At least one SPH action group earlier

[eddiew]

Hi there,

Really simple; it would be nice if tier 2 (or even 1) SPH allowed at least 1 custom action group.

Reason; spaceplanes are all but unflyable without them. A quick read of the forum shows various solutions being used, ranging from mods, to mapping the abort action to perform the necessary engine switch. It is simply not practical to wait for the air-breathing jets to flame out on their own, or rapiers to automatically change mode, since your spaceplane can end up in a death spiral due to this happening asymmetrically. You cannot manually click the engine and toggle it because you will get exactly the same issue. Single-jet designs are vaguely possible, but not useful, since they lack the thrust to lift significant cargo.

On the other hand, the VAB does not require tier 3 to get to LKO because rockets, frankly, are simpler. Action groups are not a luxury that can be deferred in the SPH, they are a requirement from the start - although it would be practical to restrict it to one or two at early tiers.

Personally I've started using AGX, and I'll be sticking with it because it's nice that it has so many options and buttons, not to mention that it overrides career mode and gives me engine control back - but for those who prefer not to mod their game, stock really should make the spaceplanes workable

Alternatively; if an engine is placed with mirror symmetry, make it act as such! Flameout at the same time whatever else may be going on in the structure of the craft, then players can just wait for it to happen and not worry. Asymmetric flameout is the killer.

Thanks!

[Bill Phil]

Flameout happens at different times because the actual environments they're in are different.

[BudgetHedgehog]

How have you unlocked RAPIERs (or indeed, any need for action groups) before upgrading the SPH to at least level 2? You can't even build something over 30 parts/18 tons before this so your first level tech spaceplanes must be either pretty specialised or just basically rockets. Also, what's so wrong about mapping whatever AG needed to the RCS/Abort/Lights/Stage? There's 4 AGs you're rarely be using for planes anyway and if you can afford the tech to make a spaceplane (by upgrading the R&D), you can certainly afford to upgrade the SPH pretty soon after, if not long before.

[CaptainKipard]

Also, what's so wrong about mapping whatever AG needed to the RCS/Abort/Lights/Stage?

It's hacky and breaks immersion.

I'm in favour of this suggestion.

[rcp27]

I definitely agree with this point. I have a couple of designs of spaceplanes from 0.25 using Mk2 parts, turbojet engines and relatively basic rockets. I have used these in 0.25 to launch satellites and space probes, and to rotate crew to and from a LKO space station. I imported the craft file to a 0.90 career mode I have been playing through. With the tier 2 but not tier 3 R&D centre, I can unlock all of the parts required. With the tier 2 SPH and tier 2 runway I can construct the planes and launch them. Without custom action groups, though, I can't actually fly them without fudging the default action groups to switch between air breathing and non-air breathing modes. In a real sense, for a space plane action groups are as necessary to make them functional as staging is for rockets (and staging is available in the tier 1 VAB). Perhaps a default action group (so that it comes with tier 2) in the SPH for "air mode" and "vacuum mode" would allow functional spaceplanes with the tier 2 SPH without breaking the concept of custom action groups as a tier 3 feature.

[Alshain]

I think unlocking more action groups per tier is a great idea (rather than all or none).

However on the plane building I disagree. It's possible to design spaceplanes that are unaffected by flameout if you get creative enough.