STS-7/E Space Shuttle (Stock NASA Replica) Still Flies in KSP 1.4.3 - Re-enters Like the Real Thing!

[Araym]

Inigma: actually I'm using RCS build aid as it was in 0.90, with no particulary issues.

I just tried for fun, and I found it can work as it is also in 1.0 and 1.0.2...

... beside, on my end (like I told during those few exchanges about my prototype wings), as a mod user, and (sadly) after the big engines on the boosters being nerfed as "space engines" not suitable for the lower atmosphere, I'm glad I have TweakScale as always: a 3.75 Mainsail can do the same job, mantaining the "single engine nozzle" x booster, and someway, probably, giving to my new "STS K-7 prototype" a better kick to space (during ascending moments, I barelly go over 50% thottle... or it burns in flames before reaching 15km altitude )...

BUT, unlike you, I'm gladly accepted the new mk.3 shuttle wings, for more ease of my poor laptop (doing probably a little upscaling resize, around 120%, always thanks to TweakScale, to have a better looking shuttle)...

... now I have just to figure the right reentry path:

- in 1.0, I burned my wing strakes, overshooted the KSC by more 100km and splashed down (lost just the remaining wing on impact + engines, but cabin and cargobay were safe)

- in 1.02, I saw probaly less issues of overheating on launch, but I have still to do my first reentry...

Sadly, again, over general improvements from 0.90 (no more "hidden nested wings" to fly) I'm sad about the poor engine choices we had actually (that is why I'm playing a little modded game on my own: no need for a lot of features, but just some different loooking engines, or parts that ease the part count on crafts)

[inigma]

New STS posted! I have posted the STS-5 prototype as STS-4 Space Shuttle 1.0.2 until Squad fixes stock areo. Until then, landings will be an adventure in grinding your teeth, or hair raising overcorrections. Enjoy! OP and stats updated. Test it out, let me know how she flies and any ideas for improvement.

Edited May 3, 2015 by inigma

[Columbia]

Inigma, just as a suggestion, now may be a good time to put up the Solid Rocket Boosters on the shuttle; It seems to be the only solution to the Shuttle not being able to lift off properly at launch, and many others have made the same decision with their shuttles.

I'll assist if you need it. Thanks!

[inigma]

Inigma, just as a suggestion, now may be a good time to put up the Solid Rocket Boosters on the shuttle; It seems to be the only solution to the Shuttle not being able to lift off properly at launch, and many others have made the same decision with their shuttles.

I'll assist if you need it. Thanks!

Thanks. I'm considering solids for STS-5. I have some proprietary solid boosters I've been saving since STS-1... I just need RCS Build Aid to perfect their inclusion if I can.

[inigma]

Inigma: actually I'm using RCS build aid as it was in 0.90, with no particulary issues.

I just tried for fun, and I found it can work as it is also in 1.0 and 1.0.2...

... beside, on my end (like I told during those few exchanges about my prototype wings), as a mod user, and (sadly) after the big engines on the boosters being nerfed as "space engines" not suitable for the lower atmosphere, I'm glad I have TweakScale as always: a 3.75 Mainsail can do the same job, mantaining the "single engine nozzle" x booster, and someway, probably, giving to my new "STS K-7 prototype" a better kick to space (during ascending moments, I barelly go over 50% thottle... or it burns in flames before reaching 15km altitude )...

BUT, unlike you, I'm gladly accepted the new mk.3 shuttle wings, for more ease of my poor laptop (doing probably a little upscaling resize, around 120%, always thanks to TweakScale, to have a better looking shuttle)...

... now I have just to figure the right reentry path:

- in 1.0, I burned my wing strakes, overshooted the KSC by more 100km and splashed down (lost just the remaining wing on impact + engines, but cabin and cargobay were safe)

- in 1.02, I saw probaly less issues of overheating on launch, but I have still to do my first reentry...

