LordFerret Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm surprised nobody here has not picked up on this yet and posted about it.It seems that a group of astronomers from Spain (and the UK) feel they've data and observations which indicate there are at least two (2) additional planets beyond the orbit of Pluto... what are being called ETNOs (Extreme Trans-Neptunian Objects). The initial article I read had stated that, if they did exist, they'd be hard to find if not impossible using current technology. I find that a bit hard to swallow however, especially since our current technology allows us to see (visually) exoplanets such as Fomalhaut b and HD 189733b. TNOs are interesting to begin with, and these more-so ... at least the implications in this new 'theory'. Maybe after the New Horizons mission is done with its Pluto fly-by it can turn its attention to this?http://www.universetoday.com/118252/astronomers-are-predicting-at-least-two-more-large-planets-in-the-solar-system/http://www.astrobio.net/topic/solar-system/outer-solar-system/trans-neptunian-objects-suggest-planets-solar-system/Will we see new planets beyond Eeloo in the future as well ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 First Point:EelooI just can't help but smile! Second Point:If you think about it, the energy an ETNO wold get from the sun is extremely low. So it's apparent magnitude, especially when viewed from this close to the star, makes it invisible to just about anything.An exoplanet can get help from its home star, which makes it easier to see, but is generally detected by checking the star's magnitude over time. You know the Kepler mission? It's looking at only one tiny part of the night sky. And look at the results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astropapi1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 We're still discovering new moons around Neptune (was it Neptune? been a while since I read that article), and there's a lot of space out there. If these "planets" are relatively small, it doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 We're still discovering new moons around Neptune (was it Neptune? been a while since I read that article), and there's a lot of space out there. If these "planets" are relatively small, it doesn't surprise me.According to their speculation, both new planets would be quite large, far larger than Earth. Did you view the article?First Point:I just can't help but smile! Second Point:If you think about it, the energy an ETNO wold get from the sun is extremely low. So it's apparent magnitude, especially when viewed from this close to the star, makes it invisible to just about anything.An exoplanet can get help from its home star, which makes it easier to see, but is generally detected by checking the star's magnitude over time. You know the Kepler mission? It's looking at only one tiny part of the night sky. And look at the results!The two exoplanets I've mentioned have been viewed visually, actually seen in orbit... we're not talking star wobble here, or magnitude variance due to occlusion or transit. We are already imaging some Kuiper and even Oort objects (2012 VP113 as mentioned in the article); Meaning, this (these two new) should be possible to see (once they actually find them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 they probibly wouldnt fit the current definition of 'planet'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 they probibly wouldnt fit the current definition of 'planet'.Luckily people do not even agree what a planet constitutes, so there is some room for interpretation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I really wouldn't be surprised. The solar system is mind bogglingly huge and goes out way beyond Pluto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Luckily people do not even agree what a planet constitutes, so there is some room for interpretation there.i wouldn't be surprised if we find another class of object which turns the definition over again. i really dont like the current definition, we could have come up with something much better than 'its round and it clears its orbit'. 'clears its orbit' in particular is really hard to define, earth has a lot of objects that cross its orbit, so by the current definition earth isnt even a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_las Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 i wouldn't be surprised if we find another class of object which turns the definition over again. i really dont like the current definition, we could have come up with something much better than 'its round and it clears its orbit'. 'clears its orbit' in particular is really hard to define, earth has a lot of objects that cross its orbit, so by the current definition earth isnt even a planet.You should really read up on the actual definition. "Has cleared its orbit" can be defined pretty clearly, and Earth is clearly a planet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearing_the_neighbourhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Please, not this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Wait. We can find obiects the size of Pluto or smaller (Haumea, Makemake et consortes) on the far fringes of Solar system, yet we somehow missed two planets comparable to Earth? I find it hard to believe - unless they have weird orbits or are really, really far away from the Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylandro Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 People, can we stop arguing what is a planet and what is a dwarf planet? I honestly like more, large somewhat of a Trans-Neptunian-Objects, if i do say so for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Augustus_ Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I