OMICRON - Flying Space Car Development Thread

[regex]

Regex, the thing i was opting in is to make a cooler omicron logo. Your idea was for put a "flag" in that position so anyone can choose what to put there. But because all of you are so kind i will think about and find a way out good for everyone.

Hey, it's your project, do it how you want it done, we're just really excited about it! Anyway, I really just wanted to point out that I didn't want my flag in particular on the model, but a place for my flag on the model. in the end, having it on the driving compartment like it is now is perfectly fine.

[Climberfx]

Regex, i really care about you too man. It's not only for me i'm doing, it's for us. Of course i will have it on my way too, but don't cost so much to implement some details that can maximize others enjoyment too. So, i will do options to cover that!

Keep in touch.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Climberfx

[Climberfx]

Hey Guys, take a look at this:

Substance Painter and Design is the program that i will use to paint the textures. And they have a marvelous Unity integration...

I think i can manage a way to port those parameters, like color and alfa logo to KSP too.

[Gaalidas]

Maybe... KSP is still using an older version of unity, so you may run into issues. However, if it uses a shader than you might be able to use custom shader loader to bring the shader into KSP. Otherwise, you'll have to export the results to a standard texture setup.

[Climberfx]

Yes, i can choose the shader i want in Unity. Even using Unity 4.x.

What i need to study a little bit is the C# code process to implement the tags i will generate in Substance, that will appear in list on Unity. (like on Video 6).

I already did some tutors and tryouts with codes, but i'm in nursery off programing skills yet.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Climberfx

[Gaalidas]

I'm not even there in the code stuff yet. I know enough to be dangerous, and by dangerous I mean I break stuff. A lot of stuff.

[Papa_Joe]

Yes, i can choose the shader i want in Unity. Even using Unity 4.x.

What i need to study a little bit is the C# code process to implement the tags i will generate in Substance, that will appear in list on Unity. (like on Video 6).

I already did some tutors and tryouts with codes, but i'm in nursery off programing skills yet.

I may be able to help a little if I know what it is you are trying to do.

[Climberfx]

Hey papa, i wanna put a color chooser inside KSP, primary color, a alpha logo image, like png for change the logo in front of noose, and try to have another parameter that will be exported from substance to Unity, that will drive the oldness of the paint on ship, making it go with scratches and dirty over use automatically, like 3 levels, new, little dirty, and old (or more stages). So the people will now when is the moment of a revision or clean up or repair. Can be an option for that when near KSC, for example. Or only get old by use in time/missions/lands. Or too, after an reentry, all will be flamed and burned outside...

This sort of implementation have a lot of uses...

I may be able to do that from Maya to substance, then to Unity, i can make sliders that will appear there that will drive this things, but i do not know the code on C# to bring that to KSP. But this may take some time yet. I just close one job here, and stopped this hobby for a week.

What you think?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Climberfx

[Papa_Joe]

Hey papa, i wanna put a color chooser inside KSP, primary color, a alpha logo image, like png for change the logo in front of noose, and try to have another parameter that will be exported from substance to Unity, that will drive the oldness of the paint on ship, making it go with scratches and dirty over use automatically, like 3 levels, new, little dirty, and old (or more stages). So the people will now when is the moment of a revision or clean up or repair. Can be an option for that when near KSC, for example. Or only get old by use in time/missions/lands. Or too, after an reentry, all will be flamed and burned outside...

This sort of implementation have a lot of uses...

I may be able to do that from Maya to substance, then to Unity, i can make sliders that will appear there that will drive this things, but i do not know the code on C# to bring that to KSP. But this may take some time yet. I just close one job here, and stopped this hobby for a week.

What you think?

Hey Climber,

First, I believe there is a module for the flag feature, and you could create a suitable flag for your logo, and take advantage of the built in flag setting features in KSP. This would allow you to set the flag in the VAB/SPH. Not sure if you can declare a default (such as your Omicron logo), but I will research to see if that can be done.

I myself am looking into building a color chooser for use in SM when selecting the desired highlight colors in settings. Not too painful to do, but will require a plugin to create the needed interface in KSP.

Second, since a vessel is essentially "recovered" after a flight (assuming you landed back at KSC), there is no history of a flight, other than experience that is stored with the kerbals that do the flying. So, aging between flights as you appear to be wanting to accomplish cannot be tracked in game. Now, it may be possible to simulate aging of your vessel by persisting a separate file that tracks flights. Not sure how we make that elegant, but as I always say, where there is a will, there is a way.

