[Techtree][WIP] Road to Kosmos (v0.0.3 preview)

[Niemand303]

This should support a rescale mod. I mean, remember that Apollo Style doesn't even make sense on the Mun because of efficiency (I proved this in my science fair project, although it was previously proven anyway), and Mercury-Redstone rockets could make Kerbin orbit without too much fuss.

It will include a rebalance of some parts, so that Mercury-Redstone will be suborbital, Saturn V will be Mun/Minmus only etc. The stock parts will be untouched, however. They will be just incorporated into the nodes, corresponding to capabilities.

If only I could find the reason of the bug...

[dimovski]

In my opinion, a resized and rescaled Soyuz and Soyuz utilities module should be used as Zarya, to be placed just above LEK. You might consider moving both of them a section to the right, as I don't see how LEK would work out without even a functioning Zenit, let alone the Energia!

[Niemand303]

In my opinion, a resized and rescaled Soyuz and Soyuz utilities module should be used as Zarya, to be placed just above LEK. You might consider moving both of them a section to the right, as I don't see how LEK would work out without even a functioning Zenit, let alone the Energia!

I'm sorry, I meant LKM, the modified 2-seat LK, not the Energia variant (I've found cool info on the Energia LEK, so it will be anyway). :3

And I've figured out the bug, so I'm advancing more and more into the latest nodes.

[Niemand303]

Almost a half of the tree is done! Although, I think, the prices should be changed.

[Niemand303]

By the way, comrades, if you have any suggestions for custom experiments - I'd love to incorporate them to the mod!

[lextacy]

I hope the focus in this mod is to give us the realistic real world tech tree and contracts. I hope you wont waste time on making part mods that has already been done by others. Id rather have a quality mod over a mod that has redundancy and billions of parts. Looking forward to it!

[Niemand303]

I hope the focus in this mod is to give us the realistic real world tech tree and contracts. I hope you wont waste time on making part mods that has already been done by others. Id rather have a quality mod over a mod that has redundancy and billions of parts. Looking forward to it!

For the techtree, I'm trying to do. I found a bit late about cool stuff called Integrated Space Plan, and its kerbal adaptation here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109821

For the contracts: I have no idea on how to mod them and what they should be like, since I'm playing with Science Sandbox mostly. So, if someone can help me with that part, I would be very grateful.

For the parts: The issue is that I want my mod to be RAM-friendly, meaning that large mods like FASA shouldn't be necessary, replacing where possible the modded parts with stock. However, some parts are very unique, like Atlas and solid boosters used for Explorers. But I'll try to keep the number of parts to minimum. Tantares is quite heavy, but relies on texture reuse and brings no plugin dependencies and stuff, so it's definitely a go.

And to be noted, this version of the tree is far from being complete. Many things are still temporary, until I come up with better solution. Although, I fear that things might go like a Russian proverb says: "there is nothing as long-lasting as placeholders".

[lextacy]

good to hear!

[Niemand303]

Everyday progress pic!

As an addition, I plan on splitting the mod into three "phases":

Phase 0: the parts, made introduced by this mod are rearranged into stock three, which is untouched.

Phase 1: current phase, where the structure of nodes is more chronological than logical

Phase 2: reorganizing the historical tree so that it has more logical and improve the pacing, without hopping too much

Phase 3: Phase 2, and reorganization of the future exploration programs, instead of putting them in one-two-three nodes.

Phase 0, 1 and 3 will have their separate downloads.

[tjsnh]

This has some great potential. I've been using a similar custom-tree myself (though only by removing, and re-arranging, parts with module manager) with the tantares mods for quite some time now.

Looking forward to seeing the results.

Also - where can I get that awesome V-2 ?!

[Niemand303]

This has some great potential. I've been using a similar custom-tree myself (though only by removing, and re-arranging, parts with module manager) with the tantares mods for quite some time now.

Looking forward to seeing the results.

Also - where can I get that awesome V-2 ?!

Thanks! For the V-2, it's in TantaresLV now.

[TheBedla]

First of all, this seems awesome. I was hoping something like this would hatch, and I can see how Tantares is inspiring in this way.

By the way, comrades, if you have any suggestions for custom experiments - I'd love to incorporate them to the mod!

