Career too hard?

[Crusher8000]

At the start of career you can only accept 2 missions at a time and rockets can't be over 30 parts and 18 tons. The first missions are easy, getting into orbit is manageable but reaching the moon is impossible (afaik), the visual survey missions are only useful if you have the basic space plane parts (wheels come quite late in R&D and sure you can use a rocket for it but that's difficult to do and impossible if you have to do multiple ground surveys) but you need quite a lot of science for it and to get science you need funds, to get funds you need to do missions but for the missions you need to have the right parts.

To be hounest I don't like testing parts so I avoid those missions, it's tedious, you need to reach a certain height at a certain speed and have the correct part selected in your stage. It wouldn't be the first time I reach all the factors but can't complete the mission because I already had the part on so I have to put it in a next stage but by then I'm either too slow or too high.

The game is just in beta so a lot of stuff will be added and balanced but I feel for now the career is too difficult, the limitations put on you sometimes feel artificial and are in the way of completing missions you normally have no problem with. The first missions (from start to, let's say, getting into orbit) should give you enough funds and science to upgrade a couple of buildings and unlock the more important parts like wheels, wings and bigger tanks.

[rdwulfe]

I'm all for parts tests, really, but I think they should give better gains than the piddly sums they do, to make them useful. Their difficulty needs to be scaled with better payout. Hard is easy, if the payout is huge. But the constant "HEy, test this part for bubblegum change! You have 2 seconds to hit the button! Hahaha, watch this. Hey Jeb, he's gonna do it! Let's go watch!" is kind of a frustration. Those missions should also become less common/more difficult as the campaign progresses. You've been to Duna? Go test stuff on Duna for us. Not Oh hey, could you test the LV909 here once more? You've done it 20 times.. but... uh, do it again!

Meh.

I love KSP. I adore it. It just needs tweaking.

[Caelib]

Yeah, it took a bit of grinding through contracts to get enough funds to upgrade some of the facilities ... like getting maneuver nodes ... game is virtually unplayable for me without them!

[electronicfox]

I both hate and love the new career. I love that Im not able to fly right through the tech tree in a day, but hate the piddly sums of money rewards for most of the missions. I honestly hadnt even realised that I needed to upgrade the tracking station to get patched conics and maneuver nodes until I tried my first mission to the Mun, and by that point, despite having done several part testing missions, I didnt have enough to upgrade it.

Now I've maxed the lvl1 tech tree, and dont have near enough funds to upgrade it. All I can do is grind testing missions untill I do. Or aerial survey missions, which are also rediculous.

Go fly around the world, check out these areas and we'll give you 3 science and some pocket money.

[andruszkow]

The first building I upgraded was the launch pad. Grinding for the launch pad is more than doable (depending on level, I just play normal).

After that I spent some science getting some decouplers and LV909. Did the Mun-mission without maneuvre nodes. I brought Jeb, he was a 1-star pilot at that point, the pilot-functions works well for pro/retrograde maneuvres. Some orbits got a bit wonky, but they were orbits none the less

Spent the science from the Mun-mission to upgrade quite a bit of the tech tree. I only need one 90 science upgrade, before I've maxed out the first Science building limits.

[andruszkow]

Until you go reusable, you just really have to be conservative on the part counts. All the small stuff, solar panels, antennas etc, place it on the part you intend to land.

[rdwulfe]

Has anyone managed the polar (and other specific orbit) missions without maneuver nodes? I don't see how those are possible without tons of extra fuel and a LOT of maneuvers to tweak things. I sure never get them the first try.

[andruszkow]

Well, with the satellite missions, you do get the desired orbit from the contract marked in map-mode. I lacked some parts for doing the mission correctly.

Word of advise: Do not attach your newly built satellite to the top of your pod with a stack decoupler. I got into perfect orbit, completely not thinking of the fact, that the stack decoupler would drasticly alter the orbit of the satellite, once ejected...

[rdwulfe]

Heh. The solution there is to put a bit of stationkeeping on the satellite, andruszkow.

[andruszkow]

I could have put a LV909 and a near empty small fuel tank on the satellite to fix the orbit afterwards, but that was a bit overkill to be honest

[jediwannabe]

I thought it was maybe a little too hard at first. But then changed my way of thinking. In the past careers money was never really an issue and if you knew what you were doing you could unlock the tech tree REALLY fast. The idea of starting a new space program from the ground up is now how career mode feels like (not starting out being able to build 1000 ton 600 part beast in the first moments of a budding space program). If you now anything about the actual history of space exploration the way career mode is set up now reflects it better.

