[0.90] Lazor System v35 (Dec 17)

[Romfarer]

hello,

could you make a tutorial or a video, because I'm sorry but I I understand absolutely nothing to your mod...

do not get me wrong

French fan...

I have started another round of formatting the op in an attempt to make the system easier to understand.

What exactly is it that makes it difficult?

[Angarl]

Well it took a while with a lot ALT-TABing but I think I finally understand enough of it. I don't think the only way to target something is to get a Tracking Station Linkup but I can't figure out another just yet, and I'm still having a little trouble with the manual stuff but I can now work the Fuel transfer, the EVA and the Tracking Station Link.

It's a fun mod and now that I know how to use a reasonable amount I'm really enjoying it.

Awesome work!

[Romfarer]

Well it took a while with a lot ALT-TABing but I think I finally understand enough of it. I don't think the only way to target something is to get a Tracking Station Linkup but I can't figure out another just yet, and I'm still having a little trouble with the manual stuff but I can now work the Fuel transfer, the EVA and the Tracking Station Link.

It's a fun mod and now that I know how to use a reasonable amount I'm really enjoying it.

Awesome work!

There are at least two ways to target stuff.

1. Press the hotkey 1 on your keyboard and just click on what you want to target.

2. Open the target tab and click on the vessel/object/celestialbody you wish to target, then press the target button. (The list has to be populated first, either by tracking station linkup, LIDAR or manual scan with the green lazor)

Always nice to hear that someone like the mod

[Romfarer]

I finally managed to make the Celestial Bodies show up in the target cam

Btw is there anything else that would be usefull for the numerical displays?

[Barie]

the awesome bombs/missle's are missing in the beta8patch.rar

[Romfarer]

The bombs will come back strong in the next version. I wrote a new guidance system for them, thats the 3rd time i start over from scratch on that system.

[coolmodi]

Good to hear about the rockets, i just LOVE them

But they allways hit around 20-50m ahead of their target(on the ground) what makes them quite useless

[Romfarer]

Turns out it is not so trivial to make guided missiles that work and hit reliably both in space and on the ground Especially with fast moving targets. Let me give you an example. Target moving at 2km/s, and the missile is moving at 2.5km/s. Now if the missile comes at the target from ahead of it, and the framerate is updated every 0.02 sec. How many meters is it between the updates? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader, but i can reveal that in high speed interceptions you will find that the missile is usually only inside the blast radius in one or two of the frame updates. PhysX does assist a lot though, i.e. i have tested the scenario above and the hit was recorded even though my missile was never closer than 5 meters from the target.

[Romfarer]

I'm making a graphical orbital calculator for lazor system. It is the most complicated thing i have made so far

The red lines is your phase angle, and the red dotted line between those is the orbit required to do a successfull transfer burn. Another way to say it is: When the orbit you are at and the red orbit aligns perfectly, it indicates that your current orbit is co-planar with the orbit of your target body. This is the optimal starting orbit of the hohmann transfer.

The blue lines is the phase angle at the point to start the transfer burn. And the blue elipse indicates what the hohmann transfer orbit will look like. Inspecting the end point of this orbit (the point where the blue elipse hits the orbit of the target body) you can see how far off from the target you will end up. So this is a reference that can be used to fine tune the elevation of your starting orbit.

The display to the right has the phase and departure angles you have seen before in other plugins. ToF stands for Time of Flight and indicates how long it will take to reach your target body. And the delta v is the extra velocity you need to complete the transfer.

I still have some work to do to finish this, more precisely i have to get the inerplanetary transfers working. I'd be happy for any suggestions you might have.

[The Destroyer]

Thanks for tutorials! BUMP! Now I can beam down kerbals from orbit

Also, INTERPLANETARY SYSTEM? Awsome!

[The Destroyer]

Hey romfarer, does the EVA suppport have limits? because i was in a 72 km orbit around kerbin, and wanted to beam down my kerbal, so the main laser touched the ground, and i clicked the button, but he only got off a ladder. Is it because im moving? too high?

[Romfarer]

Hey romfarer, does the EVA suppport have limits? because i was in a 72 km orbit around kerbin, and wanted to beam down my kerbal, so the main laser touched the ground, and i clicked the button, but he only got off a ladder. Is it because im moving? too high?

Eva support does have some limits. In the case of teleportation the maximum teleport-out range is currently slightly over 11km. You may have noticed that this is about the same range the hit markers for lazor vision will go. The reason for the limitation is simply that lazor system use the colliders to detect hits and beyond 11km they seem to be removed by the game engine. The maximum teleport-in range is 95km since this does not require the lazor hitting anything. The reason your kerbal ends up on the ladder is because that is the default teleport-out spot when the lead lazor hits nothing.