You could however add in-flight aging, based on accomplishments during the flight, and replace textures with the desired ones as you progress through the flight. This would also require a plugin (can be the same one) that looks for any additional fields you wish to add to your parts to track the changes needed during flight. I could help with the plugin or at least point you in the right direction. You might even use animations to simulate the process of weathering, or burning, based on temperature via Maya / Unity. Then switch to the desired new textures after the event. The modeling and texture stuff is not my strength yet.

Be happy to look into the flag, aging and texture replacement needs if you wish.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[Gaalidas]

If you use something similar to what the space tug uses, which I recently discovered is part of the JSI part utilities mod, then a default can be set while allowing the user to customize what each flag object will display, allowing for a different flag on each instance of the flag object. It also allows for setting a flat object to, if not set to anything else, show an agency flag so that it will try to auto-set itself based on a mission you may be undertaking. At least, that's the theory.

Age-based textures is something I know I've talked to someone about in the past. One way that was talked about is implementing a new resource, much like how Deadly Reentry handles the shields being worn down. As the resource is depleted, which could start out as a time-based depletion and be depleted an extra amount based on the conditions such as reentry or collisions, or even based on what planetary body it is on (Duna can get really dusty at times). Then, using something like the static fuel tanks system of Kerbal Konstructs, you could replenish that resource which would cause your mod to revert any texture alterations back to a cleaner look. How to achieve the texture alterations is something that needs some research on, but the resource-based tracking of those conditions is a pretty solid and reliable method.

Between flights, as Papa_Joe has said, is not something that can be done at this time without some major work. Besides, once the craft is removed from the game world (reverted or recovered) it is reasonable to think that maintenance and repairs would be done. Between-flights without a recovery, however, if using a resource tracking system for the vessel states, would be persistent between game sessions, and would be easy to implement some sort of on-the-field maintenance similar to how a kerbal can fix a broken wheel.

[Climberfx]

Hey Papa and Gaalidas.

Is not exactly that.

Besides what you two suggested are very cool too.

I recommend to watch the Substance video 6, so you understand more what i wanna do.

(Movie 6 is above: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/105815-WIP-OMICRON-Space-Car-Parts-Creation?p=1825280&viewfull=1#post1825280", if you see the 6, the 5 have some thing too with the decal, but if you have patience, watch all of then, from 1)

Forget about the in between flight log, or so. No need for that, is in one flight only.

The is driven, not by the user, but the time i flight in atmosphere for exemple, i take a 12 hours journey, so, the paint job on Omicron will get dirt and scratched.

And if i return from space, it will be scorched on lower parts.

But this is not a texture replacement, but if it was the amount of textures and memory would increase drasticaly. Is not what i mean.

As you see in Substance, i can expose some arguments of the procedure driven texture, so, the change of color would be for design and happen in VAB/SPH, and the destructiveness of flight and reentry, happens moving one of dose exposed sliders, that i pre build in substance.

Why? Just because it take all the textures and details in layer in consideration. Is not only a pure color over. The details are preserved.

So for the "alpha", or outline of a logo, is not the flag, the flag will be there in the sides.

Is more like a black and white file, or an png with alfa, that will driven other exposed "texture/file" that will handle, a little bump, or normal map, that will make such "logo" part of the decal of the car. inside the other "textures". Integrated.

Is more a refinement then just an application of a logo.

But like i said is driven by the substance.

First i will need to see if i can use this in KSP, with the KSP part tools shaders. Here is another wall, i think.

I know for sure that i can use substance on both, unity 4.x and 5. But i believe this recognition of substance files inside the defined shader i choose occur only in Unity 5. If true, that will be sad.

So, the thing to search for, in the programing side, is, how to link this Unity exposed slider/color/file (like any slider of Unity), on to KSP in the correct format.

Color (color picker) on SPH/VAB;

Age driven by time of use (slider), on the same vessel, dumped when recovered;

Scorched (just a slider) after a reentry;

And i will study the Substance Unity 4.x( for KSP compatibility) integration and limits.

Cheers my friend!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Climberfx

[Gaalidas]

Well, you're extremely limited by the version of unity that is being used by KSP. I haven't seen anything in KSP about procedural textures, and substance painting is a relatively new thing. What we're capable of doing right now is pretty much what we've been talking about. How you paint your textures is your business, but in the end you'll have to bow to the limitations of KSP. I think you're trying to integrate something that's just a bit too complicated for the environment we're using in the end.

[Climberfx]

Maybe, but still thinking and figuring out, and maybe when i get there, or for second release of Omicron, KSP will be already on Unity 5

Is why i keep fomenting this.