started a thread about this too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Wait. We can find obiects the size of Pluto or smaller (Haumea, Makemake et consortes) on the far fringes of Solar system, yet we somehow missed two planets comparable to Earth? I find it hard to believe - unless they have weird orbits or are really, really far away from the Sun.Well they're calling them ETNOs because of their extreme inclination - if you want to call that a weird orbit... and they're really far away. (I think) the truth is, that up until recently not much attention has been paid to the region beyond Pluto up to the Oort cloud. I think maybe astronomers were too busy hunting for Earth-like exoplanets, and cosmologists too busy pondering large-scale structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannu Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Wait. We can find obiects the size of Pluto or smaller (Haumea, Makemake et consortes) on the far fringes of Solar system, yet we somehow missed two planets comparable to Earth? I find it hard to believe - unless they have weird orbits or are really, really far away from the Sun.Astronomers suspect that there are much of Pluto like bodies on outer solar system. Only small part of them has been discovered, mostly by luck. They are extremely faint objects spread on huge area in sky and therefore very difficult to detect, because there are also huge number of very faint red stars, especially in areas near the plane of the galaxy. Maybe the James Webb space telescope, which will work in longer infrared spectrum, can detect many of these objects. And it would be very exciting if it could find a larger planet or even many planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I love how much the idea of even our solar system is still changing. We might not be able to explore the world any more the way the old explorers could, but this is even more exciting. We live in a wonderful place, just how wonderful we are still trying to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worir4 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I feel sorry for the people that have to write books about the solar system XD Edited January 18, 2015 by worir4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I love how much the idea of even our solar system is still changing. We might not be able to explore the world any more the way the old explorers could, but this is even more exciting. We live in a wonderful place, just how wonderful we are still trying to figure out.We have a huge part of this planet we've only begun to explore - our oceans. Just as every new journey into rainforest jungles reveals new plant and insect species never seen before, more-so occurs with deep dives into the oceans! Life is far more diverse than we realize, or as I suspect - can conceive, and above all so very persistent!*edit*I'm inclined to think many here are too young to remember Surtsey, the volcano which came up from the ocean bottom off of Iceland and broke surface in 1963. A little less than 2 years after doing so, 1965, plant life was discovered growing on its shores. Given the slightest chance to take hold, life will appear and persist! Edited January 18, 2015 by LordFerret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainDreamer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Call them balls of cosmic star stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm inclined to think many here are too young to remember Surtsey, the volcano which came up from the ocean bottom off of Iceland and broke surface in 1963. A little less than 2 years after doing so, 1965, plant life was discovered growing on its shores. Given the slightest chance to take hold, life will appear and persist!Live is a very invasive and persistent mechanism indeed. Give it any chance to gain a foothold and it will take it. Give it none and it might still take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaSilisko Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I wish people would distinguish between something being possible and something being a proven fact. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2011/02/14/no_theres_no_proof_of_a_giant_planet_in_the_outer_solar_system.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I wish people would distinguish between something being possible and something being a proven fact. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2011/02/14/no_theres_no_proof_of_a_giant_planet_in_the_outer_solar_system.htmlI think no one pretends it is proven. Even the thread title clearly indicates the current status of the concept, as noted by the question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainDreamer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Live is a very invasive and persistent mechanism indeed. Give it any chance to gain a foothold and it will take it. Give it none and it might still take it.Reminds me of something me and one of my friend usually quips in philosophy class: "Life is an STD." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaSilisko Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think no one pretends it is proven. Even the thread title clearly indicates the current status of the concept, as noted by the question mark.Not really directed at the thread, more some of the sentiment I've seen in articles and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Reminds me of something me and one of my friend usually quips in philosophy class: "Life is an STD."As is so wonderfully illustrated below, this time redacted: Edited January 18, 2015 by Camacha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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