[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics

[Psycho_zs]

Hi!

I see this great mod is getting expanded pretty extensively.

Would you consider making something like a super-lite version, that would only include unintrusive thrust vectoring/balancing with just on/off switch in the engine's part menu?

[allista]

13 hours ago, Psycho_zs said:

Hi!

I see this great mod is getting expanded pretty extensively.

Would you consider making something like a super-lite version, that would only include unintrusive thrust vectoring/balancing with just on/off switch in the engine's part menu?

Unfortunately, not. It's too much work. But the interface will be getting a major refactoring to simplify things. And you can still participate in the poll on how to do it best:

https://goo.gl/forms/Cxl3Pkk6wbRG3PX93

[sibaar]

I am running 1.1.3 and can't seem to get this thing working. The mod is in my game folder but nothing shows up in the game. Am I missing something? Is there a part I have to add? If there is, I can't seem to find one. I am using the latest version of this mod. Thank you in advance.

[allista]

9 minutes ago, sibaar said:

I am running 1.1.3 and can't seem to get this thing working. The mod is in my game folder but nothing shows up in the game. Am I missing something? Is there a part I have to add? If there is, I can't seem to find one. I am using the latest version of this mod. Thank you in advance.

The latest version is only compatible with KSP-1.2. Use the previous one.

And you need to install ModuleManager as well.

[sibaar]

Just now, allista said:

The latest version is only compatible with KSP-1.2. Use the previous one.

And you need to install ModuleManager as well.

I am using ModuleManager.

 

Where can I find the 1.1.3 compatible version?

[allista]

1 minute ago, sibaar said:

I am using ModuleManager.

Where can I find the 1.1.3 compatible version?

All versions are at the SpaceDock, in the ChangeLog section.

[sibaar]

5 minutes ago, allista said:

All versions are at the SpaceDock, in the ChangeLog section.

Is the utils also required because it still won't work.

Sowwie. noobie here...

Edited October 17, 2016 by sibaar
additional information

[allista]

6 minutes ago, sibaar said:

Is the utils also required?

Sowwie. noobie here...

Yep, AT_Utils are required. But as soon as you install the package from SpaceDock you shouldn't worry about it, as (except for MM) everything is included.

Sorry for short answers, I'm just a little busy, and there's no telling who's noobie and who isn't 

*AT_Utils is just a library common for all my plugins. By itself it doesn't do anything.

Edited October 17, 2016 by allista

[sibaar]

6 minutes ago, allista said:

Yep, AT_Utils are required. But as soon as you install the package from SpaceDock you shouldn't worry about it, as (except for MM) everything is included.

Sorry for short answers, I'm just a little busy, and there's no telling who's noobie and who isn't 

*AT_Utils is just a library common for all my plugins. By itself it doesn't do anything.

Alrighty. Done.

 

Now there is a window.... but it's blank.

[allista]

5 minutes ago, sibaar said:

Alrighty. Done.

Now there is a window.... but it's blank.

Are you playing Career? If so, you will need to purchase TCA subsystem and modules at R&D.

A window in which scene -- Editor, KSC, Flight?

Is it completely blank, or have you just opened the Manual at the status page?

If former, something is wrong and I need to see the logs (KSP_Data\output_log.txt -> zip it -> upload to Dropbox|GoogleDrive|etc. -> share the link).

Edited October 17, 2016 by allista

[sibaar]

Completely blank in-game.

[karimidze]

Sorry for stupid question, but in stock TCA included in only three parts (HECS2_ProbeCore, roverBody, mk2DroneCore) or is it an error from my side? On other parts i see only TCA_Man button in career game. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by karimidze

[allista]

1 hour ago, karimidze said:

Sorry for stupid question, but in stock TCA included in only three parts (HECS2_ProbeCore, roverBody, mk2DroneCore) or is it an error from my side? On other parts i see only TCA_Man button in career game. 

Every part with command capabilities should have TCA. To get TCA window, though, you also need to have engines/RCS. In any case, in editor each part that should have TCA will indicate in info pane either "TCA: software installed" or "TCA: not installed". You can also open TCA MAN and go to the first page -- "Status". There should be some information on TCA modules and, maybe, some information about installation problems (if TCA has detected them).

[PyroSA]

Very Nice! Really impressed.

The only real successful VTOL I built was a heavy MK3 with a BUNCH of engines places on the underside.

Once I had it nicely balanced with the RCS build tool it was somewhat successful on a trip to the moon and minimum, but it was still a hassle switching it around.

With minimal effort this made a decent hover-buggy that I could control well enough to land on the VAB roof.

I'll definitely be digging a bit deeper into the options to see what I can come up with.

[ss8913]

The number of engines required on the bottom really depends on how much the thing weighs and how much the CoM shifts as the fuel burns off.  If you're using really powerful RCS like the ResistoJet units from KSPIE, you can get away with a lot more shift since those things can be tweakscaled up to provide a lot of control authority to offset the off-center VTOL thrust.  However for cargo craft it's usually best, I've found, to place 2 strong engines on the ventral surface of the craft, spaced fore and aft of the max/min CoM points, and set them to 'Thrust' (not 'thrust and maneuver') and use the aforementioned RCS units.  On the KSPIE engines and RCS, trying to use those engines for maneuvering has.. interesting results.  "thrust and maneuver" works fine for stock engines, or at least for engines that react to throttle inputs instantaneously.

[Blackline]

Why is the vertical speed control not available if in Orbit? I wanted to land semi manual, but vsc is hidden until you go suborbital. 

And how can I disable autogear,chute etc by default?