But for know, if we can change a base color, and put that extra decal (besides de flag it already have) on front, will be great

[Papa_Joe]

Well, you're extremely limited by the version of unity that is being used by KSP. I haven't seen anything in KSP about procedural textures, and substance painting is a relatively new thing. What we're capable of doing right now is pretty much what we've been talking about. How you paint your textures is your business, but in the end you'll have to bow to the limitations of KSP. I think you're trying to integrate something that's just a bit too complicated for the environment we're using in the end.

I would tend to agree, but I'm not up to speed with the modeling side yet. I will take a look at the video and what you are trying to do to see if there are means to expose the modifications you are discussing via script. I really do like the idea.

[Climberfx]

Is like working with layered textures, at least a two layers could do part of the trick. Putting the color on lower layer, and up of it, i put the details of edges, crashes...

The substance integration i imagine will need the Unity 5 update from Squad.

Here is a link on forum to a thread were Nliwork ask what types of shaders are loaded into KSP and how to use them. I like this one too. He did the mods we was talking about.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93079-list-of-loaded-shaders

Cheers

Edited April 8, 2015 by Climberfx

[Gaalidas]

Right, layering is sorta what I was going for when I was talking about adapting the heat-shield resource tracking to work with age and texture swaps. We wouldn't want to swap the main texture for every state the craft is in, or you'd have to scrap every other texture-based mod in favor of this one exclusively. This thing is awesome, but not that awesome. You'd definitely want to layer the details of the vessel states on top of the main texture to reduce the ram overhead. I think of it as a similar effect to how KerbPaint overlayed the tinting shader over the main texture (a mod I sorely miss, by the way) instead of replacing the original texture with a colored version.

Also, if you can make this sort of detail overlay system work with KSP for use in your mod, I might have to look at the results and see if it can be made into a revival of a paint mod. Could be some awesome stuff in the future due, in part, to this mod.

Gotta love how xEvilReaperx comes out with these handy little code snippets, such as the output to text file instead of just logging all those shader names. That would be so much more useful for mod development than having to search the whole log for that specific error or warning.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Gaalidas

[Climberfx]

There's a phrase in Portuguese, that directly translated to english, is more or less this:

"One hour it will work, and when it happens, will be beautiful!"

[Mecripp]

O the the OMICROM or Royal Climberfx

[Gaalidas]

There's a phrase in Portuguese, that directly translated to english, is more or less this:

"One hour it will work, and when it happens, will be beautiful!"

In English we would probably say it as "One day this will work, and that will be a beautiful day." Or something like that.

It probably sounds better in it's original language.

The pictures in the above post gave me an idea. Maybe it's time to try and revive the hood ornaments mod. I can see it now... the Texas version of the omicron space car... with a pair of horns attached to the front bumper.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Gaalidas

[Climberfx]

Is similar. Feels the same

It's possible. Here another video showing better the layer thing, that can be exposed on sliders in Unity (in the case is Unreal 4).

This will open some great possibilities for every modder...

MeCripp, that lady from Rolls Royce is superb.

Was forgot her!

Open my mind...

Edited April 10, 2015 by Climberfx

[Papa_Joe]

Is similar. Feels the same

It's possible. Here another video showing better the layer thing, that can be exposed on sliders in Unity (in the case is Unreal 4).

This will open some great possibilities for every modder...

MeCripp, that lady from Rolls Royce is superb.

Was forgot her!

Open my mind...

Unreal 4 uses the unreal engine, so it is not Unity. I understand that the Unreal engine licensing is changing and all source code is available. Doesn't help up here tho. Don't know about unity support of this feature. I definitely need to start working with unity more directly...

[Climberfx]

Yes, i told was Unreal 4 in that video, but was to see the layers part on Substance. That are treated the same on Unity 5.

And the type of integration on Unity 5 is the same. Full integration.

I know that there is an export for Unity 4 from Substance Painter, in the latest version. I searching for more info...

Edited April 14, 2015 by Climberfx

[Gaalidas]

That export in substance is likely why there are part mods for KSP that contain textures which look a lot like the texture that was being worked on in that example you posted a while back. It likely just takes the resulting texture that you've painted and exports in into the format of a standard texture along with the model and everything already configured in the proper way. That doesn't necessarily mean you can use substance stuff in Unity 4, just that it can export a texture made in substance to a unity 4 compatible texture.

[Climberfx]

That's is for sure. The online stuff will be for Unity 5 only i believe too.

But, still, i'm preparing my self. This wouldn't take long...

The worst that can happen is the first release be an static texture substance generated. Still be d$m pretty.

[Papa_Joe]

That's is for sure. The online stuff will be for Unity 5 only i believe too.

But, still, i'm preparing my self. This wouldn't take long...

The worst that can happen is the first release be an static texture substance generated. Still be d$m pretty.

I agree. KSP will end up on Unity 5 at some point, and it is very pretty