Jump to content

STS-7/E Space Shuttle (Stock NASA Replica) Still Flies in KSP 1.4.3 - Re-enters Like the Real Thing!

inigma

By inigma
in KSP1 The Spacecraft Exchange

 Share

Recommended Posts

Araym

Araym

Posted
Posted (edited)
Not sure what's up but my 7E just blows up on the launch before I can even do anything.

It could be an old bug, already know by Inigma:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/126574

The solution worked at the time was to rotate (in the VAB) the craft; if the belly was alligned east-west, SAS clipped in the fuel tank exploded... if it was alligned north-south, they will not...

In my workaround of the same problem, I suspect that is related to this mod that forces surface attackability in parts not programmed to do so, used then to add the SAS units inside the Main Tank.

If changing rotation of the Shuttle at launch does not work for you, you could use "my building trick":

- load your shuttle in the SPH (has better camera control than the VAB)

- move the camere "inside" the main tank

- remove ALL the SAS unit inside (take count of how many they are: I didn't erased them, but just set them aside in the SPH, to do so) CTRL+Z is your friend, to undo all your changes, if by chance you select a tank rather a SAS

- activate with ALT-F12 the debug menu, and activate on it the option the forces part clipping

- at this point, rebuild the same number of original clipped SAS using the now available internal nodes: I added 6-5 SAS units per node*, spreading them in any one inside the Main Tank, to avoid a longer stack attached in one node only (to avoid they could bend out the main tank during launch)

*When you have a node available, I used the same one to add 5-6 SAS in the upward direction, and another 5-6 SAS stack in the downward direction. This is to avoid an issue with stock KSP that bends too long stack. If you repeat the same procedure for any node available inside the main tank, enabled with the "part clipping" option, you have plenty of room to hide inside the Main External Tank the same number of SAS units used by Inigma.

... after I did it, I never experienced any explosion again.

It the very same tecnique used in my own version of a modded Space Shuttle, that is rated to be launched facing any direction without any issue :P

Edited by Araym
Link to comment
Share on other sites
inigma

inigma

Posted
  • Author
Posted
It's been a while to my last post here (even if I left behind me an ispiration for Scathalh's spin-off shuttle)...

... so I should show what, in my Modded KSP, I developed.

More iterations of the "K-series" were tried to adapt them to 1.0.4, but noones felt right, to me.

Then, in this days, I went for a total, different, approach: up to K-7, I limited my enginering skills to "modify" Inigma's shuttles, but I was lacking to adapt them in the new aero enviroment...

... now I started it from scratches, to overcome some bugs (mostly due to porting parts from subassemblies, leading to random poking struts going impredictables, or to get rid of the "desctructive thermal behaviour" of SAS units inside the Main Tank - Hints to Inigma: forcing surface attack with EEX are the cause: I went with the KSP debug/cheat option from ALT-F12 menu to place small stacks of SAS - to avoid bending issues - in the inner nodes, after building the main tank, and I have no more problems...), to put in a better use my modded KSP.

Tha leads to my new STS-K10 Olympus shuttle!

http://i.imgur.com/A1NAcKc.png

Notable features:

- better wing profile, closer to the NASA's Shuttle, with the frontal Big Wing Strakes upscaled a bit (120%) with TweakScale

- newly engineered OMS pod mounts

- new rear RCS mounts

- same (old) 2x AIES Galaxy VR-2 engines, converted to monoprop, to take the OMS engines role

- new Upper and Bottom ends for the Main Tank (from SuicidalInsanity's Mk.3 Expansion pack)

- a couple of Airbrakes near the tail (I got rid to the 2x clipped tail, to use the doubled ailerons like brakes: it leads generally to flying imbalances: this is the only differences to the most closer looking Shuttle i build)

- stolen from Inigma's STS-7E, the external rocket boosters cases made from liquid fuel tanks... but inside I built my own stacks in "my way"

http://imgur.com/a/DThlc

http://imgur.com/a/DThlc

In the empty and 42t configurations, it flies like a charm...

I still have to check the reentry tonnage capabilities (and eventually, any imbalance to put masses locked to payload cargobay frontal or back node) but I'm positive on it...

(Some parts looks "not so good" 'cuz I'm running KSP in a very poor laptop, and generally I tweak graphics and - if possible - the bigger textures to lower my RAM usages. For example, here, the mk.3 parts have very smaller textures than the originals I downloaded)

--- Edit ---

Testing with the SpaceHab, as always my shuttles, it plunges on the ground pretty hard on final landing approach.

