Pre-Munar Landing Anonymous - A support group

[maltesh]

Something you might want to try if you\'re having trouble getting a reasonable payload into Munar orbit is the Asparagus Stalk Booster setup, mentioned by Klopchuck.

What we\'ve got there is a seven-booster lifter stage, With a central LV-45 gimbaled engine, surrounded by six other boosters (using the non-gimbaled LV-30). the outer boosters are linked with fuel lines to drain in the following fashion.

[spoiler: Booster linkage]

On flight, in the above diagram all seven engines start out draining from the S4 tanks, and then the S4 tanks and their attatched engines are dropped. The remaining 5 engines drain from the still-full S3 tanks, until they are empty and dropped. Then 3 engines drain from the still-full S2 tanks, until you\'re left with the central engine (S1), whose tanks are still full.

As a result, you get high thrust off the pad when you need it most, and get rid of deadweight tanks frequently.

If you don\'t get the fuel routing right, your spacecraft will become very unbalanced fairly quickly. If you don\'t get the staging right, you\'ll probably wind up detatching a still-burning booster which will probably hit and destroy your rocket.

But if you do get it right, you\'ll probably be on orbit with more fuel and less rocket than you\'re used to having, which means more options when you\'re trying to land.

In testing, the rocket in the first image entered the Munar SOI with 2 2/3 tanks of fuel left in the central booster, and still had quite a bit of fuel left in it when I threw the central booster at the Mun to check surface altitude in the landing zone.

[Anachronda]

Any landing you can walk away from, eh? \'Course, in this case you\'re walking away on the Mun, which is quite a ways from home. Clearly, I still have much work left to do.

[madmat]

That IS a landing, I\'m sure it\'s landed like that so Jeb can open his window and take soil samples!! Science is a finicky thing, yes?

[Anachronda]

Out of RCS fuel this time, so I couldn\'t do anything about my horizontal velocity. A bit more exciting, but Jeb can still take his soil sample.

I\'ll get it one of these days...

[vexx32]

You can usually add a couple of RCS tanks to a rocket without upsetting its thrust/weight ratio enough to make the Mun unreachable.

[madmat]

Rescue mission arrives to find a command pod on it\'s side,,Full to the brim with Munar soil, with 3 kerbal heads poking out of the dirt, Jeb with a wry gin on his face stating ' Another sucessful mission ' 8)

[Anachronda]

Silly me, thought Munday might be a lucky day for a Mun landing. Arrived with plenty of RCS fuel and plenty of the other kind, too, but managed to set down on a slope. Jeb can *still* take his soil sample, but I don\'t know how he\'s going to get it home.

This one\'s an anaglyph, so you\'ll want to dig out your red/blue 3D glasses.

At least Bill, Jeb, and Bob have a nice view of a Munar Kerbolrise as they await rescue.

[Rickenbacker]

Something you might want to try if you\'re having trouble getting a reasonable payload into Munar orbit is the Asparagus Stalk Booster setup, mentioned by Klopchuck.

Interesting! I came up with this design on my own, after lots and lots of failures . My current favorite Mun rocket, the Muna 2, uses it. It\'s massively overbuilt, but that helps me if I screw up on my way to the Mun. What I do is use the first two stages to almost get into orbit, so that when I drop the second stage it falls back to Kerbin and crashes (it usually has quite a bit of fuel left when this happens, but keep reading), then I use the third to get to the Mun. After braking me to a landing, the third stage is ejected and hits the Mun - voila! No garbage in orbit .

A Mun lander really needs only an engine and the legs, just don\'t land on a slope, the current landing legs are very easy to snap off on uneven ground. And one tank of fuel is more than enough to both land and return to Kerbin. Using the third stage of the Muna 2 to brake until my trajectory intersects the Munar surface helps, but it\'s not necessary.

[VincentMcConnell]

Out of RCS fuel this time.