Teleportation was designed as a means of bringing lost kerbals back to the vessel, either because they had drifted too far away in space, fallen off the plane or walked too far away on a planet. I believe it is possible to make the teleport-out and in have a much longer range. I have added it to my list of things to do but i cant promise when it will be changed.

[Oicani]

I'm making a graphical orbital calculator for lazor system. It is the most complicated thing i have made so far

Oh baby. This is so cool.

[The Destroyer]

Thats too bad. I wanted to beam down kerbals like in star trek XD

[T-Pilot395]

I have absolutely no idea on how to use the tractor beam's "hover" effect. One ship in the SPH tried it, flipped nose up 90 degrees (it was a VTOL mind you), and crashed. Same thing with a second design.

I've given up on my Cargo Lifter until I know how to use the tractor beam's "Hover".

On a side not the topic dosen't seem to list anywhere how to use "Hover" and "Lift" at the same time. :/

[Romfarer]

Thats too bad. I wanted to beam down kerbals like in star trek XD

I am a huge fan of star trek Thats where i got the idea for the teleportation system. I'll fix the teleport at some point when i am done with the transfer calculator

I have absolutely no idea on how to use the tractor beam's "hover" effect. One ship in the SPH tried it, flipped nose up 90 degrees (it was a VTOL mind you), and crashed. Same thing with a second design.

I've given up on my Cargo Lifter until I know how to use the tractor beam's "Hover".

On a side not the topic dosen't seem to list anywhere how to use "Hover" and "Lift" at the same time. :/

First of all it is probably best if you build your first hover craft in the VAB as it is a lot easier to get the symmetry right.

Furthermore the topic has a guide for the tractor beams, but i realize it is probably too vague. Improvements are coming.

In short this is how you hover:

1. Create a vessel in the VAB. Command pod + a fuel tank. Place the magenata lazors in groups of 6 on that tank.

2. When on the launchpad, point the lazors at the ground. Hit the hover button and adjust the altitude with the up and down buttons.

3. You can see how much force the beams are putting out on the display at the bottom of the tractor beam panel. If they are at max power, your craft is too heavy and you will need more tractor beams. It is also helpful to use Lazor guided flight in the "retrogee" mode that way your vessel will automatically be facing upwards.

Edit: I added some pictures to the topic that shows how to use the hover system.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Romfarer

[Matzenino]

Hey Romfarer when are you going to add "Spaceplane" compatibility to the hover beam?

It is really a shame that my cargo ships cannot take off because the system tries to push them up in a 90 degrees angle.

[Romfarer]

Hey Romfarer when are you going to add "Spaceplane" compatibility to the hover beam?

It is really a shame that my cargo ships cannot take off because the system tries to push them up in a 90 degrees angle.

I did some tests with this and allthough i have seen this 90 degree bug i couldnt reproduce it. Are you rotating the command pod or something? If you have a stock .craft file please attach it.

[T-Pilot395]

First of all it is probably best if you build your first hover craft in the VAB as it is a lot easier to get the symmetry right.

Furthermore the topic has a guide for the tractor beams, but i realize it is probably too vague. Improvements are coming.

In short this is how you hover:

1. Create a vessel in the VAB. Command pod + a fuel tank. Place the magenata lazors in groups of 6 on that tank.

2. When on the launchpad, point the lazors at the ground. Hit the hover button and adjust the altitude with the up and down buttons.

3. You can see how much force the beams are putting out on the display at the bottom of the tractor beam panel. If they are at max power, your craft is too heavy and you will need more tractor beams. It is also helpful to use Lazor guided flight in the "retrogee" mode that way your vessel will automatically be facing upwards.

Edit: I added some pictures to the topic that shows how to use the hover system.

Fast reply, thanks! I always thought it would stabilize the craft, not actually push it off the ground.

One more question, does the weight of the craft carrying the load or the weight of the load impact the tractor beam's pull/hold efficiency?

[Romfarer]

One more question, does the weight of the craft carrying the load or the weight of the load impact the tractor beam's pull/hold efficiency?

Both effect the tractor beam's efficiency. In the case where you are using one tractor beam system to lift a craft. It's weight will be proportional to the amount of tractor beams you need and 2. The more tractor beams you have on a vessel, the harder the controller will have to work in order to keep the craft at altitude.

In the case where you have two tractorbeam systems operating. I.e. one system for hovering and another to lift something, both systems will affect eachoter. The total weight of the vessel, craft + lifting load will determine how many beams you need to hover. And the accelleration of the lifting system, will also affect how much the hover system has to work.