Reverting to use a couple of little wing/control surfaces moved inside the cockpit made it work: now it flies like a charm *_*

It gets now the "Approved" sign by my Space Agency.

You are a worthy STS architect. Hats off to you (and for finding the surface attach vs clip heat fix). I'm learning from you and will develop STS-8 when 1.1 comes out with it in mind assuming its not fixed by then.

Thank to you and everyone for providing support for the STS shuttles. I've been off and on away from KSP the past few months. In the meantime my 7 year old son and I have been building this in a multiplayer KSP:

rma9KK9.png

F6pojdy.png

- - - Updated - - -

TheDoctor;2209736']So I have the STS-7. It's a fantastic machine and I'm much obliged for you having designed it inigma. I'm having an issue that I'm hoping you can shed some light in it for me. I installed a mechjeb on the shuttle' date=' but when I use the assent guidance the shuttle rolls belly towards the ocean, instead of tail to the ocean. What can I do to correct this issue? Or am I going to have to launch it manually and then use the mechjeb to work the rendezvous?[/quote']

The fuel line is responsible for the roll. Make sure you have SAS controlled by the the shuttle, not Mech Jeb, else you will be correcting the roll manually.

- - - Updated - - -

Mechjeb could be a bit of "stupid" if not right set, flying a Shuttle, because the flight profile of a shuttle requires a lot of different actions.

What I'm using, lately, with my launches (both with Inigma's STS-7E and my own variations BUT CONSIDER I'mj using the the SOLID booster version, so mileage/trajectory could vary on Liquid Fueled Boosters):

First, open the Ascend Guidance module and edit your Ascent Path: I have mine set as

-"Turn Start Altitude = 1km"

-"Turn start Velocity = 100 m/s"

-"Turn End Altitude = 70 km"

-"Final Flight Path = 0 or -1°" (set to your preference, just to stay at the edge of Kerbin atmosphere during burn, under 70km altitude, and let the Main Tank deorbit itself after spent: "0°" are good for the max payload/fully fueled main tank; some negative numbers could be plotted on the run, if you are noticing a too vertical climb)

-"Turn Shape = 65%"

THEN you have to add some more parameter in the Ascent Guidance itself. I turn on the following parameters:

- Prevent Overheat set ON (... not really needed - it's a remnant of old engine heating process during launch -, but just selected for good safety procedure :P)

- Limit to Terminal Velocity set ON

- Limit Q pressure, set to 20000 pa

- Keep Limited Throttle set over 75% (if you are flying not at max payload capacity with fully fueled Main External Tank, you can experience to arrive both at max terminal velocity or max Q very early in the flight and you NEED the liquid fueled engine on the Orbiter to "push" the full stack straight in the ascent path: MOSTLY needed if flying a solid booster version, as the SRBs themselves are not throttable. With a Liquid fueled booster version could be set OFF, as both booster and main orbiter engine will throttle down together)

- Corrective Steering set ON

- Force Roll set ON, with (at launch) climb set at 180° and turn at 180° (to perform the "roll program" just after take-off and ascent with the Orbiter belly UP - tail to the ocean - like the real Shuttle launch)

- DO NOT let the "Autowarp" option "ON"

THEN you have to "help/nurse" Mechjeb at some stages of the launch:

1- Just after launch, when it start to roll, help with some roll input from keyboard (Mechjeb is a bit slow on rolling, sometime setting half way to a proper roll to 180°)

2- At Booster fuel depleting, wait a second before eject them: without the push from them, the Orbiter will pull for a moment more vertical, in the climb. This straightening of the flying path will help at the ejection moment, to avoid any collision of the Boosters with the Orbiter wings

3- When the remaining Orbiter+Main Fuel Tank stack arrives at +50km altitude (clearing the thicker part of Kerbin Atmosphere), it is the moment for the "belly down roll" program: on the Force Roll line on the Ascent Guidance, set the "turn" parameter (the second box) from 180° to 0°. The Orbiter will start to roll: AGAIN, like in the first phase of the launch (point 1- here in this guide), help the slow Mechjeb with some keyboard input (left alone, sometime it take ages to complete the manouver, sometime it set itself halfway, not completing it)

4- Let the Shuttle arrive at the desidered orbital altitude apopsis: if the flight is gone smoothly, you should have an apoapsis set to your desidered altitude, with a periapsis still UNDER 70km (This is achieved around 60/65km altitude, with the Orbiter still slowly ascending... WORRY only if your Orbiter is loosing altitude: look at the "Special Advice" further in this guide). This is INTENDED, to deorbit the spent Main Tank.

