Kerbal abilities and XP

[harlikwin]

While I like the Kerbal experience idea and I think the Pilots are currently done ok, I think the engineers and scientists could use some work.

Suggestion 1

Scientists

Make them required to operate certain scientific equipment, i.e. you need a level 1 scientist to run a goo canister, and a level 2 scientists to run the science Jr and so forth. And maybe the still give a science bonus

Also I think they are currently broken as they don't provide a bonus in my games as described.

Engineers, I don't really know what they could be fixing, but basically the same sort of thing for each level.

Pilots

Perhaps at high levels they could provide mechjeb like autopilot functions like landing/ascent/manuver nodes etc.

Also, perhaps give basic pilot functions or science/engineer functions to high level kerbals. I.e. at level 4 Pilots get level 1 Sci and/or engineering. And at level 5 they get the other skills at level 2? Same for Scientists and engineers getting pilot skills. As a way to represent cross training.

Alternately

Make operating certain equipment or certain pilot functions cost a certain amount of experience. But each kerbal can pick an choose their skill sets, (this may be too complicated, but would add some realism in the sense of the amount of cross-training that goes on in real world space programs).

MY .02.

[Anquietas314]

Suggestion 1

Scientists

Make them required to operate certain scientific equipment, i.e. you need a level 1 scientist to run a goo canister, and a level 2 scientists to run the science Jr and so forth. And maybe the still give a science bonus

Also I think they are currently broken as they don't provide a bonus in my games as described.

Requiring a scientist to be on board the ship to use instruments seems pretty silly.... especially in light of the fact you have no SAS control without a pilot or a probe. Plus: what would be the use of probes if they couldn't use science instruments?! Also, are you suggesting we be required to send a manned lander to Eve to do surface science? I for one would hate that.

Pilots

Perhaps at high levels they could provide mechjeb like autopilot functions like landing/ascent/manuver nodes etc.

This on the other hand is a great idea! It should only be available at level 5 though (perhaps level 6 if one were added?), and I'm not sure about generating maneuver nodes for you. That might make the game quite boring.

Also, perhaps give basic pilot functions or science/engineer functions to high level kerbals. I.e. at level 4 Pilots get level 1 Sci and/or engineering. And at level 5 they get the other skills at level 2? Same for Scientists and engineers getting pilot skills. As a way to represent cross training.

Yeah that would be pretty cool, might also be cool to make it so they can "learn" from other kerbals in their crew (so a pilot would gain science abilities after flying with scientists a lot, etc)

Alternately

Make operating certain equipment or certain pilot functions cost a certain amount of experience. But each kerbal can pick an choose their skill sets, (this may be too complicated, but would add some realism in the sense of the amount of cross-training that goes on in real world space programs).

Probably too complicated, especially given how *ahem* certain players (danny, I'm looking at you...) are a bit careless with their kerbals sometimes

[harlikwin]

Requiring a scientist to be on board the ship to use instruments seems pretty silly.... especially in light of the fact you have no SAS control without a pilot or a probe. Plus: what would be the use of probes if they couldn't use science instruments?! Also, are you suggesting we be required to send a manned lander to Eve to do surface science? I for one would hate that.

Simple fix as well, make the probe body limited to certain types of science experiments. Which also makes sense in terms of being able to build more advanced probes/bodies. (also add some pilotage skills to probe bodies).

I guess the balance issue there is how to incentivize the use of kerbals for some things versus probes for others. IRL its always cheaper and usually easier to send a probe... But that is less fun than sending Jeb.

[Anquietas314]

Simple fix as well, make the probe body limited to certain types of science experiments. Which also makes sense in terms of being able to build more advanced probes/bodies.

Well, okay, but then you have a new problem: probe bodies unlock at roughly the same rate science experiments do, which kindof defeats the point of any sort of system like that. Plus, from a practical point of view, most of the experiments are just numerical data readouts. Why would a probe not be able to handle this? goo/materials bay maybe, but then... don't the Mars rovers have similar sorts of experiments? they manage just fine.

[harlikwin]

Well I suppose you are right, but if you want realism, vs kerbalism then probes are the way to go IRL.

I am also assuming the tech tree is not in its final form as well as it is somewhat problematic and there are various proposals to fix/re-balance some of that.

One thing that could make Kerbal Scientists attractive is a science bonus compared to probes, as well as keeping some experiments Kerbal only. I.e. its easy enough to slap a thermometer and barometer on a probe and transmit data. But you need kerbals to run Science Jr's and goo units and make those experiments provide more science anyhow (i.e swap the science part order and sci generated). Or surface sample return missions (only kerbals can do that now right? personally I hardly ever use sats)

I.e.

New sci tech order

Thermometer (probe1 /any kerbal)

Pressure sensor (probe2 /any kerbal)

Goo unit (Sci Kerbal lev 1 only)

Sci Jr (Sci Kerbal lev2-3+)

Particle detector (probe 3/Sci kerbal lev3)

Or something like that.

[Anquietas314]

One thing that could make Kerbal Scientists attractive is a science bonus compared to probes, as well as keeping some experiments Kerbal only.

Well, generally you bring the kerbals back and just have probes transmit (I do anyway)... so that's sortof covered already. Then you've got crew reports, EVA reports, surface samples...

Or surface sample return missions (only kerbals can do that now right? personally I hardly ever use sats).

These are already in the game as of 0.90

[harlikwin]

I guess my point with this was to make using kerbals more interesting than what exists with the experience system now. There is very little reason currently to use a scientist or engineer, sure if you have spare seats why not, but if Jeb can do all the science about as well why bother. Or why bother even sending a kerbal to do science when a probe can do it. In my campaign game I have not bothered to level up any of the kerbals beside pilots for this reason, I have yet to need the repack chutes functionality yet but I guess I'll get an engineer on a few flights to help out with that once I need it. But aside from some paltry science bonus that AFAIK doesn't actually work (bug) the science kerbals are largely not needed.

[Anquietas314]

You should of course bear in mind this is only the first iteration of kerbal experience, plus going by the dev blogs they had a veritable mountain of stuff to do for this release besides that. No doubt 0.91 will bring improvements

[harlikwin]

Yes, thats why I posted this as a suggestion for one or two ways they could go with it.