Sadly, again, over general improvements from 0.90 (no more "hidden nested wings" to fly) I'm sad about the poor engine choices we had actually (that is why I'm playing a little modded game on my own: no need for a lot of features, but just some different loooking engines, or parts that ease the part count on crafts)

cool!

i will check out RCS Build Aid then.

as for the mk3 wings, they are unfortunately not easily matching to real NASA size and profile. they need further tweaking. for mod players that's not an issue. i like your shuttle!

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Hey Inigma, I've been considering making my own shuttle. Do you have any tips for aligning the thrust and mass?

easy. use RCS Build Aid to adjust your thrust vectors vs remaining torque. Add SAS modules to compensate the greatest amount of torque your craft will ever normally face.

tip: design the shuttle heavy, and test your torque values with the heaviest configuration at all stages of flight.

- - - Updated - - -

New STS posted! I have posted the STS-5 prototype as STS-4 Space Shuttle 1.0.2 until Squad fixes stock areo. Until then, landings will be an adventure in grinding your teeth, or hair raising overcorrections. Enjoy! OP and stats updated. Test it out, let me know how she flies and any ideas for improvement.

Columbia, by all means, if you have solids you'd like to add to an STS varient, go for it! I'd love to see what you come up with. My only frustration with solids pre 1.0 was their lack of performance to participate in the lifting of the STS Fuel Pod subassembly to orbit.

[YangQiming_]

Wow, just downloaded the new version and just a fact: you need do a gravity turn at 1km for me to get the shuttle to stay controlled with the new aero model :-) the shuttle worked like a charm I must say. My shuttle always spins after the booster separation tho >:-)

[inigma]

Wow, just downloaded the new version and just a fact: you need do a gravity turn at 1km for me to get the shuttle to stay controlled with the new aero model :-) the shuttle worked like a charm I must say. My shuttle always spins after the booster separation tho >:-)

Thank you! Glad you like it! I'll be releasing it as STS-5 once they fix aero again.

[inigma]

Muhahahaha.... Success!! Solid boosters (Inigma Industries Proprietary) lifted the STS-5 Prototype shuttle and 42 ton STS Fuel Pod to 200km orbit with 700 units of monoprop left, meaning I probably could have gone to 300km...

STS-5 prototype:

im dancing 'cause I finally met the performance of STS-4 ... with SOLID boosters.

This was a proof of concept. Successful on the first, second, and every try. Wow. Now down to the perfectionist details, and waiting to see what Squad's going to do about stock aero.

- - - Updated - - -

Only downside? 321 parts empty bay. vs 267 for the current liquid model. I might just include this as a sub, but the linkages are so finicky they aren't predictably going to work as a sub. Maybe a separate download.

Edited May 4, 2015 by inigma

[inigma]

The second test flight of the STS-5 Prototype. I missed the flight profile for a 200km orbit as I was just gawking at the beauty of the flight, and barely made orbit with the STS Fuel Pod in the bay, but I did it!

http://www.twitch.tv/inigmatus/v/4676549

As you can tell it's just a concept flight. I haven't added rear booster sepatrons yet, and the struts are not finished on the solids, so the collision with the wing was somewhat expected, and some solid parts baring their wobbliness is also expected. That the shuttle still made orbit in 1.0.2 aero is a testament to its engineering.

Edited May 4, 2015 by inigma

[loch.ness]

Just wanted to say your crafts are awesome and the pictures are alot of help.

I decided that I wanted to try making my own STS while looking at yours. Its no where near balanced or polished yet, but the pictures were big helps on getting design elements right. Mine is no where near as accurate as yours, but it flew eventually. The pictures were a bit help in their own right.

[Nansuchao]

Congrats Inigma. I tried the new version, it's perfect!!! I forgot to add some fuel, so I was short for a total orbital insertion, but with the stock aero it flies very well.