It will allow to decouple the now empty main tank with the Orbiter keeping a good horizontal attitude, still in the very last layer of the atmosphere, to avoid collision with the Main Tank.

Just after separation, cleared the Main Tank, ignite the OMS engines (I set the main tank separation and OMS engine ignition on separate stages, prior to launch, on the VAB: it helps to avoid them to eventually fire when the orbiter is still too much closer to the Main Tank, maybe crashing on it, if Mechjeb eventually tries to adjust the final ascending apoapsis - remember that you are still in the atmosphere, so a little bit of drag could lower it, and Mechjeb is always trying to compensate immediately as you have any engine active)

5- and finally: let the Orbiter settle to the node for circularasing the orbit. ONLY at this point, I usually turn "Autowarp" on: the Orbiter should be at this point in space, and it is plenty safe to let it warp at your heart content :P

6- Apoapsis kick with OMS, Orbit achieved... Profit!!!

With this ascent program, I'm usually able to achieve +300km circular orbit with the 42 tons payload/fully fueled main tank, having enough monoprop fuel to deorbit...

Obviously, lower tonnage payload will need less fuel on the Main Tank, and will achieve easier high orbits with more monopropellent fuel margin for the OMS: that are up to you to experiment, but, generally, does not involve to change a lot the ascent parameter I'm using...

SPECIAL ADVICE:

I fly generally with the Ascent Path window open (to see the actual flying path - a white line - projected on the programmed one - the red line). After the "belly down roll" at +50km altitude, you will notice a lower, horizontal white line, in the atmosphere, rather the programmed red one: it is intended with the shuttle, to keep the Main Tank debris in it, after separation. It's a good habit I got, to manage it with some "course correction", adding a couple of degrees more or less plotted on the "Final Flight Path" line: if your launch is going too much higher angle of ascent, you will need MORE monopropellant to circularize... and this could lead to not having enough to deorbit safely (mostly notable with the 42 tons MAX payload)...

If the "Final Flight Path" is too much negative, instead, you could not clear the atmosphere during/after Main Engine burn and Main Tank separation (on the Ascent path you will notice the line going "down", back to Kerbin ground). Like the previous case, if you are loosing altitude, you will need more OMS burn to correct it/bring the Orbiter to space. It will again leads to NOT having enough to deorbit and/or not achieving orbit at all...

(Remember: monopropellent fuel is not so much, if you not ascended properly. A bad ascent profile could lead to not achieve the desidered orbit, OR - worse - to a stranded Shuttle in orbit without enough fuel to deorbit itself)

--- edit ---

You can also look at my previous post here or directly here to the Imgur album itself, for a flight of one of my modded Shuttle variant flight, that flew with MechJeb active (I was gathering data to refine the craft itself, so I needed a consistent and standard flight path): it show the ascent and the command I set on Mechjeb phase by phase :D

Wow! Amazing guide Araym. Mind if I add a link to this to the OP?

- - - Updated - - -

what am I missing here? the sts 7 shuttle says i dont have the parts for the ship?? what mods do I need to add to make it work?

Are you sure you're not also adding the STS Service Module? If so it requires KAS, KIS, and IR.

The shuttle itself is 100% stock. Redownload the shuttle. There should be nothing in the bay. If you're still getting mod warnings, make sure your universe doesn't have a modded ship somewhere interfering.

- - - Updated - - -

No mods it is entirely stock. Are you using it in career mode or sandbox?

Thanks ExplorerKlatt for helping out. You guys make working in Spacecraft Exchange awesome! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jon144

Jon144

Posted
Posted

I have always admired your shuttle Inigma. Especially since it was originally made before 1.0. After seeing you build your shuttle and After I visited the real Atlantis orbiter in Florida I knew that I had to build my own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Columbia

Columbia

Posted
Posted
Speaking of heating glitches, I'm having a rather unfortunate one where one of the cubic octagonal struts in the service module's robot arm overheats and explodes every single time I open the cargo bay. I hope KSP 1.1 fixes this bug.

Yes, Squad probably did more bad to the heating system than good.. Most clipped parts start to overheat and blow up. I too hope it's fixed.