How I started my career:

Build simple ships and try to salvage as much as possible from them after each mission. Only accept contracts you know you can do. TAKE YOUR TIME. I did a little grind of the "gather science data from around Kerbin" missions, just build a really simple rocket that goes straight up to at least the edge of space do a crew report (even a zero science report counts) and then float back down. I did this 5-6 times each time making about 25,000. I also used the strategy to convert some reputation to science so I got about 18 science each run as well. Overall I'm very happy with the changes, it feels like I'm building from the ground up.

[Frank327]

I'm playing on moderate and it's exactly the experienced-player-but-not-scott-manly difficulty level I expected it to be. I just skipped the kerbin survey missions though. Boring and you need 180 science. Much better to upgrade launch pad + recruitment centre, get batteries and the longer fuel tanks and go to the mun. I never used the tip "burn for the mun once it shows up on the horizon" before but it works perfectly.

Also I found out that reputation isn't useless. The more reputation you've got, the more challenging missions become available. It was actually a big hit to start a program of rep -> science as suddenly I didn't have a mission for a polar satellite to duna (which I totally could've done) anymore but an equatorial satellite at the mun. The coolest mission I've got now is a permanent base on the surface of minmus.

[Starwhip]

Here's what I think: "Hard" Mode needs to be hard, not just more grind-y. Give trickier contracts, with narrower parameters. Make contract failures more detrimental. Other than that, it just needs some tweaking on the building upgrade costs and contract rewards, one or the other.

[Pope_Gregory_IX]

Hi,

As a fairly "casual" player playing in normal difficulty mode, I find the new career mode much better balanced than before. Until now, I've played career for a bit, got bored and switched over to sandbox. I think with the new crew experience and KSC upgrades, it feels like career will keep me entertained for much longer and has a better learning curve.

Cheers,

Adam

[Starwhip]

Hi,

As a fairly "casual" player playing in normal difficulty mode, I find the new career mode much better balanced than before. Until now, I've played career for a bit, got bored and switched over to sandbox. I think with the new crew experience and KSC upgrades, it feels like career will keep me entertained for much longer and has a better learning curve.

Cheers,

Adam

Indeed, the only one that really needs a rebalance is the "Hard" difficulty. The others don't really require grinding.

[Yellowburn10]

It seems that a proper "hard" mode is tough to completely iron out. Like just last update, people were complaining that hard mode is too EASY, which I find ironic. It seems though that .90 has a far better hard mode balance than .25.

[katateochi]

I like the limitations to start with, but I don't like how tight funds are and how long it takes to build them up.

I really like the lack of maneuver nodes! I feel it makes me better at using the nav-ball to do orbital adjustments and doing by-eye rendezvous is really satisfying (and also reminiscent of previous versions when that was how it had to be done).

One thing that annoys me about the orbits in map mode to start with is that you can't click on the Ap or Pe and get the values to stay shown. You have to keep your mouse over the marker and you can't have both Ap and Pe shown together. That doesn't feel like a realistic limitation, more a limitation because it could be limited.

The lack of EVA is pretty nice and quite realistic, but having to upgrade the astronaut complex to get it is annoying. You really don't need more than 5 crew for ages but you have to upgrade to have 12 just to be able to go EVA. I think EVA should be something that you research in the RnD complex as it's about developing space-suit technologies. Not having to upgrade the whole RnD building, but more like a part unlock (requiring both money and science).

My other issue with career is its all to easy to make a mistake and then be totally up-creek sans-paddle. Having saved some funds I accidentally clicked upgrade on the launch pad and then I was pretty much broke and there's no undo (I usually run an auto-save backup tool, but I'd not turned it on yet, doh!). So I'm either going to scrap that career and start again, or I'm considering "borrowing" some money (with a save file edit) and then I'll pay it back later plus interest. Maybe there should be a Kerbal loan service? Pay off your upgrades in monthly installments!

[Tail_TL]

Career isn't hard nor grindy. Instead of whining that its hard and unbalanced maybe you should learn new tactics and/or new ways on how to progress throughout career. I may sound harsh/mad and thats because I'm so sick of modern games being too "Casual" or too easy.. This game is about Rockets and space exploration.. the last thing this game should be is "being easy".

Sorry for being rude, I'm just afraid that squad might make this game easy and un-fun again. Just play career mode on easy mode if you're having a hard time, you can tweak pretty much everything in the difficulty settings, you can make it so easy it will feel like a sandbox gamemode again if thats what you like.

