Croatia can into space!

[viktor19]

Or can she?

Anyway, if you haven't heard of it, it is a small country in southeastern Europe, Google it!

"Swiss Space Systems" or S3 if you will, has announced that zero G tests will start this year, and launches from spaceport (that should be built in a remote area!) will start in 2018.

Knowing our media and politicians (they are still in 1945.) I seriously doubt this will work but I wanted to hear your opinion.

[lajoswinkler]

As a fellow Croatian, I can confirm this is BS of insane magnitude. It's something the press kept pulling out during the last years every time there was a shortage of actual news. It's not the first time this is being waved in front of gullible morons around here.

I was actually thinking if I should report about this, but I thought to myself it was too embarrasing, so thank you for doing it.

Croatia is still in recession. Its economy is not nearly as bad as the Greek one. Even though its standard of living is in the top ones considering the southeastern Europe, it is way below the European Union average. The only way we could get a spaceport is if someone else were to invest in it. Given the fact that we have such inept government (and soon a criminal one will probably replace it), such high corruption that we aren't capable of pulling the bare Union funds properly, we can't really finish some basic projects like thermal power plants and strategical bridges, let alone a freaking spaceport.

Our airforce uses MIG planes so old and bad that some of them fell from the sky in the recent years. Our only rockets are occasional silver iodide ones launched by some Joes. Should I say more?

But let's consider all that solved. Let's say Swiss Space Systems wants to invest here and build a spaceport in Udbina. Do they know that there are other countries in the range of the rocket? Do they expect we could just throw first stages over Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia&Herzegovina, Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey?

(a bit outdated, but you get the jist)

This is Europe. It's not Kazakhstan with hundreds of kilometres of nothing or French Guijana with an ocean behind it.

There are national parks nearby, too.

What is this "Swiss Space Systems" anyway? LOL

ps: Here's the article. Nothing special, as expected. It will probably end with some small high tech factory in the middle of nowhere.

http://www.s-3.ch/en/home/2015/02/16/official-inauguration-of-swiss-space-systems-croatia

Edited February 16, 2015 by lajoswinkler

[Bill Phil]

Why they can't have people helping out at ESA, I can't grasp. Europe in general is too packed together for space ports. That's why there aren't many, if any.

[LordFerret]

You say it's BS... but I wouldn't rule it out just yet. The fact the Swiss were willing to step into the venture (along with others) says there's more at play here than you realize.

http://www.s-3.ch/en/home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Space_Systems

http://spacenews.com/startup-spotlight-swiss-space-systems-s3/

http://www.parabolicarc.com/tag/swiss-space-systems/

http://space.epfl.ch/page-93446-en.html

[lajoswinkler]

Anyone willing to throw such money into this bottomless, corrupted pit full of bickering people is, for my standards, a nutter. I live here. The current state of economy is such that young people are emigrating like mice are abandoning a sinking ship.

Economy aside, how to solve other problems I've mentioned?

[viktor19]

Anyone willing to throw such money into this bottomless, corrupted pit full of bickering people is, for my standards, a nutter. I live here. The current state of economy is such that young people are emigrating like mice are abandoning a sinking ship.

Economy aside, how to solve other problems I've mentioned?

Change of mentality. If you ask me, it's practically impossible.

[PlonioFludrasco]

As I have just read, they are studying an air launched spaceplane design, with the spaceplane dropped at altitude by a modified liner (they plan an A300) that carries a disposable 3rd stage to a suborbital trajectory.

If they really succeed in that, I don't see the point in building a spaceport completely from scratch. They can use an actual existing airfield, just add a couple of hangars and an assembly facility and maybe a new small runway to land the spaceplane if they are not allowed to use the main one. This way, they have plenty of fuel already avaiable and manutention for the liner, plus they won't have to build new nav aids and ILS , necessary to navigate it.

[Nibb31]

Croatia is a beautiful country. Just wanted to say it

However, I really don't understand why a Swiss company would want to launch from Croatia instead of... well... Switzerland. Launching East over the Lake Geneva and the Alps would be much better, and the latitude is pretty much the same as Croatia.

Neither are really good places to launch, but since they want to air-launch from an Airbus, location isn't really important.

[cicatrix]

Croatia is a beautiful country. Just wanted to say it

However, I really don't understand why a Swiss company would want to launch from Croatia instead of... well... Switzerland. Launching East over the Lake Geneva and the Alps would be much better, and the latitude is pretty much the same as Croatia.

Neither are really good places to launch, but since they want to air-launch from an Airbus, location isn't really important.

Read my blog about transportation of rocket parts. This is a very serious problem you should consider before picking a launch site. If everything was only decided only by elevation above the sea level we would have a space center in Himalaya.

