[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[_Zee]

Hi Yemo, I'm returning to 1.0.2 after having taken a break from the game since before .90. I'm going through the process of re-modding/overhauling the game and I came across your mod. I really like the new tech tree and improved contracts progression you've provided. I have a few questions though.

1) I've noticed mention of the 1.0 update breaking something with modded tech tree's that causes empty nodes to appear. I don't plan on downloading every single mod you've listed so is there simply no way to remove these empty nodes from the tech tree?? Or even a workaround? Spending science on an empty node is a deal-breaker for me.

2) I don't like the change you've made to the Goo and Science Jr. experiments. Is there a way for me to re-allow the collection of experiments during EVA from these science parts?

Thanks for your response and thanks for your mod!

[hbkmog]

Hi Yemo, I'm returning to 1.0.2 after having taken a break from the game since before .90. I'm going through the process of re-modding/overhauling the game and I came across your mod. I really like the new tech tree and improved contracts progression you've provided. I have a few questions though.

1) I've noticed mention of the 1.0 update breaking something with modded tech tree's that causes empty nodes to appear. I don't plan on downloading every single mod you've listed so is there simply no way to remove these empty nodes from the tech tree?? Or even a workaround? Spending science on an empty node is a deal-breaker for me.

2) I don't like the change you've made to the Goo and Science Jr. experiments. Is there a way for me to re-allow the collection of experiments during EVA from these science parts?

Thanks for your response and thanks for your mod!

I think he has answered before that the empty nodes are a "feature" in 1.0 game. There's nothing can be done about it.

[Yemo]

One suggestion. Since now Station Science mod has been updated to 1.0 compatible, is it possible to integrate that into SETI? It adds more space station science stuff to do.

I ll put it back on the list, thank you!

Hi Yemo, I'm returning to 1.0.2 after having taken a break from the game since before .90. I'm going through the process of re-modding/overhauling the game and I came across your mod. I really like the new tech tree and improved contracts progression you've provided. I have a few questions though.

1) I've noticed mention of the 1.0 update breaking something with modded tech tree's that causes empty nodes to appear. I don't plan on downloading every single mod you've listed so is there simply no way to remove these empty nodes from the tech tree?? Or even a workaround? Spending science on an empty node is a deal-breaker for me.

2) I don't like the change you've made to the Goo and Science Jr. experiments. Is there a way for me to re-allow the collection of experiments during EVA from these science parts?

Thanks for your response and thanks for your mod!

ad1. As hbkmog said, it is a stock feature. However stock parts should be reachable without empty nodes in between, except for the nuclear engine. Researching an empty node is like adding its cost to the one which eventually contains the part, just different visualization. Progression is balanced around costs to reach a part, not around the cost of the node containing the part eventually.

You might want to install VenStockRevamp, it adds a small nuke to the now "empty" first nuclear propulsion node.

ad2. Those changes are made using module manager statements in the SETI-ScienceSettings.cfg. There should be 3 for mystery goo and 3 for materials bay. You can change or delete them if you like. Though keep in mind that those experiments are balanced around being non-collectible. Materials bay is much lighter than in stock (80kg instead of 200kg), while mystery goo provides much more science (18 instead of 13, while only being a bit heavier 80kg instead of 50kg or so). Also their transmission values are adjusted, so with a scientist you can reuse them, but only for transmission, if you do not use a lab.

[sherkaner]

ad2. Those changes are made using module manager statements in the SETI-ScienceSettings.cfg. There should be 3 for mystery goo and 3 for materials bay. You can change or delete them if you like. Though keep in mind that those experiments are balanced around being non-collectible. Materials bay is much lighter than in stock (80kg instead of 200kg), while mystery goo provides much more science (18 instead of 13, while only being a bit heavier 80kg instead of 50kg or so). Also their transmission values are adjusted, so with a scientist you can reuse them, but only for transmission, if you do not use a lab.

I'm curious if you've documented anywhere all of these changes from default behavior. I think it's great, but it's like I almost want a SETI player's guide for how everything should be expected to work. Although really it could just be captured in the descriptions in the tech tree itself possibly, so the game "teaches" you roughly how to use parts as you unlock them.

