Female Kerbals

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

That is quite sexist. You probably shouldn't generalize 50% of the population into 1 type.

But it's true. Look for it in other mammals. Where female, and male organisms strive for mating. That's humans, but add free thought. That's why women in the past (BC - 19th Century) where mistreated. Because males are BIOLOGICALLY STRONGER, because of the amounts of testosterone they produce

EDIT: this was written and posted before Tao said that. I will try and refrain from posting about biology again

[Claw]

Yet another reminder to stop making grand sweeping claims about people. If you want to discuss this development in a civilized way, then keep on topic and keep it civil.

[AbhChallenger]

I don't really get why people seem to be getting so wound up about this.

Because in my opinion they associate developers choosing to implement female characters into their games as caving to feminism.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Master Tao
you were warned

[tater]

My daughter was excited. If she plays more KSP, win!

[Parkaboy]

Oh God forbid I mean any harm to women, and their past. I don't want to have inequality in the world, to the point where I would kill oppressors to get people better lives. But I think that MAKING PEOPLE GUESS WHAT IT IS, instead of announcing it is the issue. The way they market it makes it seem like there will be nothing else. Personally, I would like to have the developers talk openly about features like this, and put pictures up for people to critique. I would rather open development rather than closed, "hype" inducing guessing games.

I thought the game was fun. And for the matter, the mystery hardly lasted more than a day. Is it enough to get so upset?

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

I will restate my opinion on this:

I don't mind that they are adding this. But they could've waited, openly talked about it, or pick another feature of this guessing game

[Richy teh space man]

I think having female Kerbals will be a positive addition to the game.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

I thought the game was fun. And for the matter, the mystery hardly lasted more than a day. Is it enough to get so upset?

Because of the FEATURE. That's why I am upset. It could of been anything, but it was a feature that wasn't needed, and doesn't change anything about the game in any way.

- - - Updated - - -

I think having female Kerbals will be a positive addition to the game.

Please explain how it will be a positive addition, besides sales.

[AbhChallenger]

This is a really damn stupid idea. Possibly the worst one I've seen from Squad in a long time.

I've already got one "Val" annoying me in a space program! Couldn't it have been "Sally"?

They don't directly name Kerbals after real life astronauts. Also Sally did a hell of alot more for our nation's space program than just her spaceflight.

[Robotengineer]

Oh God forbid I mean any harm to women, and their past. I don't want to have inequality in the world, to the point where I would kill oppressors to get people better lives. But I think that MAKING PEOPLE GUESS WHAT IT IS, instead of announcing it is the issue. The way they market it makes it seem like there will be nothing else. Personally, I would like to have the developers talk openly about features like this, and put pictures up for people to critique. I would rather open development rather than closed, "hype" inducing guessing games.

I prefer an open dev cycle as well, as with what happened with 'The Barn'. I think the reason they did not do that, is because they were already set on having female kerbals, so exposing themselves to critique would have caused even more division than it has already. Also, if they had talked about before, and they decided to withdraw female kerbals, it would have been critcized by by the media, and the STEM folks. It's pretty much politics.

[FlowerChild]

There are valid concerns. "How much time was devoted to this?" or "Will this bump any features off 0.91?" However, I saw little of that in the other topic.

This part is strange to me, as I don't think I saw any arguments in the other thread made against the female Kerbals that weren't related to development time. I know for certain that's all my comments were related to in viewing the addition of female kerbals as something that was completely unnecessary and which adds the danger that Squad will be forced to spend more time addressing complaints in the future as a result, no matter how careful they were about avoiding gender stereotypes.

Take for example the overblown name "Valentina" itself. I think it could be quite reasonably argued that name for the first Kerbal female encourages the objectification of women by making a strong associated between them and a holiday themed towards romance. It's subtly saying "the primary purpose of women is love". Put another way, it sounds like a name for an adult dancer.

I am not personally making that argument mind you. What I am saying is that there was previously no gender issue in KSP. Now there's potentially big ones and if that's the case, it's inevitably going to consume additional development time over what was previously a non issue.

Edited January 24, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Voidryder]

[quote name=Parkaboy;1689678

##snip##

The point here is that' date=' while it might not add value to the game as you perceive it, the value that it adds to the game from a girl's perspective might be immesurable.

##snip##

Agree. Women have played major roles in spaceflight and still are. Past time they were represented in KSP. Good going Squad.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

I prefer an open dev cycle as well, as with what happened with 'The Barn'. I think the reason they did not do that, is because they were already set on having female kerbals, so exposing themselves to critique would have caused even more division than it has already. Also, if they had talked about before, and they decided to withdraw female kerbals, it would have been critcized by by the media, and the STEM folks. It's pretty much politics.

Yes, but with "The Barn", they where openly critique. Even if it was harsh, it was still tips. Like B9 talking about the things that where wrong. And the community trying to get them to change it. Not get rid of it, just adjust it so it is better.

[Parkaboy]

Because of the FEATURE. That's why I am upset. It could of been anything, but it was a feature that wasn't needed, and doesn't change anything about the game in any way.

