Skylon spaceplane

[RedDwarfIV]

This is a British-designed fully reusable runway takeoff and landing spaceplane, utilising a form of air jet/rocket hybrid motor to power itself into orbit. The engine is currently in testing, as this BBC news report shows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782

Here is a basic design plan for you to look at:

It has been said that with funding, this craft could be launched within ten years. The European Space Agency has found nothing wrong with its design.

[Agamemnon]

i was waiting if someone will post this thing here as it was on the bbc title page

the most important thing is: skylon is planed to be rapidly reusable SSTO...

[RC1062]

This thing\'s been going for years. I\'m glad people have started to notice.

It is a very interesting principal. I hope they don\'t lose funding this time.

[Agamemnon]

if anyone is interested a little bit more in this vehicle, here are two links:

the home page of reaction engines - the developer of the plane: http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/

a discussion thread in nasaspaceflight.com about skylon with one or two developers from reaction engines participating: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24621.0

[RedDwarfIV]

This thing\'s been going for years. I\'m glad people have started to notice.

It is a very interesting principal. I hope they don\'t lose funding this time.

Its on the news because they are testing the engine cooling system. Or, as my Dad put it, 'A fridge on the back of a jet.'

[mincespy]

Hopefully this will get proper funding, and not like what NASA gets.

[Polecat Industries]

I just heard about this today, while I was bored at school.

[Agamemnon]

Its on the news because they are testing the engine cooling system. Or, as my Dad put it, 'A fridge on the back of a jet.'

actually, it is not an engine cooling system, what they are testing. they are testing cooling of air entering the engine when the vehicle is still in the atmosphere and the engine is working in the air-breathing mode (in a way similar to jet engines, but as it is a rocket engine, it needs liquid oxygen - hence the cooling of air - to liquefy it). the precooler needs to lower the temp of air to -140 deg of celsius, or so... in a fraction of second

[RedDwarfIV]

actually, it is not an engine cooling system, what they are testing. they are testing cooling of air entering the engine when the vehicle is still in the atmosphere and the engine is working in the air-breathing mode (in a way similar to jet engines, but as it is a rocket engine, it needs liquid oxygen - hence the cooling of air - to liquefy it). the precooler needs to lower the temp of air to -140 deg of celsius, or so... in a fraction of second

You have just described in detail \'an engine cooling system\'.

[Amram]

You have just described in detail \'an engine cooling system\'.

considering all he discusses is the cooling of the oxidant, and says nothing of the engine itself? What he has described is an Intercooler

The system isn\'t there to directly influence the engines, such as by cooling them off, which would indeed make it an engine cooling system. It is there to help feed them, by cooling their oxidizer to a liquid form allowing them to run.

Reaction\'s Sabre engine relies on a heat exchanger capable of cooling incoming air to -140C, to provide liquid oxygen (LOX) for mixing with hydrogen to provide jet thrust during atmospheric flight before switching to tanked LOX when in space.

Reaction insists the heat exchanger works, but trials set to run to year-end are needed to demonstrate to waiting investors that the technology is viable.

sourced form http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/spaceplane-engine-tests-under-way-361501/ and that would be the test that were talking about.

[mincespy]

You could say that the cost of this is...

*Puts on sunglasses*

...Astronomical.

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Agamemnon]

You have just described in detail \'an engine cooling system\'.

no, i haven\'t... an engine cooling system cools down an engine - to prevent overheating, etc... this thing - the precooler - cools down the air entering the engine and liquefies it... the air has to be liquid because a rocket engine uses liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen and can\'t work without liquid oxygen...

[RC1062]

You could say that the cost of this is...

*Puts on sunglasses*

...Astronomical.

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

But it will bring the cost of spaceflight considerably though...

*Puts on sunglasses, \'cause he might now make it to space*

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[RedDwarfIV]

Impression I got was that it cooled to air to well below zero degrees C because otherwise the air going through the engine [at Mach 5] would melt it.