And another thing: tca.user was renamed, but its mentioned this way in all the documentation. Maybe you could spare the next one to find out its throttlecontrolledavionics.user now.

How are reaction wheels used in attitude control? Can I priorize to use them until they are in control saturation bevor spending any fuel on maneuver engines? Are control surfaces used at all?

Edit: oh, forgot: hi there, awesome mod, keep up the good work!!!

Edited October 18, 2016 by Blackline
Be nice

[allista]

53 minutes ago, Blackline said:

Why is the vertical speed control not available if in Orbit? I wanted to land semi manual, but vsc is hidden until you go suborbital. 

And how can I disable autogear,chute etc by default?

And another thing: tca.user was renamed, but its mentioned this way in all the documentation. Maybe you could spare the next one to find out its throttlecontrolledavionics.user now.

How are reaction wheels used in attitude control? Can I priorize to use them until they are in control saturation bevor spending any fuel on maneuver engines? Are control surfaces used at all?

Edit: oh, forgot: hi there, awesome mod, keep up the good work!!!

Because in Orbit there's no notion of vertical speed.

By default you can disable them only on per-craft basis in editor. No global defaults for this yet.

Yep, thanks for the observation! Will correct this.

Reaction wheels are not affected by TCA in any way; the mod only takes them into account in calculations.

TCA is totally blind to lifting/control surfaces; it does not even include them in calculations. I don't have nearly enough knowledge in aerodynamics to do this. At least for now.

In both cases (wheels, surfaces) TCA "uses" them as you do: it changes control input and these modules react as they're programmed to.

6 hours ago, ss8913 said:

 On the KSPIE engines and RCS, trying to use those engines for maneuvering has.. interesting results.  "thrust and maneuver" works fine for stock engines, or at least for engines that react to throttle inputs instantaneously.

I'll look into it, thanks.

[Blackline]

Just to understand it further: TCA does not only control attitude by changing the thrust of engines (by altering their limits) and thus creating a torque, but also 'creates' user-like control input (as seen in the bottom left GUI)? Is this to control the engine gimbals through stock mechanics? Can this be disabled?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Blackline

[allista]

3 minutes ago, Blackline said:

Just to understand it further: TCA does not only control attitude by changing the thrust of engines (by altering their limits) and thus creating a torque, but also 'creates' user-like control input (as seen in the bottom left GUI)? Is this to control the engine gimbals through stock mechanics? Can this be disabled?

Not gimbals; to control the ship. Aside from simple balancing TCA has many autopilot programs and its own version of SAS. When you enable one of them TCA acts like any other autopilot, using standard ship controls (as seen in the bottom left GUI, yes). There's no need to "disable" it, just don't enable anything you don't want.

[Blackline]

Quote: Because in Orbit there's no notion of vertical speed.

I don't understand what you mean by this, or why it should prevent using vsc in Orbit. But this might hit another issue I have: the prograde commmand does not follow my selection (surface or Orbit (or even target)) but rather decides by itself, what prograde is to be used. Are there any threshholds for that behavior change? Wouldn't it make sense to couple it to the users selection?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Blackline

[g_BonE]

Hi,

long time lurker here and wanted to thank You for this magnificent mod! Looks MechJeb might go in retirement soon.

Now the following problem / question:
In my ongoing 1.2 career and a freshly started career all the command modules show "TCA: unavailable" despite having a fuel tank, engine and RCS on the craft and the TCA tech is researched completely. Thus the TCA button only opens the manual and im unable to program engine groups or macros.

Im running quite a few mods too but on 1.1.3 with almost the same mods TCA worked just as expected. Do You have an idea what might cause this issue? Is there anything im missing or misunderstood? Is there a way to enable the full TCA window in the editor without the requirements (engine, rcs, etc.) ?

[allista]

36 minutes ago, g_BonE said:

Hi,

long time lurker here and wanted to thank You for this magnificent mod! Looks MechJeb might go in retirement soon.

Now the following problem / question:
In my ongoing 1.2 career and a freshly started career all the command modules show "TCA: unavailable" despite having a fuel tank, engine and RCS on the craft and the TCA tech is researched completely. Thus the TCA button only opens the manual and im unable to program engine groups or macros.

Im running quite a few mods too but on 1.1.3 with almost the same mods TCA worked just as expected. Do You have an idea what might cause this issue? Is there anything im missing or misunderstood? Is there a way to enable the full TCA window in the editor without the requirements (engine, rcs, etc.) ?

No-no-no! I don't want MJ to retire, I use it constantly!  And I certainly don't want to reimplement all these orbital calculations MJ does!

Don't know what's happening. What the Status page in MAN says?

And no, no way to get the Editor window without engines and working TCA instance inside a command part.

[ThatHomelessGuy]

I like it but If it's a career part or feature it needs to be end game. This takes all the fun out of building vtols. I'm still going to use it near my end game though.

[allista]

5 minutes ago, ThatHomelessGuy said:

I like it but If it's a career part or feature it needs to be end game. This takes all the fun out of building vtols. I'm still going to use it near my end game though.

In career only the basic functionality is available near the start. Everything else is distributed through to the end of the tree.

[ss8913]

7 hours ago, Blackline said:

Just to understand it further: TCA does not only control attitude by changing the thrust of engines (by altering their limits) and thus creating a torque, but also 'creates' user-like control input (as seen in the bottom left GUI)? Is this to control the engine gimbals through stock mechanics? Can this be disabled?

If you want to disable what I think you want to disable (differential thrust in response to control inputs, ie, with 2 tandem engines fore and aft, pitching down with the stick would cause a reduction in thrust on the forward engine causing pitch to happen), set your engines to "Thrust" instead of "Thrust and Maneuver".