[Oicani]

Romfarer, you mentioned that VAB part thing I was asking people to do on the IRC, but I went afk in the middle of it. Are you going to try it? No pressure.

[KospY]

Romfarer, you work and your investment on that plugin are amazing. I can't imagine the time you spend coding this beast :-0

But, I can't help thinking that you mod is too overkill, as it add too many things at the same time, without be really related (ex : afterburner, night vision, remote detonate, etc...). Moreover, some features are great but some other one prevent me to use your mod because they are too "cheated" for me. (mainly teleport, tractor beam, lazor fuel transfer)

I think a separated version of your work will be a lot better. The minimum thing for me would be to separate non lazor required things : KPS, night vision, map augmentor, target cam and guided flight (why use lazor on that ?)

People will be able to get only what they want and the UI will be a lot more simple because things are separated.

For exemple, KPS will be a separate download with a part and it's own DLL and the GUI will be available only from the map view.

Tell me what you think.

Edited October 8, 2012 by KospY

[Romfarer]

Romfarer, you mentioned that VAB part thing I was asking people to do on the IRC, but I went afk in the middle of it. Are you going to try it? No pressure.

I can't remember what we talked about, sorry. But since anything is possible im sure that is possible too =p

Romfarer, you work and your investment on that plugin are amazing. I can't imagine the time you spend coding this beast :-0

But, I can't help thinking that you mod is too overkill, as it add too many things at the same time, without be really related (ex : afterburner, night vision, remote detonate, etc...). Moreover, some features are great but some other one prevent me to use your mod because they are too "cheated" for me. (mainly teleport, tractor beam, lazor fuel transfer)

I think a separated version of your work will be a lot better. The minimum thing for me would be to separate non lazor required things : KPS, night vision, map augmentor, target cam and guided flight (why use lazor on that ?)

People will be able to get only what they want and the UI will be a lot more simple because things are separated.

For exemple, KPS will be a separate download with a part and it's own DLL and the GUI will be available only from the map view.

Tell me what you think.

I spend a lot of time on this mod, thanks for noticing

I see what you mean by "it does too many things" and i kinda get that a lot. However this is not really a mod anymore, more like a mod system. Some of the things you can do with the system are flat out op and one day that will change, if i have the will to continue until then ;-) But that said, teleport and tractor beam is here to stay. Do you have any suggestions to make these systems less "cheat"? And by the way, what makes lazor fuel transfer cheaty?

Some people may also find the ui to be intimidating at first. I'm willing to change it if i get some suggestions about what to display differently.

I may sound negative but don't get me wrong, i really want to make the system more user friendly. You mentioned to make split the system into different parts. I did make a modular system where things can be attached and i do plan on expanding on that and i'm probably going to move some features over to modular parts, it just takes a lot of time and i reguarly find myself stuck in some coding problem. Like just now i have been sitting for days trying to figure out how to make my new orbital calculator more accurate and take elliptical orbits into account.....

But anyways, thanks for your suggestions. And i would really like to know if you have suggestions in regards to making the systems less cheaty, etc. Cheers.

[KospY]

When I say cheaty, I simply think that some systems sound too futuristic and immersion breaking for KSP. The operating range of lazor system are also too high for me.

This is a completely personal opinion and I didn't criticizing your work at all, as I think you are in the top list of the best plugin dev out there

About the UI, I didn't use your mod a lot because of what I say in my previous post, so I will not really help you a lot. It's again my personal opinion, but I will say that you need to get rid of the big animated red button cluttering the UI (even if it was really cool ), and replace it by something more discrete and less Noisy. I also think you need to do something about the floating button beside the lazor system UI. They move when you open them and it can be quite frustrating, maybe simply integrate them on the lazorsystem UI like toggle button.

If you split some features one day, the KPS system is one of my favorite sub-system, so please split it first It can also be shared as a common system for other mods (for ex : kethane detection)

Anyway, I'm just making suggestions. I know that it take a lot of free time and personal life are just more important . So take all the time you want.

Edited October 8, 2012 by KospY

[Romfarer]

Will get back to you tomorrow on that KospY.

Finally after many many many hours of work i got the eliptical hohmann transfer approximation algorithm working. So all of this work went into making the bob's estimate you can see in the screenshot. (the cyan colored line) It is an approximated phase angle when going to planets that has a slightly eccentric orbit. You'd be surpriced how much 0.05 eccentricity makes the regular phase angle (blue line) miss by. I just tested it and i only had to burn for a couple seconds in the direction of duna to intercept it's soi.