[Yemo]

I'm curious if you've documented anywhere all of these changes from default behavior. I think it's great, but it's like I almost want a SETI player's guide for how everything should be expected to work. Although really it could just be captured in the descriptions in the tech tree itself possibly, so the game "teaches" you roughly how to use parts as you unlock them.

I started a guide and a description of the most dramatic changes for the old balance mod (OP and second post), but not for SETIctt yet.

One reason was, that the science experiments now show in the game description (module), whether they are collectible or not.

[Olsson]

The antennas that are built into the cores override AntennaRange.

I deleted the antenna parts that are inside command modules and probes from the SETIctt-settings.cfg to circumvent this so it wasn't that big an issue.

Just letting you know!

Edited May 20, 2015 by Olsson

[hbkmog]

I started a guide and a description of the most dramatic changes for the old balance mod (OP and second post), but not for SETIctt yet.

One reason was, that the science experiments now show in the game description (module), whether they are collectible or not.

That's great idea. I think what's gonna be most helpful is a tech tree map indicating what mods are where in the nodes. I know right now there's one out there but that doesn't seem complete, especially that near future technology and interstellar extended seem a bit confusing.

[Xenotheos]

I picked up the Manned Orbit for 3 days mission and 3 days into it I read the fine print to see why it's not completed only to find out the duration is 12 days. Is this just 2 different definitions of day? Our 24 hour day vs the Kerbin 6 hour day. I noticed it said 72 hours in the fine print as well so I'm guessing it's just that. It is misleading however when there are 2 separate definitions of the same word in a contract, now I have to spend my science to pick up life support earlier than I wanted to.

[K3RBAL KOL4]

Your ....'s broken brah. Your tech tree has random green buttons all over the place.. Well done.

[Yemo]

The antennas that are built into the cores override AntennaRange.

I deleted the antenna parts that are inside command modules and probes from the SETIctt-settings.cfg to circumvent this so it wasn't that big an issue.

Just letting you know!

Thank you, will correct it!

That's great idea. I think what's gonna be most helpful is a tech tree map indicating what mods are where in the nodes. I know right now there's one out there but that doesn't seem complete, especially that near future technology and interstellar extended seem a bit confusing.

KSPIextended and NF are all over the place, but mostly in the upper right quadrant. They are also the only mods I m aware of for that part of the tech tree.

I picked up the Manned Orbit for 3 days mission and 3 days into it I read the fine print to see why it's not completed only to find out the duration is 12 days. Is this just 2 different definitions of day? Our 24 hour day vs the Kerbin 6 hour day. I noticed it said 72 hours in the fine print as well so I'm guessing it's just that. It is misleading however when there are 2 separate definitions of the same word in a contract, now I have to spend my science to pick up life support earlier than I wanted to.

Sorry about that I should only use the hour format for that reason, will correct the title in the next version.

Generally the duration statement in the objectives list is the one that gets checked.

If you are using TAC life support, you indeed need the containers, with USI you dont.

Your ....'s broken brah. Your tech tree has random green buttons all over the place.. Well done.

Random green buttons?

Could you be more specific (screenshot)? Since no one else of the downloaders reported this.

[hbkmog]

Regarding RemoteTech tech tree placement, I have a question.

This is the RemoteTech parts:

https://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/parts/

I noticed that I unlocked Reflectron KR-7 before Comms DTS-M1, which seems a bit odd because Reflectron KR-7 is an upgraded version of the latter. Is that intended?

[commodore7574]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but what mods are necessary to complete the tech tree? I love your mod but have hit the point where I have all the "stock" parts unlocked and would like to go further. Again, sorry if this has already been asked/answered!

[_Zee]

In your list of mods, next to TAC Life Support you have a link to a compatibility file marked as REQUIRED. I noticed this file was uploaded 2 months ago though. Is it still needed/updated?

Also, I'm confused about what the differences between these 2 contract progression downloads are?