Oh, and for the first time, I was able to splash on water loosing just the wings. Probably a new video coming soon ;-)

[Araym]

... for the lower part count (my poor laptop need a bit of love: 208 parts empty cargo) and just using tweakscale (as you drived me to use it, when I downloaded the service module with the arm to grab things), just before i could see your STS-5 prototype with solid boosters:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

http://imgur.com/a/GxI89

Features:

- 3d Mk.3 Shuttle wings (strakes were used to create a bulge on wing roots, like the real Shuttle) with minimal impact on internal cargobay

- new medium landing gears as a must to use for me too...

- 3.75m TwakScaled Mainsail to boosters (not your fault, but i do not liked the multi-nozzle ones)

- TOTALLY capable to orbit with the 42t fuel pod at any previous orbit like STS-4 0.90

- It's a feather on reentry: bleeded enough speed on hi-altitude (50-45km) you can then almost "stop" it in mid air, nose up 30°, at 10km altitude (... I touched a 50m/s surface horizontal and -6m/s, then pitching down to regain speed to land like a glider). I have to just manage my reentry to actual pinpoint the KSC, but I suppose I could use even the automatic Mechjeb landing path for rockets, as I have plenty of ability to use the same feature to "stop" any overshooting, then land on the airstrip... (still testing: my new job does not allow to play at night as I used )

... it's "not-stock" just 'cause of the TweakScaled Mainsail... for ease to eventually share, as probably my shuttles (K-7M) will be heavier modded, switching the stock nose cone with the OPT's one with built-in rcs, then my single-cgf edited-monoprop AIES engine as OMS, to gain the same thrust as the 10 stock OMS = 20 parts count less on total...

... what probably you could not like about it:

On the orbiter ventral side, wings will cause a little, visible, dent, because mk.3 wings have a large wing roots and I couldn't blend it fully to the main fuselage, to not clip too much inside the cargobay walls (to avoid to mess with subassemblies or cargos)

NOW I should try just your new solid rocket boosters assembly, to rid of any "modded" engine

--- edit:

About the 42t fuel pod: probably it will be better to switch the solar panels in 1.0.2. The one still using now are not foldable back, once deployed, so for any eventual "pod recover from space mission", the cased and foldable version should be preferred...

--- edit 2:

... STS K-7 full ride, to orbit and back:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

http://imgur.com/a/n9wRe

Edited May 6, 2015 by Araym

[Volitaire]

Here are a couple of pictures from last night after I docked two of the STS4's with my station at 85km. Part count with both of them up there is a bit ridiculous but it sure looks awesome!

[Zephram Kerman]

Does STS5 have a name yet? She sure is purdy!

http://www.twitch.tv/inigmatus/v/4676549

Unfortunately, my DSL is, um... "fully Y2K compliant". Twitch is unusable for me because it sends only the highest bit rate. YouTube may be unfashionable nowadays, but it does accommodate my rusty old interplumbing by allowing speed selection. Could you perhaps repost some of these to YT?

[inigma]

Just wanted to say your crafts are awesome and the pictures are alot of help.

I decided that I wanted to try making my own STS while looking at yours. Its no where near balanced or polished yet, but the pictures were big helps on getting design elements right. Mine is no where near as accurate as yours, but it flew eventually. The pictures were a bit help in their own right.

I am glad that you like it! Let me know if you have any questions.

- - - Updated - - -

... for the lower part count (my poor laptop love a bit of love: 208 parts empty cargo) and just using tweakscale (as you drived me to use it, when I downloaded the service module with the arm to grab things), just before i could see your STS-5 prototype with solid boosters:

http://imgur.com/a/GxI89

http://imgur.com/a/GxI89

Features:

- 3d Mk.3 Shuttle wings (strakes were used to create a bulge on wing roots, like the real Shuttle) with minimal impact on internal cargobay

- new medium landing gears as a must to use for me too...

