KSP has changed since then, and maybe the mod too.  Why do you ask?

[DStaal]

22 hours ago, DanielNL said:

Can sb. pleeease answer my question?

Basically: there's no speed built into the part.  Any speed limits are the limits of the game physics itself.

[DanielNL]

2 hours ago, dunebugmi said:

In KSP 0.9, before drag and heated re-entry, I could launch small projectiles at more than 10000 m/s.  KSP has changed since then, and maybe the mod too.  Why do you ask?

I want to reach 8 km/s in the atmosphere, that's why (kinda trying to "manually" steer this thing in KSP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UGM-133_Trident_II ) (For myself to get an impression of such high speeds)

Edited March 27, 2017 by DanielNL

[Northstar1989]

On Sun Mar 26 2017 at 3:41 PM, FS3D said:

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this... But I'm having trouble getting the mod to work

-SNIPPED-

I sympathize with you, but I'm going to need more than an extremely lengthy description of all the versions you've tried to try and solve your problem.

The mod works with 1.2.2 for most players- so I doubt it's a problem with the mod itself or your KSP build.  As for how you tried to USE the mod in-game, a picture is worth a thousand words: could you please show some pictures of the steps you took to try and launch a payload?  Showing right-click menus, decouplers, etc. would help at least confirm that you are trying to use the part correctly in the first place...

You know the payload should NOT be coupled, for instance, right?  You explicitly said you tried this "with and without a coupled mass" which reads yo me as you tried with or withoit a payload which was physically attached to the Mass Driver, which won't work period.

The issues you are having with nothing happening when you click "arm accelerator" usually indicate that the Mass Driver is not recognizing the presence of a payload or cannot lock onto one- which usually means the player has either not positioned the payload close enough to the loading-end of the Mass Driver (or worse, is positioning the payload at the FIRING end, or has the parts facing different directions throughout the stack) or that they have made the mistake of not positioning a *SEPARATE VESSEL* as the payload.

Positioning a separate payload is most easily accomplished at the KSC by starting the payload as part of the driver and decoupling it with a decoupler or docking-port before firing (note that sometimes players can have issues with the Mass Driver trying to lock onto the decoupler instead of the payload if it is a similar distance to the driver, such as by sitting on the vessel nose rather than falling to the launchpad, and tis can cause the driver to fail to arm as the decoupler will usually be dancing around due to longstanding stock KSP physics-glitches and the driver can't get a good lock...)

 

So, make sure you are trying to use the part correctly to start with.  I *strongly* advise carefully studying the other pictures on this thread, and posting some yourself of how you are trying to use the part.  By far the most common reason for the driver "not working" is a new user simply not positioning the payload correctly...

 

Regards,

Northstar

Edited March 30, 2017 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

On Sun Mar 12 2017 at 1:24 AM, AaronLS said:

Mine does. I apply a force to the object, and also an equal and opposite force to the ring.  Generally your ring vessel should be much higher mass than the target, so it only deorbits slightly, and the smaller object accelerates alot.  My idea was to attach a solar sail that would be deployed between firings to restore the ring's orbit and prepare it for the next target.

// We need to make sure we apply the force to the center of mass (AddForce finds the center of the vessel, which is not the same as center of mass and thus will cause rotation)
otherVessel.rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(forceVector, vesselPosition);
// and apply equal&opposite to ourself
this.vessel.rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(-forceVector, this.vessel.findWorldCenterOfMass());

https://github.com/AaronLS/KerbalMagnetMod/blob/v00.01-alpha/KerbalMagnetMod/MagneticRingModule.cs

Sorry life has demotivated me for awhile and I never really cleaned this up properly. I also kind of got stuck trying to find an elegant way to setup the nodes on the rings. The nodes floating in the center can be confusing, like fairing interstage nodes often do(I've seen the people ask about this many times on reddit in regards to fairing interstage nodes). Nodes around the edge of the ring look more sensible, but are misleading because only one node will connect and the rings will be floppy without struts.

Applying force to the center of the vessel, rather than the center of mass, is realistic to how a mass driver would actually work.  If you don't want it to rotate, you need to keep your vessels symmetrical- it doesn't experience aero drag while passing through the ring, so the distribution of mass along the axis passing through the mass driver rings is irrelevant- only asymmetries relative to this axis can cause rotation, and would need to be VERY carefully controlled for in a real-life mass driver...

As for recoil, I would of course appreciate your help in integrating a more precise solution like yours into the code for this mod (recoil seems to be erratic and not always equal and opposite in the original).  Of course, asI've said several times, I would love to bring you on as a mod co-author, provided you could abide by a few basic principles like putting realism first in mod balance and performance where practical...

 

Regards,

Northstar

Edited March 30, 2017 by Northstar1989

[soysauceO3o]

I am using this mod in ksp version 1.2.2. When i put the mass driver upside with a rover under it, it shows the amount of thrust it can produce but it shows no option to initiate the countdown or anything

and it doesnt say anything else... i launched a small rover that could fit in it but still got no results. As stated before, this is on 1.2.2 and would appreciate the help

Edited March 31, 2017 by soysauceO3o
no image

[SYDWAD]

You mean like a texture model? If you send me some reference pics I can make you whatever you want in blender at some point.

[dunebugmi]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:18 AM, soysauceO3o said:

... i launched a small rover that could fit in it but still got no results.

Start from scratch: go to the VAB and build your mass driver again, this time do not angle it.  At the bottom node of the mass driver attach a stack decoupler, and to that attach a simple payload like the command module.  Launch it, detach the payload and then arm the mass driver.  It should work.  If it does, then you can start adjusting how far away from the mass driver entry point you put your payload (the mass driver will not arm if the payload is not inside it).  If you're interested in firing at an angle, try using Allista's hangar mod (use a hangar that fits inside the mass driver).

 

Edit: Also the mass driver module you have highlighted in your screenshot is the network node.  You need to have a command node in addition to the network node.  right click on the command node and look for "arm" etc.

Edited April 5, 2017 by dunebugmi

[dunebugmi]

On 3/26/2017 at 3:41 PM, FS3D said:

They also have an arm accelerator option. However, no amount of clicking works to arm the accelerator. The options do not change. Nothing happens.

Could you please read my post to SoySauce and try that?  Also please post a screenshot if possible.  In order for this thing to work you need: the main mass driver (not the network node), a payload that is loose (a separate and independent vessel), and a payload that is inside the barrel of the mass driver.  Are you absolutely certain your payload was detached/independent?  To check : try using a payload like a hex or octo remote command module, with a gyro and a battery attached, and see if you can roll the thing around with the gyro.  

[Northstar1989]

On Fri Mar 31 2017 at 0:53 AM, SYDWAD said:

You mean like a texture model? If you send me some reference pics I can make you whatever you want in blender at some point.

Umm, not completely clear which post you're replying to there?

Anyways, I started a thread dedicated to the model revamp.  You can find the link to it in the OP.  It would be slightly easier for me to discuss that there, so it doesn't get mixed up with bug reports and questions players have for me about when I'll be updating the mod and such...

 

Regards,

Northstar