Besides, elevation is not nothing. Actually, launching from 0m ASL is cheaper from the equator than from 5,000 ASL from Europe.

What concerns Croatia itself.. well, I'm sure the investors considered several locations and somehow this was their choice. You don't ask ESA why they have a launch site in South America, do you?

[Hrv123]

What? No way ever to hapen, it would endanger some last beawer and group of three green fanatics would stop it, or it would be seen from beach and group of three landowners would stop it, or painting of fence toward lanching pad would cost like rest of entire space program, or to get all needed permits on any level would last till 2045 as all locals will try ato buy and resell land on what to be build, couple of time etc... Only thing that will ever go from Croatia toward space is fart.

EDIT: In any case if it have to be in Europe Swis can mostlikelly buy an island entirely in Greece or something.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Hrv123

[LordFerret]

Anyone willing to throw such money into this bottomless, corrupted pit full of bickering people is, for my standards, a nutter. I live here. The current state of economy is such that young people are emigrating like mice are abandoning a sinking ship.

Economy aside, how to solve other problems I've mentioned?

A project such as this could bring jobs, and with those jobs a boost to the economy... not to mention schools for training for future generations. Wouldn't you like to see that?

As I have just read, they are studying an air launched spaceplane design, with the spaceplane dropped at altitude by a modified liner (they plan an A300) that carries a disposable 3rd stage to a suborbital trajectory.

If they really succeed in that, I don't see the point in building a spaceport completely from scratch. They can use an actual existing airfield, just add a couple of hangars and an assembly facility and maybe a new small runway to land the spaceplane if they are not allowed to use the main one. This way, they have plenty of fuel already avaiable and manutention for the liner, plus they won't have to build new nav aids and ILS , necessary to navigate it.

They mentioned building a spaceport... but they didn't say exactly where, or whether or not they would use and convert existing facilities.

Croatia is a beautiful country. Just wanted to say it

However, I really don't understand why a Swiss company would want to launch from Croatia instead of... well... Switzerland. Launching East over the Lake Geneva and the Alps would be much better, and the latitude is pretty much the same as Croatia.

Neither are really good places to launch, but since they want to air-launch from an Airbus, location isn't really important.

Switzerland is land locked, Croatia is not. The fact Croatia has sea lane access to the Mediterranean Sea could be a factor. You could write to S3 and ask them about this ... considering their involvement with schools and student programs, you'd likely get an answer.

Read my blog about transportation of rocket parts. This is a very serious problem you should consider before picking a launch site. If everything was only decided only by elevation above the sea level we would have a space center in Himalaya.

Besides, elevation is not nothing. Actually, launching from 0m ASL is cheaper from the equator than from 5,000 ASL from Europe.

What concerns Croatia itself.. well, I'm sure the investors considered several locations and somehow this was their choice. You don't ask ESA why they have a launch site in South America, do you?

Very good point. Also, the places where Russia launches from, and China.

[lajoswinkler]

A project such as this could bring jobs, and with those jobs a boost to the economy... not to mention schools for training for future generations. Wouldn't you like to see that?

It's not that I don't want that, it's the fact that it won't happen. Think of the worst bureaucracy in the movies and multiply it by ten, and add bickering people and organizations willing to obstruct everything that could potentially help the economy. That's Croatia.

They mentioned building a spaceport... but they didn't say exactly where, or whether or not they would use and convert existing facilities.

It would be near Udbina in a region called Lika (where Nikola Tesla was born).

[Hrv123]

Was on TV report on the matter, local gov. is all for it, except Udbina airport is in military property, and ministry of defence faild to privatize all that abandoned military bases at coast all this decades for tourism so going to give this out yeah. People comment was that they dont like it becouse it would destroy their way of life (...) and that its oposition politicians baloon dividing people (...). If all this was not so sad I would laugh my ass...

[Dartguy]

You are missing a verb in the title of the thread.

[cicatrix]

You are missing a verb in the title of the thread.

LOL, actually he isn't

[LordFerret]

It's not that I don't want that, it's the fact that it won't happen. Think of the worst bureaucracy in the movies and multiply it by ten, and add bickering people and organizations willing to obstruct everything that could potentially help the economy. That's Croatia.

It would be near Udbina in a region called Lika (where Nikola Tesla was born).

That is a shame, because such a thing really could bring a major change to the people as far as jobs and opportunity. You need more voices, and you need to be positive about the potential, otherwise you're basically closing the door before it even gets a chance to open.

Very fitting!

[lajoswinkler]

We should start with zero G airplane flights, as it was announced. If EU bureaucracy allows it, in the next couple of years there will be such flights here. It's a start.