What would It take to make Mars's atmosphere semi habitable?

[kStrout]

even if we could create a breathable atmosphere on mars, it still will have 1/3 of earth's gravity. We don't even know if children could be brought up on mars, the low gravity might make them come out deformed. And if there are no children, no reproduction, it's not a colony. This whole idea of colonizing mars might be completely pointless.

[*Aqua*]

Why do you think the children will be deformed? The shape of an unborn child is defined by it's genes, not by gravity.

Or do you mean something different?

[Nibb31]

Do you know the effect of microgravity on a developing embryo? If you do, then you should publish a paper, because scientists have no idea at this point.

[*Aqua*]

Of course I don't know. But given the fact an unborn swims in a fluid in a woman it'll feel almost like there's no gravity. I don't think that there'll huge life-threatening effects in a low-G enviroment.

Didn't scientists send pregnant animals to the ISS?

[lajoswinkler]

Why do you think the children will be deformed? The shape of an unborn child is defined by it's genes, not by gravity.

Or do you mean something different?

Children born by mothers who took thalidomide during pregnancy would disagree.

We simply don't have any evidence to support your claim that microgravity is safe for these things.

And no, floating in liquid is not microgravity. If it was, then people in submarines would be floating all over their chambers.

[Sirrobert]

Of course I don't know. But given the fact an unborn swims in a fluid in a woman it'll feel almost like there's no gravity. I don't think that there'll huge life-threatening effects in a low-G enviroment.

Didn't scientists send pregnant animals to the ISS?

Just because you're floating doesn't mean there isn't gravity. There is still gravity pulling from a single direction, with a specific strenght.

All life on earth has evolved under 1G gravity. Take away the most basic constant of life, and weird things happen.

Yes there have been rats born in space. They had massive trouble with ballance. Can't tell up from down, presumably because they were born without the notion of an up and down

http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v27n1/rats.shtml

Why do you think the children will be deformed? The shape of an unborn child is defined by it's genes, not by gravity.

Or do you mean something different?

Genes are the blueprint. Designed asuming a very specific set of circumstances. Disrubt the circumstances, you disrupt the excecution of the blueprint

[Frozen_Heart]

Genes are the blueprint. Designed asuming a very specific set of circumstances. Disrubt the circumstances, you disrupt the excecution of the blueprint

^ This. Genes are just a set of instructions that can be followed incorrectly if the circumstances are not correct. I've learnt this fact the tough way.

Yes there have been rats born in space. They had massive trouble with ballance. Can't tell up from down, presumably because they were born without the notion of an up and down

I doubt that there would be a problem with Mars gravity. There is still an up and down on Mars.

[xenomorph555]

I say we set off several (over 10) clean hydroden bombs in the poles.

[lajoswinkler]

I say we set off several (over 10) clean hydroden bombs in the poles.

There isn't such thing as a clean nuclear bomb. They are sometimes called clean because their ratios of radionuclide dispersal to explosive yield is smaller than of basic fission bombs, but H-bombs require fission bombs as the stuff that induces the fusion.

Even though such things release tremendous amounts of energy, we're talking about a planet here. It's less than a tickle. Changing Mars is a futile attempt. Building bases is not.

[Nuke]

even if we could create a breathable atmosphere on mars, it still will have 1/3 of earth's gravity. We don't even know if children could be brought up on mars, the low gravity might make them come out deformed. And if there are no children, no reproduction, it's not a colony. This whole idea of colonizing mars might be completely pointless.

have your babies in a 1g centrifuge (corrected for natural gravity of course). build it under ground so that you have more earth like radiation levels as well (as many variables that can be made earth like should be). you would have to stay on it for the duration of your pregnancy (possibly starting with conception, which means it would need to be planned) and possibly the child would need to stay on for longer. then adapt them to mars gravity after puberty.

however i have a feeling on some future mars mission someone will do something they are not supposed to do and end up getting first hand data on mars babies. human nature does weird things.

There isn't such thing as a clean nuclear bomb. They are sometimes called clean because their ratios of radionuclide dispersal to explosive yield is smaller than of basic fission bombs, but H-bombs require fission bombs as the stuff that induces the fusion.

Even though such things release tremendous amounts of energy, we're talking about a planet here. It's less than a tickle. Changing Mars is a futile attempt. Building bases is not.

kinetic energy would do a better job. nukes are nice little energy machines, but they pale in comparison to even a small rock falling from space. find near mars asteroids that come close to hitting it and tweak their orbits with gravity tractors, orion drives, whatever.

[Tealweed]

One proposition I've heard before is to release the large amount of CO2 beneath the surface by heating up the planet a little bit. Though I wonder how badly a runaway green house effect would progress before stabilizing.

[kahlzun]

Isn't Deimos meant to have a lot of ice, and be deorbiting slowly anyway?

Perhaps speed the descent along, get some nice heating effects & liquid water..