Edit: and also going to the Mun without any maneuver nodes isn't hard at all, I've done it 3 times without any fails or reloads. with 30 part limited ships, although landing there was a bit tricky, but you don't need to land for the first few visits, you can get science just from orbiting it anyway.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Tail_TL

[ArmchairGravy]

It's ridiculous that I have to grind hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade buildings just so I can begin doing anything interesting. The costs or the payouts need serious balancing at lower difficulty levels.

[NBZ]

Here is an idea for Squad:

Currently on Easy and Normal, one does not have to pay for access to parts

Make it so that on Easy, one gains access to a part after testing it.

And make [Run test] automatic upon reaching correct situation (at least for non-decouplers).

[jediwannabe]

I consider myself pretty seasoned at KSP but not hardcore. This career mode has made me better at the game. A better pilot, better planning, more efficient designs. Gone are the days of just throwing a few more fuel tanks on, you have to think about cost, weight, and number of parts. I do agree that you can very easily paint yourself into a corner with no way out. I had to start a career over do to taking a contract I couldn't possible do and losing money. One thing that would be super helpful is more info about the part that needs testing in the contracts. There have been a few Times were I saved the game took a part testing contract realized what part it was then loaded my game from before I took the contract.

[Xavven]

Career isn't hard nor grindy. Instead of whining that its hard and unbalanced maybe you should learn new tactics and/or new ways on how to progress throughout career. I may sound harsh/mad and thats because I'm so sick of modern games being too "Casual" or too easy.. This game is about Rockets and space exploration.. the last thing this game should be is "being easy".

Sorry for being rude, I'm just afraid that squad might make this game easy and un-fun again. Just play career mode on easy mode if you're having a hard time, you can tweak pretty much everything in the difficulty settings, you can make it so easy it will feel like a sandbox gamemode again if thats what you like.

Edit: and also going to the Mun without any maneuver nodes isn't hard at all, I've done it 3 times without any fails or reloads. with 30 part limited ships, although landing there was a bit tricky, but you don't need to land for the first few visits, you can get science just from orbiting it anyway.

I'm in a agreement. Games that aren't challenging lose my interest quickly. Hard mode is just right for many of us -- it doesn't feel too grindy to me. The different difficulty levels are there to cater to different tastes, so if Hard doesn't suit you, dial the difficulty back.

I'm curious to know what difficulty level the OP is on. IMHO, getting to Mun without patched conics isn't impossible. It's very, very doable for veterans of the game. Therefore, if you can't do it yet, then it's; 1) an opportunity to learn how to do it; and 2) something that's "Hard". Pretty appropriate for Hard career, I'd say!

[Greenfire32]

At the start of career you can only accept 2 missions at a time and rockets can't be over 30 parts and 18 tons.

First order of business: upgrade the launchpad. Makes the early-game much more manageable. The other building upgrades are nice and all, but what good is being able to plant flags and go EVA if you cant even get anywhere other than LKO.

Also, if you can, go for jet parts first as it makes the survey contracts less of a pain. I had to do two survey contracts with rockets (which isn't terribly hard), but it would be easier if I didn't have to aim for pinpoint landing-style flights.

[Rolanvorxariat]

I like the new career. I've always been the guy who refused to start on day one and would warp three weeks until I launched my first spacecraft, and would always wait and do things in a realistic progression. When .25 came out, I would set the science to 90 so I. Could get probe cores right off the back since I didn't like starting manned. I like the fact that you have to upgrade buildings, but what I really think needs tweaking is the contract system. Just the explanations drive me crazy, and the penalties are too big. You really should get more funds from contracts.

[WuphonsReach]

Moderate difficulty user here -- it's too grindy.

I have about 100k in the bank, but I need something like 465k or 750k to upgrade the science facility to the next level. Trying to grind out that amount of funds off of survey / sub-orbit parts tests is too much.

#1 - Parts testing contracts need better payouts across the board. They are competing for my two precious contract slots against all the other contracts, so I will just decline them repeatedly until I get something better. For "static" parts testing where you roll it out to the pad and get points, that means a minimum reward of 2000 + cost of the part. For "in-flight", that means a minimum of 5k + cost of the part. The sub-orbital payouts are mostly sane, giving about 15k reward.

#2 - Three tiers of buildings is not enough. The jumps are too huge and the costs are too high as a result to go from one tier to the next. There needs to be six tiers and the last 2 tiers should be mostly optional. On normal mode it should cost 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k, 200k, 500k for the tiers.

For the VAB/SPH, that would mean part count limits of (30, 60, 90, 150, 300, unlimited). For the runway / launchpad mass limits of (20t, 40t, 80t, 200t, 400t, unlimited).