- 3.75m TwakScaled Mainsail to boosters (not your fault, but i do not liked the multi-nozzle ones)

- TOTALLY capable to orbit with the 42t fuel pod at any previous orbit like STS-4 0.90

- It's a feather on reentry: bleeded enough speed on hi-altitude (50-45km) you can then almost "stop" it in mid air, nose up 30°, at 10km altitude (... I touched a 50m/s surface horizontal and -6m/s, then pitching down to regain speed to land like a glider). I have to just manage my reentry to actual pinpoint the KSC, but I suppose I could use even the automatic Mechjeb landing path for rockets, as I have plenty of ability to use the same feature to "stop" any overshooting, then land on the airstrip... (still testing: my new job does not allow to play at night as I used )

... it's "not-stock" just 'cause of the TweakScaled Mainsail... for ease to eventually share, as probably my shuttles (K-7M) will be heavier modded, switching the stock nose cone with the OPT's one with built-in rcs, then my single-cgf edited-monoprop AIES engine as OMS, to gain the same thrust as the 10 stock OMS = 20 parts count less on total...

... what probably you could not like about it:

On the orbiter ventral side, wings will cause a little, visible, dent, because mk.3 wings have a large wing roots and I couldn't blend it fully to the main fuselage, to not clip too much inside the cargobay walls (to avoid to mess with subassemblies or cargos)

NOW I should try just your new solid rocket boosters assembly, to rid of any "modded" engine

--- edit:

About the 42t fuel pod: probably it will be better to switch the solar panels in 1.0.2. The one still using now are not foldable back, once deployed, so for any eventual "pod recover from space mission", the cased and foldable version should be preferred...

--- edit 2:

... STS K-7 full ride, to orbit and back:

http://imgur.com/a/n9wRe

http://imgur.com/a/n9wRe

Is this your updated one on KerbalX? Looks fantastic! Worthy of an OP mention!

- - - Updated - - -

Here are a couple of pictures from last night after I docked two of the STS4's with my station at 85km. Part count with both of them up there is a bit ridiculous but it sure looks awesome!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hLBMdAzSTwI/VUmAu-DFk2I/AAAAAAAAaZQ/ojptCbn-cSo/w1438-h899-no/2015-05-05.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fjAWwOU5I7c/VUmAxj_i4FI/AAAAAAAAaZg/_cszKqYcStY/w1438-h899-no/2015-05-05.jpg

those are beautiful! I have a new desktop background now. Thank you!

Wow, nice station too!

- - - Updated - - -

Does STS5 have a name yet? She sure is purdy!

Unfortunately, my DSL is, um... "fully Y2K compliant". Twitch is unusable for me because it sends only the highest bit rate. YouTube may be unfashionable nowadays, but it does accommodate my rusty old interplumbing by allowing speed selection. Could you perhaps repost some of these to YT?

Thank you!

I do post to YouTube. I only use twitch for the video takes. When I release STS-5 Independence and STS-5E (Solids) I will post a vid on YouTube.

[Jackvony]

Back after really long break cause my computer dieded. Have a new save building a station with your shuttles. Pics coming

[Araym]

Is this your updated one on KerbalX? Looks fantastic! Worthy of an OP mention!

Not any release anywhere up to now: I had no time to do it, and it needed a check about action groups and some visuale tweaks (booster engines were not rotated on their axis simmetrically)...

... untill those tweaks were done (NOW!):

http://kerbalx.com/Araym/STS-K-7-Space-Shuttle-Kolumbus

Mention that TweakScale is MANDATORY for this craft (or boosters will not work)

Tweakscale download: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/112693

I never fly it at full thrust in lower atmosphere (or it will burn ) neither when it reached space (Main Shuttle Engines go hot, so after booster separation is good to go 80% thrust max to not overheat them too much, even if fully 42t loaded: they never exploded even if I left them 100%, but probably it could be risky, as I left go at max throttle only on a pre-test, low, 75km orbit, so they were shut-off very soon )

As always (as your "padawan") I could like if you can take it for a spin in space (maybe to find some bad clipping, eventually, for the shuttle's cargo subassemblies): I tested them a bit, for me are fine, but you are the "master" of space shuttles building for me

[montyben101]

Amazing craft!!! could do with some air brakes somewhere though!