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/742

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/577/InitialContracts

Edited May 20, 2015 by _Zee

[Yemo]

Regarding RemoteTech tech tree placement, I have a question.

This is the RemoteTech parts:

https://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/parts/

I noticed that I unlocked Reflectron KR-7 before Comms DTS-M1, which seems a bit odd because Reflectron KR-7 is an upgraded version of the latter. Is that intended?

Yes, it is intentional. The range advantage of the KR-7 is largely irrelevant, as Minmus is in range of the DTS-M1 for most cases. The only other advantage of the KR-7 is that it does not snap in the atmosphere. But on the other hand, the DTS-M1 is lighter and provides a much larger cone, which is useful for relay networks.

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but what mods are necessary to complete the tech tree? I love your mod but have hit the point where I have all the "stock" parts unlocked and would like to go further. Again, sorry if this has already been asked/answered!

I do not think that all nodes can be filled at the moment. But you can take a look at the linked image besides the SETIctt download or above the big SETIctt overview image in the OP.

Generally KSPIextended and NearFuture fill out the NorthWestern corner, StationPartsExpansion and MKS/OKS fill out the Southern line together with life support mods, Karbonite should be for resource extraction and InfernalRobotics for the actuators.

In your list of mods, next to TAC Life Support you have a link to a compatibility file marked as REQUIRED. I noticed this file was uploaded 2 months ago though. Is it still needed/updated?

Also, I'm confused about what the differences between these 2 contract progression downloads are?

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/742

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/577/InitialContracts

This whole list of mods, including the INSTALL section and the compatibility file, is for the SETI-BalanceMod, which only works in KSP 0.90.

SETIcontracts is the stuff shown in the progression picture, replacing the stock explore body contracts.

InitialContracts only contains the 3 starting contracts, 18km altitude, reach space and orbit.

[_Zee]

This whole list of mods, including the INSTALL section and the compatibility file, is for the SETI-BalanceMod, which only works in KSP 0.90.

Right, but SETIctt and SETIcontracts are both marked as updated for 1.0.2, and I'm currently using both. I also have the most recent version of TAC Life Support installed. So does my current mod configuration need a compatibility patch? Or will it work without problem?

[Yemo]

Right, but SETIctt and SETIcontracts are both marked as updated for 1.0.2, and I'm currently using both. I also have the most recent version of TAC Life Support installed. So does my current mod configuration need a compatibility patch? Or will it work without problem?

The compatibility patch is only intended for the balance mod. Do not use it.

[deprav]

Hi,

I'm having issues to make the SETI-CTT work :

Firstly I installed a bunch of mods (~40) through CKAN, including SETI-CTT and "normal" CTT, since it's a requirement. But after the few first flights of my career, I realized something was wrong with my career techtree, some parts were missing, I thought it was normal at first since it's a brand new layout and I might find them later, but nope.

Then it hit me : my tech tree was the vanilla one, but parts were being unlocked under SETI-CTT's fashion (probs first etc...), but somehow using the vanilla nodes ; which is pretty damn weird.

So I tried uninstalling all the mods, installing solely SETI-CTT + CTT, that didn't work. I reinstalled KSP for a fresh start, installed SETI-CTT + CTT again, still not working, I still see the vanilla TT.

Thanks for incoming help !

Edit : Don't know if that can help since I've no idea if it's related, but KAX parts wouldn't show up either.

And module manager is installed.

Edited May 20, 2015 by deprav

[Yemo]

Hi,

I'm having issues to make the SETI-CTT work :

Firstly I installed a bunch of mods (~40) through CKAN, including SETI-CTT and "normal" CTT, since it's a requirement. But after the few first flights of my career, I realized something was wrong with my career techtree, some parts were missing, I thought it was normal at first since it's a brand new layout and I might find them later, but nope.

Then it hit me : my tech tree was the vanilla one, but parts were being unlocked under SETI-CTT's fashion (probs first etc...), but somehow using the vanilla nodes ; which is pretty damn weird.

So I tried uninstalling all the mods, installing solely SETI-CTT + CTT, that didn't work. I reinstalled KSP for a fresh start, installed SETI-CTT + CTT again, still not working, I still see the vanilla TT.

