Help Making Space Shuttle

[TronX33]

I am trying to create a space shuttle, however, when I attempt to make that iconic wing, the CoL is way behind the CoM. If it will make it better, I will install NEAR, but not FAR. I am attempting to make a STOCK Space Shuttle, and am fully aware of KSO, so please don't suggest getting the KSO mod pack.

Edited February 9, 2015 by TronX33

[*Aqua*]

So... what's your problem? The CoL behind the CoM sounds good.

[T-Bouw]

Sounds like you're too hung up on moving the CoL. I know, there's not much you can/want to change about the wings, being so iconic that they are.

Try moving the CoM instead. Not just adding weight, but try to relocate heavy components more to the rear if you can. And/or swap out heavy components for equalivalent but lighter ones.

It should be a little behind the CoM, indeed, not "way behind" like you said.

I don't know the "sweet spot" for a shuttle though. Perhaps some of the Shuttle-experts can pitch in on this.

Edited February 9, 2015 by T-Bouw

[TronX33]

Sounds like you're too hung up on moving the CoL. I know, there's not much you can/want to change about the wings, being so iconic that they are.

Try moving the CoM instead. Not just adding weight, but try to relocate heavy components more to the rear if you can. And/or swap out heavy components for equalivalent but lighter ones.

Well, I can maybe replace my quad cluster of 1.25 m engines with 2.5 m engines that are heavier. I will change the thing to solved if it works. I have already relocated all my tanks to the rear, and the empty cargo bay is in front.

[Kami_K220]

Scott Manely has recently done a video on this if you havent seen it.

. Under Stock aero the fuselage doesn't create lift like in the real world so must be replaced with wings. Other tips I can add is keep your CoM close to your cargo bay so there wont be large changes when you unload heavy items. Lastly CoM should remain pretty constant between full tanks and empty tanks.

[Alshain]

Having recently accomplished this (NOTE: I did use FAR), I can tell you that you shouldn't need to worry about the tanks depleting evenly. If you build your plane first (with no fuel, as you expect to land), then mount the tanks in the correct position, it should move your center of mass forward from where the plane would have it by itself. So, there is no concern of your center of mass ever being behind center of lift as the tank depletes.

Just make sure when you place your tank, you have more of it ahead of the center of mass than behind.

Building the plane part is a lot easier with shuttles because you only have to plan for a one way trip... down. So you can put the landing gear anywhere and you don't have to worry about picking up enough speed. The trick is definitely the rocket part... that and landing without engines. You get one shot, make it a good one.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Alshain

[capi3101]

Try RCS cylinders to move the CoM aft. They add a fair amount of mass (4 of them are equivalent to one of the large Monoprop tanks) and they're fairly inconspicuous. If you do this, be careful that the CoM doesn't shift aft of the CoL...

You might want to start using RCS Build Aid if you're not using it already; balancing the rest of the craft so that the CoM doesn't shift is a pretty important part of making bonafide shuttle designs in the first place, and then you can adjust your wings from there.

[RocketPilot573]

In my shuttle I placed fuel tanks in the front as counter weights (my CoL was too far forward). Indeed, with current aero model the shuttle really cant fly.

[TronX33]

Thanks for the help, I just decided to add an extra MK3 Monoprop tank (My ms is two cluster of 4 monoprop engines), and changed the wings from there, and it works very well. Changing to solved.

[LethalDose]

So... what's your problem? The CoL behind the CoM sounds good.

The OP said the CoL was "way behind" the CoM. In those situations you get a lawn dart with almost no pitch control, which is problematic when you're trying to land or slow down.

[Alshain]

The OP said the CoL was "way behind" the CoM. In those situations you get a lawn dart with almost no pitch control, which is problematic when you're trying to land or slow down.

He completely edited his original post. It is nothing close to what it was when all of us were commenting.

[*Aqua*]

The OP said the CoL was "way behind" the CoM. In those situations you get a lawn dart with almost no pitch control, which is problematic when you're trying to land or slow down.

I'm not sure if that's the real problem. "Way behind" could mean, the CoL is one meter behind the CoM (-> agile plane). Or 20 meters (-> lawn dart). Also he didn't ask a question so I still don't know what The Engineer's problem is. That's why I asked.