[inigma]

Back after really long break cause my computer dieded. Have a new save building a station with your shuttles. Pics coming

Looking forward to it!

- - - Updated - - -

Not any release anywhere up to now: I had no time to do it, and it needed a check about action groups and some visuale tweaks (booster engines were not rotated on their axis simmetrically)...

... untill those tweaks were done (NOW!):

http://kerbalx.com/Araym/STS-K-7-Space-Shuttle-Kolumbus

Mention that TweakScale is MANDATORY for this craft (or boosters will not work)

Tweakscale download: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/112693

I never fly it at full thrust in lower atmosphere (or it will burn ) neither when it reached space (Main Shuttle Engines go hot, so after booster separation is good to go 80% thrust max to not overheat them too much, even if fully 42t loaded: they never exploded even if I left them 100%, but probably it could be risky, as I left go at max throttle only on a pre-test, low, 75km orbit, so they were shut-off very soon )

As always (as your "padawan") I could like if you can take it for a spin in space (maybe to find some bad clipping, eventually, for the shuttle's cargo subassemblies): I tested them a bit, for me are fine, but you are the "master" of space shuttles building for me

Nice shuttle! I've not had time to do anything but test solids at the moment. I'm not a fan of tweakscaled stock parts, but I applaud the design of your wings! Very innovative. I actually took your idea and tried to come up with some mk 3 wing configuration. I came up with an AWESOME one but not realistic (hey it had unrealistic gaps with wings floating out in space, but who cares, right? it looked awesome!) I too four mk3 strakes along the side of the fuselodge and then spaced out the rear strakes and a mk3 wing to fit the standard NASA shuttle wing profile. Looked great. I didn't test fly it, but if anything it showed me that once Squad comes up with better fitting mk3 wing parts, they will look very awesome! Right now, mk3 wings are each like they were designed by a different subcontractor with no information sharing on final design. heh.

I hope to test your craft when I get a moment to install Tweakscale.

- - - Updated - - -

Amazing craft!!! could do with some air brakes somewhere though!

Air brakes? Hmm.. I might double up the tail rudders and set a hotkey to make them act as brakes on landing just like the real shuttle...

- - - Updated - - -

All: my solids are working great...

except i'm running into design flaws. The amount of struts to keep the clipped boosters from wobbling is exponentially increasing the part count. That, and with 8 solids per booster, I can design a single booster with 16 struts, but when attached to the main shuttle stack, the struts go all wacky and are impossible to fix without some weird bug that create 9 struts for 8 boosters, with the 9th magically appearing unconnected on the other solid booster. Very frustrating. I ran into this problem pre 1.0 so I figure it's a long running bug. I may have to report it if its not already.

I also tried to cover my booster stack with a single inline fairing, but to no avail either. For now the emptied liquid tanks act as a skin, but again it adds to the part count. Currently I'm at 306-336 parts for the STS-5 with solids depending on solutions. Also the SRBs are too heavy for the three chutes to adequately recover them. Argh.

SRBs are just a part count explosion scenario at this time, no matter how much the cookie is cut. I thought I could reduce my wing part counts with the new aero, and I have... by about 20 parts bewteen STS-4 1.0.2 and the STS-5E Prototype (SRBs).

frustrating. but hopefully a solution will be found!

[Columbia]

Oh god inigma, that sounds terrible. Good luck!

Worst case scenario would be having to clip Mainsails.. Imagine the horror.

All jokes aside, I really wish you luck in this design process.. I've never seen someone so dedicated and hardworking to keep a beloved Shuttle up and running for everyone to use. Some others (like myself..) most often abandon their crafts to rot in the shelves, but you are still working long and hard to keep it usable for everyone, whether difficult and frustrating or not.. and I salute you for that.

Kudos!

(Solids in KSP are so.. obsolete XD)

[inigma]

Oh god inigma, that sounds terrible. Good luck!

Worst case scenario would be having to clip Mainsails.. Imagine the horror.

