Smallest SSTO with orange tank payload [STOCK 1.0.5]

[Kergarin]

I challenge you to: 

Build the smallest SSTO to bring a full 36 ton orange tank to Kerbin Orbit.

 

We will have three levels: 

- Normal: bring up the full orange tank from the runway to orbit, and return your empty SSTO to runway.

- Pro: do normal level AND then launch your SSTO with empty cargo from runway to orbit, pick up the full orange tank in orbit, and return your SSTO with full orange tank as cargo to runway.

You may recover your vessel and launch again from Spaceplane hangar, before doing the second launch. WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING TO YOUR SSTO, except for removing the orange tank payload.

- Master: do complete Pro level without refueling or recovering your vessel at any time. A touch and go with at least two wheels on KSC runway before second ascend will qualify.

 

For each level we will have two rankings: 

- lowest Number of parts 

- lowest starting weight

All values including complete cargo and all cargo attached parts!!!! 

 

This is your cargo: 

- Rockomax Jumbo-64 Fuel Tank (full!) 

- Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port Sr.

 

 

Rules: 

- no mods (informational mods are ok) 

- horizotal launching SSTO spaceplanes only

- single stage, return with same parts as on launch (except orange tank payload) 

- the payload has to be connected to a docking port Sr.

- no fuel transfer from the orange tank, disabled crossfeed on the docking port

- You may add extra parts to payload like aerodynamical or RCS parts, as long as those parts are fixed to the payload and stay fixed to it all the time.

- Do not add engines to the payload.

- Do not use RCS on payload to achive or change orbit. They are only for docking/undocking!

- You SSTO has to reach a stable orbit of at least 70X70km before releasing or fetching payload.

- takes series of screenshots from every part of flight or do a video. Resources Window always open!

Additional Pro level rules: 

- you must have at least two or more RCS Thrusters of any kind and at least one or more monopropellant resources of any kind. (because this challenge ist about SSTOs, not docking skills ) 

 

 

Rankings: 

Normal

- Lowest part count: 

1. Orange Tank SSTO by Nefrums 32 parts [best open drone] 

2. SSTO by Nich 40 parts [best closed drone] 

3. Z2 Winglift by Kergarin 44 parts [close d drone] 

4. KSS Mk3 by Hodari 94 parts [best closed manned]

- Lowest weight: 

1. Orange Tank SSTO by Nefrums 69.4 t  [lightest open drone]

2. SSTO by Nich 99.1 t [lightest closed drone] 

3. Z2 Winglift by Kergarin 102.3 t [closed drone] 

4.  KSS Mk3 by Hodari 178.0 t [lightest closed manned]

 

Pro

???

 

Master

- Lowest part count:

1. Z2D Winglift by Kergarin 44 parts [best closed drone]

2. Orange Tank Return Mk2 by Nefrums 55 parts [closed drone]

3. Orange Tank Return Mk4 by Nefrums 59 parts [closed drone] 

4. SSTO2 'Hydra' Mk3 by Teutooni 65 parts [closed drone]

5. Orange Tank Return by Nefrums 66 parts [closed drone]

6. Z-3 Commuter Mk.2 by Val 77 parts [closed drone] 

7. Z-3 Commuter Mk.1 by Val 82 parts [closed drone] 

- Lowest weight: 

1. Orange Tank Return Mk4 by Nefrums
96.7t [lightest closed drone]

2.  Z-3 Commuter Mk.2 by Val 115.6t [closed drone]

3. Orange Tank Return Mk2 by Nefrums 126.9t [closed drone]

4. Z2D Winglift by Kergarin 137.5t [closed drone]  

5. Z-3 Commuter Mk.1 by Val 143.9t [closed drone]  

6. Orange Tank Return by Nefrums 149.5t [closed drone]

7. SSTO2 'Hydra' Mk3 by Teutooni
158.2t [closed drone]

 

good luck 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kergarin

[Jetski]

Interesting, I'll give is a shot tonight.  I'm not particularly good at larger spaceplanes, but maybe I can get a level 1 out of it   Just to be clear, level 2 is to go back and fetch it from orbit?  Can we refuel with a ground truck to do the turnaround?  Otherwise it's a SSTOTwice, right?  Also, I don't know if I can make anything these days without KER (even though it's useless for jets), would informational mods be acceptable?

[Evanitis]

Can we add extra parts to the payload?

We'll obviously need a docking port on it, that's for sure, but I was thinking about a nosecone if it's externally mounted. Or maybe an RCS system with a probe core.

[Kergarin]

Thanks for your interest! 

I will edit the rules soon to be more detailed!

 

Before doing the second part of level 2, you may recover your vessel and launch again from the hangar, so that it is refueled. But the only thing you may change in the hangar for the second part of level 2 is deleting the cargo.

The goal of level 2 is building a SSTO that's so well balanced that it can launch and land with and without heavy cargo.

I thinks it's impossible to build one, that can start twice without refueling at the ground. But if someone can do, that would count als ultimate level 3 

 

Yes the payload will have a docking port and thrusters, so you don't need them on your SSTO. I will just take some screenshots and post the exact payload in first thread.

(edit: see first post, you may choose if payload or SSTO has RCS) 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Kergarin

[Evanitis]

6 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Yes the payload will have a docking port and thrusters, so you don't need them on your SSTO. I will just take some screenshots and post the exact payload in first thread.

Actually, I didn't want to put RCS on my payload, I was only asking if we are allowed to make it heavier by adding some utility to it. A nosecone is a good example for that - it's not needed if someone puts the whole thing into a cargobay, but externally mounting it would be a fun option.

