Better slider settings for Hard mode

[zarakon]

The problem with Hard mode is that once you survive the beginning, it becomes more like Grind mode.

My two biggest problems with the default Hard difficulty options:

1. Building upgrades cost too much.

2. Rockets don't cost enough.

The root of the problem is that the "Funds Penalties" applies to the cost of building upgrades, but not the costs involved in running missions (part costs and part unlock costs). Compared to normal mode, buildings essentially cost about 4x the normal cost, while rockets cost just less than 2x.

My ideal career mode would have rocket costs high while leaving building upgrades normal. I want to emphasize building cost-effective rockets rather than running a hundred contracts.

So I'm going to try something like this instead:

-- Funds Rewards 30%

-- Funds Penalties 30%

You may think, "Funds Penalties 30%?! But that's less than Easy mode!" Well, that's not really true. What's really important is the ratio between rewards (all of your income) and the costs. By setting both to 30%, they keep the same scale as if they were both 100%, like adjusting for inflation. BUT that's not really true either. Since rocket costs do not change with any of the sliders, getting just 30% rewards will drastically cut down the profit margins for each contract, making it harder to build up cash, thereby increasing the effect of any penalties.

Settings like this should make reusable ships much more important. I'm not sure yet how Strategies are affected by the sliders, but if they aren't affected at all, this should make the funds-for-science and science-for-funds strategies a bit more reasonable.

Thoughts?

[sal_vager]

I think this is development discussion

I don't think there's a way to change part, and by extension craft costs in the code yet, so it's more work than just adding another slider, also I think building costs shouldn't be the limiting factor, instead you should get far lower returns on your contracts.

The offered contracts also should be harder, and be possible with available tech but certainly not beginner friendly, it's meant to be hard mode, not hand-holding new player mode.

If you are not a good pilot and play on hard, you should expect a rough time

[zarakon]

I think this is development discussion

I intended it to be more of a discussion about how players can use the existing custom sliders to create a better "Hard mode", rather than suggesting how the game itself should be changed, but I suppose it's hard to have the former without at least implying the latter

[Torquemadus]

The pic below shows my "rebalanced" settings for Hard Mode. The building costs are the same as Hard, but the mission rewards are drastically reduced.

[sal_vager]

Wow you're really cutting it back there Torquemadus

[Amahula]

By setting rewards and penalties to 30% you basically make the rockets 3.33x more expensive (what you wanted I guess).

So what's the problem with the current sliders? seems like you just solved it with that.

[ghpstage]

zarakon]The problem with Hard mode is that once you survive the beginning, it becomes more like Grind mode.

I don't find this at all.

You can upgrade the launchpad for just 104,000, which you can get just by completing the 'scripted' altitude records and orbit contracts on hard. This allows for early manned Minmus and Mun landings.

Alternatively manned Mun and Minmus missions can be done with the Aerodynamics tech and no upgrades.

Without any building upgrades you can land probes, costing about 10k each, on the Mun and Minmus to clear their contracts, worth more than 300k between them.

With nothing more than patched conics and mission planning probes can reasonably go to Duna, Ike, Eve, Gilly and Jool for exploration contracts worth around 250-300k+ each, you can explore other bodies too, but even before this point i'd be looking at manned missions to the Duna system!

Throw in the odd rescue, space science (which can be done to increase exploration returns!), flag planting, satellite and parts test contracts and you can get to this point with relatively few launches, without contract spamming and very, very quickly. Unless your playing to Kerbal time, as those interplanetary missions do take a half a year or more!

Hard being grindy is just a result of people not using probes much, and being scared of pushing to get more from less.

I do actually agree on rockets costing more, and am trying a career with the same settings Torquemadus showed to slow things down, just with 1k starting to not have to do an additional non-launch at the start.

The science reduction in particular makes getting through the early game without constantly repeating contracts a lot harder.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ghpstage