As you mentioned, a meaningful way for stations and (light) station maintenance would be almost necessary. This could be done with contracts (I often found myself dismissing dozens of contracts just hoping to get another "Build a station in LKO with room for X Kerbals" contract), which would be the easiest version.

From the pure Science perspective, there could be a simple system of experiments that would have various combinations of the following conditions:

a) location (obviously)

number of seats/kerbals on the station/ship (ideally the number of seats would be higher than the number of kerbals require to promote "realistic" station and crew size)

c) a specific module (which could be represented in various Salyut/Spacelab and MIR and ISS/Freedom components)

d) maybe some time aspect, but this would not be necessary

Maybe the experiments could be set up so that even their physical recovery would not bring back the entire science sum (if that is possible to set up) and would require processing in the stock science lab and/or delivery of multiple in multiple ships, so you would be forced to do some servicing, if you wanted to get all the science from a specific set of conditions.

In addition to station experiments, having some sort of telescope experiments would be nice, and I believe these have been implemented in various mods already, it might be worthwhile to check them.

[tjsnh]

I've been using the mod "contract configurator" for a custom designed series of "progression" contracts.

IE: orbit a sat , orbit a kerbal, put a sat in mun orbit, land kerbal on mun, leave kerbin SOI with manned mission and return to land safely, send probe to another (any) planet, etc etc etc.

It adds a bit of depth beyond "explore minmus" , and allows another path for science points beyond the repetitive "land a materials bay in every biome and return to kerbin" flights we all slog through...

[Niemand303]

First of all, this seems awesome. I was hoping something like this would hatch, and I can see how Tantares is inspiring in this way.

As you mentioned, a meaningful way for stations and (light) station maintenance would be almost necessary. This could be done with contracts (I often found myself dismissing dozens of contracts just hoping to get another "Build a station in LKO with room for X Kerbals" contract), which would be the easiest version.

From the pure Science perspective, there could be a simple system of experiments that would have various combinations of the following conditions:

a) location (obviously)

number of seats/kerbals on the station/ship (ideally the number of seats would be higher than the number of kerbals require to promote "realistic" station and crew size)

c) a specific module (which could be represented in various Salyut/Spacelab and MIR and ISS/Freedom components)

d) maybe some time aspect, but this would not be necessary

Maybe the experiments could be set up so that even their physical recovery would not bring back the entire science sum (if that is possible to set up) and would require processing in the stock science lab and/or delivery of multiple in multiple ships, so you would be forced to do some servicing, if you wanted to get all the science from a specific set of conditions.

In addition to station experiments, having some sort of telescope experiments would be nice, and I believe these have been implemented in various mods already, it might be worthwhile to check them.

Thanks! Everyone thinks of contracts, so I should definitely take a look on this. For the stations, I'd prefer having something like "science generator", which will generate science points non-stop while certain parts will be present on the station. The contract idea is, imho, better for modular station (mid/late-game), something like "add part X to your LKO/HKO station" etc. I will take a look on this after finishing the tech tree itself.

On the proposals:

c) - will be definitely implemented (thanks to the dedicated Kvant-1 parts, Beale!)

d) - might be good for non-modular stations OR as a "prolongated habitation studies" contract

I've been using the mod "contract configurator" for a custom designed series of "progression" contracts.

IE: orbit a sat , orbit a kerbal, put a sat in mun orbit, land kerbal on mun, leave kerbin SOI with manned mission and return to land safely, send probe to another (any) planet, etc etc etc.

It adds a bit of depth beyond "explore minmus" , and allows another path for science points beyond the repetitive "land a materials bay in every biome and return to kerbin" flights we all slog through...

Thanks for pointing out the mod that can help in doing all that stuff! Yeah, I'm thinking about adding two or more agencies, for USSR and USA respectively with their storylines. As you both pointed out, contracts are very important for making this mod better, so I'd stick with Career too, not only with Science Sandbox.

Unfortunately, almost no progress today and from now on every Tuesday due to university stuff.

But tomorrow will be a good day for two reasons, which will be presented tomorrow!

[sp1989]

Specifically probe, lander, and rover missions with specific goals. There aren't or atleast I have not seen one are rover missions. Also another mission that comes with BTSM is crash probe into x planet or moon. So early contracts to collect seismic data or even just crash probe missions. They are pretty realistic because very early moon probe missions were just designed to crash into the moon.