[Kergarin]

I think a nosecone would be ok, if it is and stays fixed to the payload all the time.

[Kergarin]

I have edited the details in the first post.

Any other questions or suggestions? 

Good luck! 

[Kergarin]

Just added a third category 

Lowest price

[Nich]

Give me a badge level 3 is definitely doable

[Kergarin]

Ok 

I will create a badge as soon as possible, maybe tomorrow!

 

Here we go, my entry for normal level:

Z2 Winglift SSTO: 44 parts, 102.3 tons, price 132.803

Ascend was not perfect, but still managed to get to orbit 

 

 

 

Updated rules. Informational mods are allowed.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Kergarin

[Nich]

This was originally designed for 42 t payload and 2 cargo bays so there is quite a bit of fuel left and the wing had too much AOI.  99t 40 parts.  It looks like the designers came up with the MK3 parks just to get orange tanks in orbit with a poor assent.  Once I get a badge I am going to expand it to get level 3

 

[PacThePhoenix]

Gonna have fun with this challenge soon enough (evil laughter ).

[Kergarin]

@Nich: impressive doing it with just 5 engines! 

But to match the rules, it would need a RCS system on the craft or on the cargo. How did you get it out of the cargobay?

Or we could say,  that RCS is not needed for first level. I have to think about that. (I will be at 39 parts without it ) 

You all can make suggestions if you would like RCS in the rules or not.

@PacThePhoenix: 

I'm excited 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Kergarin

[Nefrums]

It is possible but harder to maneuver without RCS, I don't think it should be required.

It would also be hard to determine how much RCS and fuel you need to add for it to qualify, is one truster block wo fuel enough?  

[eddiew]

Interesting challenge... can I suggest a second category for manned vehicles? Right now you're guaranteed 100% drones on the leaderboard

[Coga19000]

I'm generally terrible at cargo SSTOs, but I think I found an interesting loophole to the rules that can get me out of this. But just to make sure, you mentioned that we cannot put engines in the payload, but we can put a nosecone on the orange tank. So namely, how many... Aerodynamics... can we include on the payload?

[Kergarin]

3 hours ago, Nefrums said:

It is possible but harder to maneuver without RCS, I don't think it should be required.

It would also be hard to determine how much RCS and fuel you need to add for it to qualify, is one truster block wo fuel enough?  

I think it should not be required for normal level.

But I'm afraid, it will lead to a frustrating number of quickloads, if everybody is forced to fetch the tank in pro level without RCS if you want to be high ranked.

What about at least 2 thrusters and one tank of any kind, as a rule for pro level? I think this would be fair to everyone, since this a contest about building SSTOs and not about orbital maneuvering. 

 

2 hours ago, eddiew said:

Interesting challenge... can I suggest a second category for manned vehicles? Right now you're guaranteed 100% drones on the leaderboard

I will highlight it in the ranking, if it was a drone or manned. So you can see who is the best in both categories.  Else it would be to many ranking lists I think.

1 hour ago, Coga19000 said:

So namely, how many... Aerodynamics... can we include on the payload?

I understand what you are planning 

I will have to think about this. But I'm afraid we have to allow it, if we don't want all planes to have the same base design. 

What do the others think about this? 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Kergarin

[Nefrums]

Allowing lift surfaces on the payload makes it easier get balanced CoM/CoL both with and without cargo.

I'm for allowing it!

 

 

[EvermoreAlpaca]

34 minutes ago, Nefrums said:

Allowing lift surfaces on the payload makes it easier get balanced CoM/CoL both with and without cargo.

I'm for allowing it!

 

 

Or you can slap an extra pair of elevons on in reverse and land backwards!

[Evanitis]

51 minutes ago, Nefrums said:

Allowing lift surfaces on the payload makes it easier get balanced CoM/CoL both with and without cargo.

I'm for allowing it!

Indeed. Though I believe control surfaces (or whatever) added to the payload should still count for the entry craft's mass and part-count. Otherwise I could just add all lift (or even the thrust) that the lifter vehicle needs besides lifting itself.

[Nich]

To get the payload out all you have to do is rock the ship backwards and forwards and the deck of the cargo bay will push it out.  As for RCS it shouldn't be required for level 1 or level 2.  I see how you could dock the payload without RCS in a cargo bay but it would be VERY challenging.

I have been experimenting with an external orange tank but the stiffness is just not there in the SR docking port.  Any movement and it starts flopping all over the place

Edited February 22, 2016 by Nich

[Kergarin]

Just updated rules and rankings.

Please check if everyone is fine with that 

@Nich please check if engineer's report in SPH shows 99.0 or 99.1t 

 

1 hour ago, Nich said:

I have been experimenting with an external orange tank but the stiffness is just not there in the SR docking port.  Any movement and it starts flopping all over the place

You may use struts, but they won't help on landing. 

Even landing with the full orange tank inside the cargo bay is very difficult.

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Kergarin

[Nich]

My bad your right engineer report say 99.1t map view says 99.06t

[Nefrums]

Here is my 69.4 t  plane:

Without the cargo it flies like a brick.  Landing was a bit challenging

 

 

[Coga19000]

Splendid! Now, let's let the madness begin!

Actually, I now have two different variations in mind. The original is probably more logical, and definitely easier, but I'll make sure the second one is also possible (also giving you another hint on what I'm thinking): The SSTO has to land intact... But does it have to land... in one piece?