[Agamemnon]

Impression I got was that it cooled to air to well below zero degrees C because otherwise the air going through the engine [at Mach 5] would melt it.

the engine will have an engine cooling system as well - but it is known how to build one... this thing - the precooler - is a new system - nobody built anything like this before - and thus it need extensive testing - and that is what\'s going on right now... (and it is a crucial part of the engine, because without the aforementioned liquid oxygen, it won\'t be able to work)

[RedDwarfIV]

the engine will have an engine cooling system as well - but it is known how to build one... this thing - the precooler - is a new system - nobody built anything like this before - and thus it need extensive testing - and that is what\'s going on right now... (and it is a crucial part of the engine, because without the aforementioned liquid oxygen, it won\'t be able to work)

I guess BBC News went and Did Not Do The Research.

[Agamemnon]

the best sources of info about skylon i know of, are the two links i posted before... the discussion thread in the nsf forum is a little bit more technical, i guess - but, if you are interested in the technical side of the project, i think that is a good place to start... quite a lot of information over there...

[HOC]

hence the cooling of air - to liquefy it

The air isn\'t actually liquefied, by the way. It remains gaseous. (My Dad was standing over my shoulder as I read this, and he pointed out your slight mistake- yes, my Dad is epic like that)

[Spearka]

i really like this, pity that only private companies are funding this and not, lets say...THE GOVERNMENT

[Nibb31]

But it will bring the cost of spaceflight considerably though...

Not necessarily.

The cost of space flight is more a matter of volume than a matter of technology. SSTO and reusable launchers are expensive to develop and maintain, moreso than mass produced disposable launchers. An engine like Skylon\'s will cost much more than the dumb disposable turbopump rocket engines or SRBs that are used on Atlas, Falcon, Proton or Ariane. Competition in the market and mass production bring the costs down.

The extra cost is only worthwhile when launch volumes are high enough, and much they will have to be higher than today. And launch volumes will only increase when some applications are made worthwhile by a lower cost. It\'s a chicken and egg scenario.

At any rate, we are reaching a plateau in terms of comsats. Households tend to use more and more land lines, DSL or digital for TV, and GEO orbits have too much latency for bidirectional communication. If anything, the satellite market is going to shrink in the upcoming years and costs are still too high for space tourism.

So really, it\'s hard to imagine the costs to orbit coming down soon.

[HOC]

Skylon is estimated to lower the cost of delivering payloads to orbit from £15,000/kg to £650/kg. That\'s over 23 times less!

These space planes are also estimated to be reusable up to 200 times so the cost of the engines themselves aren\'t that big a deal, when you think about having to build a whole new rocket each time you want to deliver your cargo.

So no, I disagree Nibb, the cost to orbit is going to come down massively. The need for it however, as you have pointed out, is another story.

[Kryten]

Skylon is estimated to lower the cost of delivering payloads to orbit from £15,000/kg to £650/kg. That\'s over 23 times less!

They said the same sort of stuff about the shuttle.

[Endeavour]

Skylon is estimated to lower the cost of delivering payloads to orbit from £15,000/kg to £650/kg. That\'s over 23 times less!

How much payload can that plane carry? Its different than a rocket because it needs to be able to fly. And it doesn\'t appear as though the payload can have a high volume or mass. I can\'t get onto the site that was linked, but this reminds me of the Dreamchaser spaceplane that I read about. Same thing?

[Kryten]

I can\'t get onto the site that was linked, but this reminds me of the Dreamchaser spaceplane that I read about. Same thing?

Completely different. Dream Chaser is a small lifting body that launches like a normal capsule (on an Atlas V), and makes a gliding landing like a miniature shuttle. It\'s funded by NASA under COTS, and is rapidly progressing towards flight hardware. Skylon uses much more speculative (ie dubious) technology, and is basically a lot of technical drawings right now.

The supposed payload capacity\'s 15 tons, though it should be said that the design is much larger than it looks (roughly the size of the AN-225).

EDIT:

i really like this, pity that only private companies are funding this and not, lets say...THE GOVERNMENT

It\'s being funded by ESA... Corporations wouldn\'t touch anything simultaneously this expensive and this speculative with a ten foot barge pole.

[Agamemnon]

iirc, esa is not really funding the project... they have a small grant provided by esa, but most of the money are from private investors and as loans (at least this was said by someone from rel)... as well, they stated the private investors will provide more money for the next phases of testing if the current phase will be successfully finished...

there was some info about this... could be found on the internet, i guess... but right now i am not sure where - perhaps on the nsf discussion thread...

well... something like that

btw:

rel has a side project - or how can i call it - if the skylon/sabre engine will be successful, they plan to use the technology for a hypersonic airliner, hehe who knows...