Also, I'd like to present another fanwork: Your shuttle, in blueprint form!

What do you think?

CUCwhKQ.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mythic_fci

mythic_fci

Posted
Posted (edited)

Firstly, I can't express my praise for this shuttle and my gratitude for you having made it so well. It glides like a charm and is now my main heavy module lifter and crew/cargo transfer vehicle for my space station core module - I've even made an OMS fuel extension that gives the shuttle about ~400m/s more d/v, at the expense of some cargo space. Just one question - why'd you switch from using the KR-2L to the KS25x4 on the liquid booster version of the shuttle? IMO the older versions with two KR-2Ls looked better, but I can understand the reasons for switching if performance was improved.

P/S: 1.0.5's out with new fancy SSME analogues that gimbal too! Might want to consider switching...

Yes, Squad probably did more bad to the heating system than good.. Most clipped parts start to overheat and blow up. I too hope it's fixed.

Problem will be fixed in 1.0.5. Hopefully things don't go boom anymore (although this is KSP, I'll MAKE them go boom)

Also, I'd like to present another fanwork: Your shuttle, in blueprint form! -imgsnip-

That, sir, is beautiful and deserves to be on the front of the first page. Amazing job!

Edited by FCISuperGuy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
inigma

inigma

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This shuttle is freaking awesome! After a terrible accident in the upper atmosphere (aka heating glitch), I was still able to safely land the shuttle with the whole tail end and half the weight gone!

http://imgur.com/a/HgCUg

- - - Updated - - -

Amazing story. Amazing landing. You sir, are an amazing pilot. I probably woulda flipped it at landing approach. Hah! :D

- - - Updated - - -

Amazing blueprint. Posting to OP for sure (and to KerbalX for the non SRB varient)

- - - Updated - - -

I have always admired your shuttle Inigma. Especially since it was originally made before 1.0. After seeing you build your shuttle and After I visited the real Atlantis orbiter in Florida I knew that I had to build my own.

Thank you Jon. It's good to know people like it! It really did consume a lot of free time in January '15. The shuttle is designed on the shoulders of giants who came before me. Shuttle building was always the most difficult design challenge in KSP for years for many people. Only a few look-alikes were published here (I could only count two). Then Westi's shuttle was just simply a stroke of genius with his use of a stack of SAS modules. I ran with the mk3 parts, made a full STS size shuttle, learned from gliding attempts by Rune, and cargo attempts by Naito, and took all that they learned to the final level of a mk3 shuttle capable of orange tank lifting. And the idea to make all kinds of cargo modules for it too (and a video). Was a lot of fun. Now Naito, and finally a few others are keeping up the shuttle building race and exploring new ways to keep things efficient. I look forward to 1.0.5 and 1.1.

- - - Updated - - -

Firstly, I can't express my praise for this shuttle and my gratitude for you having made it so well. It glides like a charm and is now my main heavy module lifter and crew/cargo transfer vehicle for my space station core module - I've even made an OMS fuel extension that gives the shuttle about ~400m/s more d/v, at the expense of some cargo space. Just one question - why'd you switch from using the KR-2L to the KS25x4 on the liquid booster version of the shuttle? IMO the older versions with two KR-2Ls looked better, but I can understand the reasons for switching if performance was improved.

P/S: 1.0.5's out with new fancy SSME analogues that gimbal too! Might want to consider switching...

I'm glad you find it useful and fun. :) You are correct that the older KR-2Ls looked better, but 1.0 dropped their performance drastically, making 42 tons to orbit (which is my design target for this craft) not a reality without using two KS25x4 boosters. Naito pointed this out and was the first to adopt them, so I simply ran with his discovery during the update. They've worked beautifully since. But it did lead me to finally develop the holy grail of SRBs that would lift the shuttle and 42 tons cargo to orbit. STS-7E is that magnum opus. I'm looking forward to testing the new SSMEs, but as what happened with 1.0 mk3 wings by Porkjet, I don't have my hopes up that they will actually complement the design. We'll see. I may have to rebuild entirely when 1.1. comes out.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Squad probably did more bad to the heating system than good.. Most clipped parts start to overheat and blow up. I too hope it's fixed.

Also, I'd like to present another fanwork: Your shuttle, in blueprint form!