[tjsnh]

Rover missions are hard to make. The closest you can get currently is to require a certain part (say, a specific wheel) be on a probe - but you can brute force the contract just by sticking the wheel on the side of a probe.

It's an interesting idea though .. might be possible to jurry rig a contract to require science data from a probe returned from multiple biomes or something.

[Niemand303]

Specifically probe, lander, and rover missions with specific goals. There aren't or atleast I have not seen one are rover missions. Also another mission that comes with BTSM is crash probe into x planet or moon. So early contracts to collect seismic data or even just crash probe missions. They are pretty realistic because very early moon probe missions were just designed to crash into the moon.

I remember seeing at least one mod with rover missions, but I don't know if it's still supported, I don't usually play career.

I will look into configs, so that there will be several agencies:

UKKR:

• Pravitelstvo - UKKR Government (I'll stick with kerbalized names, it's KSP, not a Paradox Grand Strategy game), which gives prestige-rich tasks
  
• Akademiya Nauk - Science Academy, gives scientific missions
  
• Voyenpred - Military representative, it will give missions to test launchers with a test payload for its launch capabilities

USK:

• Green House - basically, the same as Pravitelstvo, mostly about prestige and money
  
• KASA - gives exploration and scientific missions
  
• Strategic Command - same as Voyenpred, gives missions for testing rockets with a test payload.

And for the progress, here are some news on the Atlas:

- - - Updated - - -

Rover missions are hard to make. The closest you can get currently is to require a certain part (say, a specific wheel) be on a probe - but you can brute force the contract just by sticking the wheel on the side of a probe.

It's an interesting idea though .. might be possible to jurry rig a contract to require science data from a probe returned from multiple biomes or something.

Since I use DMagic as a dependency, there would be a set of specific science instrumentation made for rovers, which may be used as required hardware in a contract.

[tjsnh]

Nice atlas! Where did it come from?

Is there a version without the USAF logo?

[Niemand303]

Nice atlas! Where did it come from?

Is there a version without the USAF logo?

It is made specially for this mod, as I think FASA is too large of a mod to be dependent of. To fill the gaps, new parts will be introduced by the mod.

The model is by SnowWhite, the texture's from Beale.

For the non-USAF version, I think I should talk to Beale, but I think it's pretty this way too.

[passinglurker]

By the way, comrades, if you have any suggestions for custom experiments - I'd love to incorporate them to the mod!

I'd like to suggest medical microgravity and life support experiments for station modules like salyut and whatever you put together for skylab. After all their original purpose is to developing the means and technology to live for extended periods of time in space regardless of if there is a life support mod installed.

Actually scratch that after thinking about it I realized that stock station contracts fill the same role and stop you from doing the cheap tactic of building a reusable interplanetary spaceship instead and carting it around to different planets to gather the science that's meant for stations.

Edited February 11, 2015 by passinglurker

[Whirligig Girl]

Why do we need a special part for the Atlas? We can build one out of stock parts. Is it because it's a balloon tank?

[Niemand303]

I'd like to suggest medical microgravity and life support experiments for station modules like salyut and whatever you put together for skylab. After all their original purpose is to developing the means and technology to live for extended periods of time in space regardless of if there is a life support mod installed.

Actually scratch that after thinking about it I realized that stock station contracts fill the same role and stop you from doing the cheap tactic of building a reusable interplanetary spaceship instead and carting it around to different planets to gather the science that's meant for stations.

Since I'm fan of Science Sandbox, I'd have also a non-contract mechanism to get science from the stations.

Why do we need a special part for the Atlas? We can build one out of stock parts. Is it because it's a balloon tank?

It's because of that decoupler, actually. I wanted to replicate the 1.5 staging Atlas has, without having to incorporate large mods like FASA as requirements.

[biohazard15]

I love that Atlas! Do you plan to release it as a stand-alone mod, without dependencies?

[Niemand303]

I love that Atlas! Do you plan to release it as a stand-alone mod, without dependencies?

Yep, the mod will have a "light" version, with parts only.

[biohazard15]

Yep, the mod will have a "light" version, with parts only.

Awesome!

Also, would it be possible to use the "full" version without SDHI, even without Orion (or replicating it with other parts - from SpaceY and MRS, for example)? One of its dependencies is RealChutes, and I'm not too keen to use it.