Thanks for incoming help !

Edit : Don't know if that can help since I've no idea if it's related, but KAX parts wouldn't show up either.

And module manager is installed.

I can not speak for the massive mod install, though with only SETIctt, CTT and module manager installed, it should work fine.

With that setup, do you not have the earlyAvionics technode for 4 science?

[Gfurst]

@Yemo

How are ya?

For some time I've been watching the SETI mod in the background, after being recommended by someone from on my career overhaul suggestion.

It seems we have some very similar visions. I have started my own little project aimed to do some balancing and fixing on stock.

Check out these two, the links in my signature.

But how is the mod state so far in its 1.0 release?

[deprav]

I can not speak for the massive mod install, though with only SETIctt, CTT and module manager installed, it should work fine.

With that setup, do you not have the earlyAvionics technode for 4 science?

Apparently not, this is what I have :

http://imgur.com/a/D5pjG#0

That doesn't look at all like this :

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/748

D:

[Yemo]

@Yemo

How are ya?

For some time I've been watching the SETI mod in the background, after being recommended by someone from on my career overhaul suggestion.

It seems we have some very similar visions. I have started my own little project aimed to do some balancing and fixing on stock.

Check out these two, the links in my signature.

But how is the mod state so far in its 1.0 release?

Hey, yep, looks like we have very similar approaches to rebalancing stock!

I will take a closer look over the next weekend!

About the state of the mod:

Compared to stock it is much improved.

Compared to the BalanceMod before, it is very rough and in its infancy again.

For the moment I m only dealing with the extremely bad stock issues, in addition to the tech/science and contracts progression.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently not, this is what I have :

http://imgur.com/a/D5pjG#0

That doesn't look at all like this :

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/748

D:

Are you sure you have the latest (and only the latest) module manager 2.6.3 installed directly in your gamedata directory?

[deprav]

- - - Updated - - -

Are you sure you have the latest (and only the latest) module manager 2.6.3 installed directly in your gamedata directory?

HA ! Apparently not !

Just checked and I've a ModuleManager.2.5.1.dll in there, even though CKAN was telling me I had 2.6.3 all along. Maybe it's this KSPModAdmin2 I installed a few days ago which put it there.

So I delete ModuleManager 2.5.1 and let CKAN do all the rest or should I manually add 2.6.3 in there ?

Edit : I'm doing it anyway, I think it's going to work ;o

Thousand thanks for your time and answers Yemo !

Edited May 21, 2015 by deprav

[RazorTheHackman]

Is there a list of the mods that will fill up the tech tree indicated in the image?

I looked at it and there's a couple I can't find.

[Lord Aurelius]

I agree with RazorTheHackman, can we get a list of mods on the OP that are currently supported by SETIctt? They've been mentioned periodically in this thread with each update, but they've kind of been buried at this point.

Also, what is the current status of SETI? Last I saw you were working on splitting the balance changes out of SETI-CTT and into their own mod, is there an ETA on that?

Almost up to 1000 posts (whoever posts next gets the 1000th post!) Great job with all the work you've done with this, keep up the good work!

[Yemo]

Is there a list of the mods that will fill up the tech tree indicated in the image?

I looked at it and there's a couple I can't find.

There is a different overview image, right beside the download link, stating some mods to fill up many of the nodes.

I agree with RazorTheHackman, can we get a list of mods on the OP that are currently supported by SETIctt? They've been mentioned periodically in this thread with each update, but they've kind of been buried at this point.

Also, what is the current status of SETI? Last I saw you were working on splitting the balance changes out of SETI-CTT and into their own mod, is there an ETA on that?

Almost up to 1000 posts (whoever posts next gets the 1000th post!) Great job with all the work you've done with this, keep up the good work!

The splitting/reboot is planned, but it is not a priority at the moment.

Adding more mods to the current SETIctt mod comes first and I m not sure how fast that will progress.

Currently waiting for 1.0.3, which should arrive during the next few days.

1000 posts, yeah!