[Iskierka]

I see lots of suggestions of greenhouse gasses to heat Mars up, which is strange. Mars really isn't -that- cold - some of its warmer areas are notably above temperatures that can be found on Earth, even outside polar winters. Mars is, however, lacking atmosphere to a huge extent - it's around 100 times thinner than Earth's, and most humans will struggle long-term with even half pressure. Indigenous people of the Andes/Himalayas have micro-evolutions to have much higher red blood cell count, which is a necessity, as babies born to people from other parts of the world simply can't survive at those altitudes.

If you're going to add enough atmosphere for humans, and other Earth-life, to survive, you really don't need to add much greenhouse effect - just having additional atmosphere will do most of that work. You'd likely only need a little more CO2 than the planet already has, depending on how much water you added and how weather systems develop. (Water is another potent greenhouse gas, but has complex effects, as clouds reflect more than is trapped, and atmospheric content is extremely variable over short timespans and in small areas.) To terraform Mars, you'd need to add N2, O2, H2O, and possibly to actually remove some CO2, as its current atmospheric levels may be close to ideal, but the dry ice caps would melt and significantly alter that.

[DerpenWolf]

Isn't Deimos meant to have a lot of ice, and be deorbiting slowly anyway?

Perhaps speed the descent along, get some nice heating effects & liquid water..

That is an excellent point... Mars has a few big rocks in orbit already an maybe we could use some big nukes (A lot of them) and deorbit one of them (there might be a few complaints...).

[RainDreamer]

That is an excellent point... Mars has a few big rocks in orbit already an maybe we could use some big nukes (A lot of them) and deorbit one of them (there might be a few complaints...).

I don't think irradiating the water we want to use is a good idea. How about redirect another asteroid to knock it down? Doing space billiard, with science.

[megatiger78]

Step 1: mirrors at the poles melt ice caps to release oxygen.

step 2: permanent base.

step 3: colony, and specially bred plants help the atmos. people need lighter suits due to more air pressure.

step 4: people can go outside without spacesuits, but still need breathing masks. mars is almost earth.

step 5: mars is as close to earth conditions as it can get. no masks or spacesuits. TREES

Key:

Red Mars (mars suit)

Green Mars (lighter suit)

Blue Mars (no suit)

Mars terraforming plan acording to a book I have

[Bill Phil]

Umm...

Lots of energy, and lots of matter.

[78stonewobble]

Soo.. whats the reason we haven't done any human artificial insemination tests in space? Or let a few happy couples join the ... uhm... 250 mile high club for science?

[*Aqua*]

People go to space for science not for fun.

[Sirrobert]

Soo.. whats the reason we haven't done any human artificial insemination tests in space? Or let a few happy couples join the ... uhm... 250 mile high club for science?

Probably because testing on human embrios is a little unethical

[Nuke]

Probably because testing on human embrios is a little unethical

ethics is the thing you really need to get over if you want offworld colonies. if we want or need to survive off world for more than one generation, we are going to need hard data on human reproduction in non earth-like environments. we can use technology to simulate earth like environments as close as possible, and make it law than all procreation be done in that environment. but even if you have rotating maternity wards/schools with earthlike atmosphere, raditation levels and gravity, there will be cases where for some reason or other it simply is not possible to procreate there. perhaps the centrifuge breaks down and it takes a year to fix it. or perhaps astronauts get frisky on a 2 year mission with no viable early return option. ethically speaking these situations should be avoided at all costs. however human nature pretty much guarantees similar situations will occur.

so the only way to ethically do science on this subject is the clinical approach. its sort of how mental illness is handled, you cant just make people crazy for science, that would be unethical. but what you can do is observe those suffering from it. the scientists are not the cause of the situation and are simply gathering data that may help the case being studied as well as others in the future. what this means for colonization, is that you need to make the procreation facilities a priority. unauthorized reproduction will occur for a variety of reasons as the population grows, and then you can see if all your precautions were neccisary.

[Skyler4856]

Why mirrors? Would it not be preferable to use a high powered laser? I realize that the energy wouldn't be as readily dispersed, but shouldn't logistically it be preferable...

[Sirrobert]

Why mirrors? Would it not be preferable to use a high powered laser? I realize that the energy wouldn't be as readily dispersed, but shouldn't logistically it be preferable...

A mirror uses and focusses the already incoming energy of the sun. A laser would require some power source

[Nuke]

lasers are really inefficient devices.

[RainDreamer]

Soo.. whats the reason we haven't done any human artificial insemination tests in space? Or let a few happy couples join the ... uhm... 250 mile high club for science?

I can't say much about human artificial insemination tests, since I don't know much about if they did something like that or not or has plans to do it or not. They did test it with mice embryo in near zero G simulation, however. What they discovered was that gravity is probably needed for development of embryos. The fertilization process works normally, but the embryos have difficulty developing, with cells having trouble dividing and maturing. They were then implanted to female mice, and some survive to a healthy birth, but at much lower rate than the control group in normal gravity.

As for...well, the 250 miles high club, there has been thoughts put into that. Although there are some difficulty in...logistics for some "happy time" in zero G, that hasn't stop people from designing things to assist with it. Though the most limiting factor for now is just because space flight is still stressful for human, and the ISS doesn't give much privacy for such things, along with more personal relationship stuff. People are quite complex, and they can't just get on with it easily like in the movies. (That said, someone should make a sitcom on the ISS).