Xannari's Jool-5 Kethane low mass attempt!

[Xannari Ferrows]

How's it goin'? I'm back for more! Today I will sit down and do the entire challenge again, but with a small craft instead of my previous challenger. As usual, I will upload in parts, so check back every so often for updates. I'll try not to fall asleep this time...

Before we get started, let me introduce you to the challenger. Carson Kerman built it with his own two hands!

Even more planning went into this than the last. It doesn't have the crazy insane Delta-V either, but it does have more than enough.

Mass: 11389.7 Kilograms / 12.555 tons

Parts: 98

Cost: 53,724

Kerbal: Carson

Game version: 0.90

Launches: 1

Mods: Kethane

Mods(2): Kerbal Engineer Redux

Refueling: Kethane only

Delta-V: 10,769 m/s on a single burn (no refueling done)

Extra crafts: None

Any additional information I need? Let me know!

Alright! Cue the banjo!

Without further adieu, I present to you: The first album of many to come. Enjoy!

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UPDATE: Finished Jool transfer and a landing a Vall. Here is the album:

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UPDATE: Vall has been left, and Tylo greeted. Here are the details:

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UPDATE: Mission complete! All other moons done, as well as the transfer back to Kerbin. Here's how it went down:

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Edited February 18, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Deutherius]

Very cool I have one question though, why do your nuke engines have 75 kN of thrust each? The vanilla nukes only produce 60 kN. Is that a feature of the kethane mod?

Edit: The deltaV too O.o With 4 tons of fuel and 800 Isp, it should be more like 3k with full mass and 3.3k without kethane. Does KER account for the kethane that can be converted into liquid fuel/oxidizer in its calculations? Because if not, your nukes seem to have about 2800 vac. Isp O.o

Edited February 15, 2015 by Deutherius

[Xannari Ferrows]

I'm glad you asked^^

The reason why is quite... complicated. Does the following make any sense?

;Nclr;=Ral-Vac//isp//---Resu=Nclr•est//N, isp//Ral==;Dv(//Nclr) = Thrust and Isp = Resu•Nclr.

Did any of that make sense? I hate to say it, but that is really the only explanation I have.

[Randazzo]

I'm glad you asked^^

The reason why is quite... complicated. Does the following make any sense?

;Nclr;=Ral-Vac//isp//---Resu=Nclr•est//N, isp//Ral==;Dv(//Nclr) = Thrust and Isp = Resu•Nclr.

Did any of that make sense? I hate to say it, but that is really the only explanation I have.

So.... you modded the engines cfg file? There's no amount of designing you can do in-game to make them provide more thrust than they provide.

Two LV-N's mounted directly to the fuel tank by itself provides only 4450 Delta V and weighs 9.3 tons.

At any rate, you can't do the Jool-5 challenge with the Kethane Mod.

Rain - Parade

Edited February 16, 2015 by Randazzo

[Xannari Ferrows]

No modding was done. This equation was just run through the games' physics engine, courtesy of Mariyate. (Thank you!) I should be thanking you!

Anyway, I suppose Flight Engineer didn't exactly like the sudden change and got confused, thus changing it's displays to account for this "illusion" type deal.

I could run through my calculators again if you'd like. In fact, I'll prepare the variables:

EDIT:

Vex=;"21,582";

MfMeR=;"0.4999;

Dv=Vex•MfMeR

Dv=10,769 m/s

You do know that there is a Kethane category, right?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Randazzo]

No modding was done. This equation was just run through the games' physics engine, courtesy of Mariyate. (Thank you!) I should be thanking you!

Anyway, I suppose Flight Engineer didn't exactly like the sudden change and got confused, thus changing it's displays to account for this "illusion" type deal.

I could run through my calculators again if you'd like. In fact, I'll prepare the variables:

Vex=;"input1";

MfMeR=;"input2";

Dv=Vex•MfMeR

Print "Dv=";Dv;" m/s"

You do know that there is a Kethane category, right?

I do now. I stopped at seeing it in the prohibited list.

You're still using modified engines regardless of how you've done it. Two LV-N's simply do not produce that amount of Delta V nor that amount of thrust.

[Deutherius]

No modding was done. This equation was just run through the games' physics engine, courtesy of Mariyate. (Thank you!) I should be thanking you!

Anyway, I suppose Flight Engineer didn't exactly like the sudden change and got confused, thus changing it's displays to account for this "illusion" type deal.

I could run through my calculators again if you'd like. In fact, I'll prepare the variables:

EDIT:

Vex=;"21,582";

MfMeR=;"0.4999;

Dv=Vex•MfMeR

Dv=10,769 m/s

You do know that there is a Kethane category, right?

Did the equation change how anything in the game behaves (What "sudden change" did the KER not like? Its displaying values in accordance with your description of the craft)? If yes, then that's modding, AFAIK. If not, then I should be able to reproduce your results with the same craft design in my own game, with only KER and Kethane mod installed. Which I was not able to, however I tried. Same goes to your first Jool 5 mission (the one where the lander had over 16k deltaV). I tried, really hard, but the numbers just don't add up. Well, unless I change the LV-N's Isp to ridiculous levels.

Now I haven't started crawling in the KSP or Unity's code just yet, but I do a lot of programming, so I might have the mental capacity to understand - just provide me with a link or an explanation that makes sense. And if you don't want to be talking code with me, then let's talk physics - the equations you used gotta have basis in physics, right?

Also, who or what is Mariyate? You seem to be the only one referring to her/it, and she/it seems to be important to this issue.

I'm glad you asked^^

The reason why is quite... complicated. Does the following make any sense?

;Nclr;=Ral-Vac//isp//---Resu=Nclr•est//N, isp//Ral==;Dv(//Nclr) = Thrust and Isp = Resu•Nclr.

Did any of that make sense? I hate to say it, but that is really the only explanation I have.

I liked both of your Jool 5 missions... But with an explanation like that, this does seem like cheating and evading the answer.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Deutherius
typo, wording

[Randazzo]

Also, who or what is Mariyate? You seem to be the only one referring to her/it, and she/it seems to be important to this issue.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-25-KSP-Interstellar-(Magnetic-Nozzles-ISRU-Revamp)-Version-0-13?p=1578337&viewfull=1#post1578337

[Deutherius]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-25-KSP-Interstellar-(Magnetic-Nozzles-ISRU-Revamp)-Version-0-13?p=1578337&viewfull=1#post1578337

...ok. I didn't look that deep.

[Xannari Ferrows]

I appreciate all of your concerns. I wish I really had better explanations. Truly. Although, I could go dig around in the save data and find some key points. I'll be right back.

Found it. Here's what the physics engine was doing:

@FCLC

IF TTR==%MTR THEN GOTO @NPS

@NPS

;Nclr;=Ral-Vac//isp//

---Resu=Nclr•est//N, isp//

Ral==;Dv(//Nclr) = Thrust and Isp = Resu•Nclr.

IF Thrust and Isp==K1, K2 THEN GOTO @FCLC

IF Thrust and Isp==K3, K4 THEN GOTO @PHSC

Believe it or not. The CFG is intact and kept as is. This is really all I can say, so I'll leave it up to you to decide what you think.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Xannari Ferrows

[Randazzo]

I appreciate all of your concerns. I wish I really had batter explanations. Truly.

You don't require a better explanation, you've already explained that you altered your game in some way to improve the thrust and Delta V of the LV-N engines. How it was done really isn't important, and doesn't change the fact that it is modifying the game. You're being intentionally disingenuous about it to avoid admission.

And it only matters since you're claiming to have completed a challenge. The missions on their own are pretty neat.