In my point of view, it's a feature that was very needed, and adds a lot to the game. Not in a gameplay sense, but in a political sense. I don't want to repeat myself, so I'll just refer you back to my first post in the thread. I get the feeling you didn't really read it.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

#anippity snip#

I am not personally making that argument mind you. What I am saying is that there was previously no gender issue in KSP. Now there's potentially big ones and if that's the case, it's inevitably going to consume additional development time over what was previously a non issue.

This is also what i'm getting at.

- - - Updated - - -

In my point of view, it's a feature that was very needed, and adds a lot to the game. Not in a gameplay sense, but in a political sense. I don't want to repeat myself, so I'll just refer you back to my first post in the thread. I get the feeling you didn't really read it.

May I refer you to:

What I am saying is that there was previously no gender issue in KSP. Now there's potentially big ones and if that's the case, it's inevitably going to consume additional development time over what was previously a non issue.

[Nitrous Oxide]

I can understand the position of people who are struggling with RAM limits. I would also like to say that the assets of a female Kerbals will likely not increase the RAM enough to be a problem.

Fair enough, but space plane parts, new buildings, and who knows what they add after this is more where I'm coming from... I'd just like some reassurance that they're at least aware of the problem before they add so much to the game that they don't know what to start fixing...

I for one already use a TextureReplacer pack with female heads, so it's kinda moot for me personally, as it will actually stockify something I currently run (well, uh... about that...) a mod for.

[Whirligig Girl]

Relevant:

https://rebeccahains.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/2014-12-06-lego-friends.jpg

Edited January 24, 2015 by Master Tao
no inline reaction images

[klgraham1013]

Wasn't there a gender issue before? I know that's the reason I used Texture Replacer to add women, because the stock game didn't have any.

[asmi]

They don't directly name Kerbals after real life astronauts. Also Sally did a hell of alot more for our nation's space program than just her spaceflight.

Valentina is an obvious exception. Oh - and by the way she is alive and well. I had an honor to meet her in person once.

[Parkaboy]

What I am saying is that there was previously no gender issue in KSP. Now there's potentially big ones and if that's the case, it's inevitably going to consume additional development time over what was previously a non issue.

That's fantastically naive. It's like saying that feminists created the problem, and everything would be fine as long as women were contented to be just housewives and mothers.

You're wrong. Not having girls in the game was a very big gender issue, one that was being contested for some time now. You may have missed the threads on the subject, but they were usually heated and ended up closed by the moderators.

[AbhChallenger]

.............

I am not personally making that argument mind you. What I am saying is that there was previously no gender issue in KSP. Now there's potentially big ones and if that's the case, it's inevitably going to consume additional development time over what was previously a non issue.

I HIGHLY doubt Squad would be stupid enough to give this character a look that would generate controversy. They are not going to give her the Laura Croft chest nor make her thinner than the kerbals already in the game. (Which would break the EVA model) She will be a Kerbal. The same Kerbal we say "Whoops sorry" when we strand them on a planet or forget to pack a chute.

[stargazer1235]

I for one think this is a positive move by Squad from a purely mechanical point of view. The Kerbal model has remained basically the same since this game became available in 2011, it is one of the oldest unchanged assets in the game. Besides the guys in the space buildings, all your astronauts look exactly the same, this move by Squad is an indication of their commitment to the new 'Beta' state of the game, the idea of going back and Redoing and improving the work done in earlier versions.

The addition of a new model is just the start of that, it is possible that this might lead to a 'Kerbalizer' (god who remembers that) system in the game. Where the Astronauts have certain features, like certain types of hair or facial features and that you can customize them to your own taste, thus creating a Xcom kind of situation where you get more attached to them since you invested time into them. Like I said I see this as a good thing.

[Snarfster]

Why is it such a big deal that they add female Kerbals? I'm sorry, I fail to see the issue here.

And, like the post above me states, who knows, we might end up with Kerbals with identifiable features apart from three oranges and a lot of greys. Good thing.

[Louella]

Because of the FEATURE. That's why I am upset. It could of been anything, but it was a feature that wasn't needed, and doesn't change anything about the game in any way.

Please explain how it will be a positive addition, besides sales.

There is a way for female kerbalnauts to change things about the game, and for it to be a positive addition.

And that is, that it provides opportunities to divide the engineering/science/piloting skills differently.

If the female kerbalnauts are implemented with the possibility to have a seperate skill set or skill tree available to them, then it gives players, and modders more options to do things.

like in other games, where gender is one of the ways in which variation between character builds is achieved, and that is then a tool for modders to build upon.

[FlowerChild]

You're wrong. Not having girls in the game was a very big gender issue, one that was being contested for some time now. You may have missed the threads on the subject, but they were usually heated and ended up closed by the moderators.

Where I think you're wrong here is that I don't think there were any boys in the game previously either. As far as we knew, they were all hermaphrodites, with this I think that Squad has basically just added gender to the game when it wasn't previously there.

I HIGHLY doubt Squad would be stupid enough to give this character a look that would generate controversy. They are not going to give her the Laura Croft chest nor make her thinner than the kerbals already in the game. (Which would break the EVA model) She will be a Kerbal. The same Kerbal we say "Whoops sorry" when we strand them on a planet or forget to pack a chute.

I would argue they've already made a mistake through naming her "Valentina", as described in my previous post, which I think is a name better suited to an adult dancer than an attempt to bring any form of gender equality to a game.