So? You can land with no RCS, as I have had to do many times when I forgot to bring thrusters... Just control the pitch, yaw and roll so that you are always aligned on retrograde...

[Anachronda]

So? You can land with no RCS, as I have had to do many times when I forgot to bring thrusters...

A *coordinated* person can land with no thrusters. A klutz like me is doing good to not leave a crater every time I try to land.

[Anachronda]

SUCCESS AT LAST!

After all the trouble I had getting enough fuel to the Mun, I had so much left that the puny engine on the bottom of my Munar lander couldn\'t lift me off the surface; it just sat there rocking back and forth like an overly heavy booster on the pad.

Goosed the RCS to get it off the surface and it got home just fine.

[Kosmo-not]

After all the trouble I had getting enough fuel to the Mun, I had so much left that the puny engine on the bottom of my Munar lander couldn\'t lift me off the surface; it just sat there rocking back and forth like an overly heavy booster on the pad.

Sounds like you have a stuck to surface bug going on there. That engine has plenty of thrust to lift you up.

[Zephram Kerman]

Sometimes when testing a lander at KSC, I\'ll use the legs to help un-stick from the launch pad.

[Mynorus]

Tip: If your lander gets stuck, floor it and raise the landing gears. Then, if still not lifting off, put the landing gears back down.

[BlackShadow03]

Sounds like you have a stuck to surface bug going on there. That engine has plenty of thrust to lift you up.

I guess that means he really -stuck- the landing! ;D

*BAH DUM, TISH*

[vexx32]

Sounds like you have a stuck to surface bug going on there. That engine has plenty of thrust to lift you up.

Aye, my standard Mun lander is about three times that size... and it still takes off again just fine with two full small fuel tanks and only a single small engine. Never heard of a sticky surface bug happening on the Mun before though.

[antipilor]

Is it weird that I don\'t use RCS thrusters?

[rkman]

Is it weird that I don\'t use RCS thrusters?

Not at all.

What\'s weird is that some people don\'t use ASAS (nor mechjeb). Very Kerbal, but weird.

[GoodGuy]

Not at all.

What\'s weird is that some people don\'t use ASAS (nor mechjeb). Very Kerbal, but weird.

just so you know, mechjeb isn\'t a requirement.... people these days are just lazy

[vexx32]

Mechjeb? Bah. If I\'m gonna land on the Mun, I want to do it properly, without your silly autopilot.

[Cooly568]

Is it weird that I don\'t use RCS thrusters?

I don\'t either.

DEAL WITH IT

[Rich]

Mechjeb? Bah. If I\'m gonna land on the Mun, I want to do it properly, without your silly autopilot.

Agreed, if you are going to use Mechjeb to land, you might as well just teleport your way there in the persistence file.

[jyoumon]

5000+ pieces of debris

250+ builds

200+ failures

150+ mun/ kerbol crashes

125 mid-atmosphere collisions

35 ACTUAL successful returns

just 1 perfect mun landing 8)

and about to be one more successful return!

Thank you Mechjeb! you saved my bacon this burn!

course..it aint kerbal if it dont break something 8)

[Zephram Kerman]

pieces of debris: 5000+

builds: 250+

failures: 200+

mun/ kerbol crashes: 150+

mid-atmosphere collisions: 125

ACTUAL successful returns: 35

just 1 perfect mun landing: priceless! 8)

Fixed that for ya. \'What\'s in your rocket?\'

[rkman]

just so you know, mechjeb isn\'t a requirement.... people these days are just lazy

What made you think that i think mechjeb is a requirement?

Mechjeb? Bah. If I\'m gonna land on the Mun, I want to do it properly, without your silly autopilot.

It can be used as a navigation computer/pilot assist, as an alternative to ASAS. I\'ve never used mechjeb\'s auto land function.

Point is that without some sort of automated attitude control, piloting a craft is very labor intensive. I don\'t recommend it for noobs.