All jokes aside, I really wish you luck in this design process.. I've never seen someone so dedicated and hardworking to keep a beloved Shuttle up and running for everyone to use. Some others (like myself..) most often abandon their crafts to rot in the shelves, but you are still working long and hard to keep it usable for everyone, whether difficult and frustrating or not.. and I salute you for that.

Kudos!

(Solids in KSP are so.. obsolete XD)

Mulbin has his MunBug. He's no longer here but he made it to 11 iterations. I wonder what STS-11 will look like...

[scharlesc]

Tried probably 20 times to get this STS-4 into orbit. mechjeb does not work around 2000M it starts wobbling from side to side with the arc of wobble increasing till it tips over. Tried manually and around 5KM it suddenly jumps as if someone pushed it from behind and it starts spinning. Then the side boosters run out of fuel they come off and break a wing. this is one tough bird to fly.

[inigma]

Tried probably 20 times to get this STS-4 into orbit. mechjeb does not work around 2000M it starts wobbling from side to side with the arc of wobble increasing till it tips over. Tried manually and around 5KM it suddenly jumps as if someone pushed it from behind and it starts spinning. Then the side boosters run out of fuel they come off and break a wing. this is one tough bird to fly.

Default fuel, and no cargo?

[inigma]

Tried probably 20 times to get this STS-4 into orbit. mechjeb does not work around 2000M it starts wobbling from side to side with the arc of wobble increasing till it tips over. Tried manually and around 5KM it suddenly jumps as if someone pushed it from behind and it starts spinning. Then the side boosters run out of fuel they come off and break a wing. this is one tough bird to fly.

Well I tried flying the shuttle with the latest MechJeb.

...and with it I just flew the STS-4 1.0.2 Space Shuttle Independence with STS Fuel Pod to a record breaking 421km orbit and return to KSC Island!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Some notes on MechJeb flying the STS-4 1.0.2 soon to be aka STS-5:

For Ascent Guidance for empty bay or heavy cargo:

set target altitude to 200km

disable limit to terminal velocity

disable throttle limiting

disable forced roll

autostage only until stage 4

As with all STS launches you must manually roll the craft just after launch and before 6km, in order to have the tail facing the ocean so the orbiter climbs on its back and maximize the thrust vectors and weight balance, just like the real shuttle.

Then nearing 50km, roll belly down and let MJ burn you to 200km, and have it autostage the External Tank.

Turn on RCS and jet away from the tank to avoid colliding with it, and manually enage the next stage when clear. MJ will circularize your orbit.

Easy peasy. I hope.

bear in mind that the shuttle has a tendency to roll while burning the Space Shuttle Main Engines and using MJ since MJ by default does not use SAS. This is because of the right side fuel line on the External Tank being placed there. It offsets the fuel dump causing the roll, which you should manually correct as you fly it up. The fuel line is intended to be there to be accurate to the actual NASA shuttle external tank look. Without MJ, you use SAS and there is no roll.

Just note that the shuttle flies just fine as-is, but if you put any cargo in the bay, you're going to need to fill up the external tank a bit, starting with the center tank, and then the botttom tank. only the STS Fuel Pod cargo (42 tons) requires all tanks to be full, even on the boosters.

Let me know if you still can't make orbit with the above instructions.

Edited May 9, 2015 by inigma

[inigma]

STS-5 Space Shuttle Independence and STS-5E Space Shuttle Constitution development is now complete. Yeah! It's too late for me to publish them... but if I could get a few volunteers with a hefty cpu to at least test fly the STS-5E before I release both crafts tomorrow (Sunday), that would be awesome!

The STS-5E is an Extended version of the STS-5, comes with solid boosters, STS Elevator, and STS Fuel Pod already loaded in the bay. This version is meant for realism, and as such is a whopping 432 part count craft file. But she flies great, and can even do a first level timewarp. I was able to deploy the payload to 425 km and come back home without using its fuel.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

STS-5E pre-release: Download

Let me know how she flies for you. I'm looking for at least one good report.