What do you think?

http://i.imgur.com/CUCwhKQ.jpg

Amazing blueprint. Posting to OP for sure (and to KerbalX for the non SRB varient)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Araym

Araym

Posted
Posted

Wow! Amazing guide Araym. Mind if I add a link to this to the OP?

Yeah! Obviously you can.... but look again at the original post: I did a little change, later, to the guide :P

I found that is better to put the "turn end altitude" at 65km, to get rid of the External Tank debries, and also to add a little more ceiling in max orbital altitude: even if there is still a little drag, i guess that the Oberth effect of a "lower periapsis" (even if in atmosphere) pushed the max apoapsis higher....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
mythic_fci

mythic_fci

Posted
Posted

I've made a small subassembly mimicking the STS Extended Duration Orbiter (EDO) pallet; however, unlike the real one, instead of fuel cell reactant, this one contains 1600 units of monoprop, giving the shuttle almost twice its regular d/V. I've been using it on most of my space station assembly missions so far. Due to its small size, it won't affect payload capacity and size that much. Should I post it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ExplorerKlatt

ExplorerKlatt

Posted
Posted
I've made a small subassembly mimicking the STS Extended Duration Orbiter (EDO) pallet; however, unlike the real one, instead of fuel cell reactant, this one contains 1600 units of monoprop, giving the shuttle almost twice its regular d/V. I've been using it on most of my space station assembly missions so far. Due to its small size, it won't affect payload capacity and size that much. Should I post it?

I would like to see it, maybe give it a try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
inigma

inigma

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I've made a small subassembly mimicking the STS Extended Duration Orbiter (EDO) pallet; however, unlike the real one, instead of fuel cell reactant, this one contains 1600 units of monoprop, giving the shuttle almost twice its regular d/V. I've been using it on most of my space station assembly missions so far. Due to its small size, it won't affect payload capacity and size that much. Should I post it?

Yes post it, with pics, and I'll add it to the OP and KerbalX hangar. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mythic_fci

mythic_fci

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, due to lack of time IRL and issues with the spacecraft (KSP's bug of "Collided with Launch Pad" mid-air), I've just decided to post some pics from a previous mission's setup.

Built after it was realized that the Shuttle had a very small delta-V budget for rendezvousing and docking with medium-LKO stations (300-400km) with heavy payloads, this pallet contains enough monoprop (1600 units) to get heavy payloads up to a station while still leaving an adequate margin for docking the shuttle, undocking, other maneuvers, and reentry. I've found that with my own flight profile, it almost doubles the delta-v on-orbit with an empty cargo bay, from ~500m/ to about ~950m/s; with a full cargo bay (containing my 25.1t station service module inc. engine and fuel), it gives the shuttle a reasonable amount of d/v (~500m/s), compared to an unusable ~200m/s or so without the pallet.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

DL Link: http://kerbalx.com/fcisuperguy/STS-EDO-Pallet

(Inigma, feel free to put this into the STS subassembly hangar)

Edited by FCISuperGuy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mythic_fci

mythic_fci

Posted
Posted (edited)

The new 1.0.5 preview vids show a KS-25 SSME analogue with a HELL of a lot of vectoring capability... In the video, it shows the liftoff thrust as 937.4kN, which is around 100kN more than the current Skippers on the STS and should allow for a bit more lifting capability. Also, the vectoring means the solid-rocket version of the STS should be MUCH easier to control and that some of the reaction wheels may be removed (at least on the LF one).

Scott Manley's Preview (look for KS-25 at ~2:00 in):

Also, new heating physics are coming in 1.0.5! No more spontaneous explosions! (although I'm still replacing the RTG with a real fuel cell on my shuttle(s))

Edited by FCISuperGuy
bleh I hate formatting
Link to comment
Share on other sites
inigma

inigma

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The new 1.0.5 preview vids show a KS-25 SSME analogue with a HELL of a lot of vectoring capability... In the video, it shows the liftoff thrust as 937.4kN, which is around 100kN more than the current Skippers on the STS and should allow for a bit more lifting capability. Also, the vectoring means the solid-rocket version of the STS should be MUCH easier to control and that some of the reaction wheels may be removed (at least on the LF one).

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMoUZz_IWs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMoUZz_IWs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>[/youtube

Look for it about 2:00 into the video.

Also, new heating physics are coming in 1.0.5! No more spontaneous explosions! (although I'm still replacing the RTG with a real fuel cell on my shuttle(s))

I'm looking forward to rebuilding the STS in 1.0.5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...